Are you a good person?

Quote: MathExtremist

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
-- Keyser Soze

Keyser Soze only in film fiction. In reality, it is from the Frenchman Charles Baudelaire in the 1800s, "Mes chers frères, n’oubliez jamais, quand vous entendrez vanter le progrès des lumières, que la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu’il n’existe pas!"

This reminds me a bit of that phony Eleanor Roosevelt "quote" that Ayecarumba uses in his sig line. That one was also from a film where it was attributed to her as a joke.

Quote: Face

Babs completely smashed it out of the park already. I'll repost so you see it this time.



This is it. /thread.


You got off cheap. Money is nothing. It comes, and it goes. Who you are, THAT'S the treasure. THAT'S the value. YOUR value. Preserve it. Protect it. And continue to display it with strength and courage.

I'd disagree with Babs slightly. I wouldn't say the cheat wins if he embitters you. Likely, he doesn't care one way or the other. More importantly, we shouldn't care what he wants or how he feels, as these are things beyond our control. What we can control (to some degree) is our reaction to things.

I don't have time to find the quote, but Marcus Aurelius said something like: somebody acts upon you. You have a negative reaction to it. This causes you to suffer, or feel harmed. Remove the negative reaction, and you remove the harm.

The Bronx tale quote is great.

As to why it's good to be a good person, I guess I'm repeating myself, but the best answers are 1) The version of "karma" articulated by Romes earlier in the thread, in a way that I can't improve upon.

2) It's just better. You can be a greedy person, and a slave to desire and either 1) cheat and steal successfully and temporarily satiate your greed, which will quickly return. 2) Get caught, and face negative consequences. Plus, you'll likely experience a lot of anxiety worrying about being caught.

Or, you can not be a greedy person. Not be governed by greed. Not feel that anxiety. Spend that energy on something like building positive relationships, or improving yourself.

Quote: Wizard

It's a great show. Yes, the boy in the scene is Saul. I too interpret it as a defining moment in his decision to be a wolf, as opposed to a sheep.

Nevertheless, you see through the show conflicts between good and evil within Saul. He usually chooses evil, even when good is clearly the better option. However, he has a soft spot for old people and seems to truly like to help them.

I'm still waiting for one of the many people who voted that it's better to be good to explain how in my moment of darkness here.

So.the half-book I wrote you in response to that said nothing to you?

Your clip shows the underside of good being crapped on. Goes back to values. If money is the only measure of value to you, then be a bad wolf. The scammer won in the clip, the scammer won over you, crap on everybody from here on out just like Saul.

The other side of that is, no one can trust you, love you, depend on you, be your friend, or respect you. None of that matters to you, because you're all about the money and using people. Hire friends and sex partners, because you won't have either of their own volition. Die rich and alone.

I do NOT want to make this about politics, but Trump is a good example. Where are the many, many people who've worked with him or for him, invested with him, know him well? Why aren't they all over the news and the campaign vouching for him? Because he has none to support him; those who speak for him are being paid to do it. Those that know him have sued him, denounced him, or stayed silent at best, including his first 2 wives, who know a lot they're not saying. Is that your ideal life? It probably is to the guy who scammed you.

Not teh first candidate to buy an office as a result of buying praise and buying silence.

Scammer does not give a hoot about his victims mind or values, only their money.

Saul does not like representing old people he likes representing clients.

Marcus Aurelis, Epictetus, ... I'm too sleepy right now to think. Perhaps I'll drop a tab of vitamin C and .

When I was young I would peak when playing Marco Polo.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NXorTmEQjgI

Mod edit: NSFW. Kids dropping fbombs and smack. Thug life garbarge.

Quote: MrV

Here's a "goodness" test.

You meet someone, fall in love, and marry.

You vow to be together "for better or worse, until death do us part."

Sometime later, you ask for a divorce.

What about that vow you took?

Doesn't your violating it reflect on your moral character?

By definition, can someone who seeks a divorce EVER again be considered "good?"

I think good people can be ill-suited to each other and only find out after they marry. I don't hold divorce itself in the same light as some of these other examples. An honest break is better than grudgingly staying.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NXorTmEQjgI

Mod edit: NSFW. Kids dropping fbombs and smack. Thug life garbarge.

Is dissapoint none of them got sunglasses or a joint.

Quote: MrV

What about that vow you took?

Doesn't your violating it reflect on your moral character?

By definition, can someone who seeks a divorce EVER again be considered "good?"

Of course, and here's why. Anyone, priest or official, who performs the ceremony will ask that question. It would seem very strange if he didn't. Similarly, the bride and groom aren't going to dare to answer honestly: "No, just as long as we continue to love each other, which may cease long before either one of us is dead." So the vow is coerced, because it's part of a religious ritual, inserted as an element of custom rather than necessity (in earlier times, marriage WAS expected to be a lifetime bond, even if the husband and wife wound up wanting to kill each other). Also, realistically, people do change, and unlike in those medieval times I referred to, a couple might live for fifty or sixty years after the ceremony. Will they be the same people two, three, four decades from now? It's unrealistic to expect that, and the people they become may no longer be compatible.

I would like to see a wedding vow become standard that simply mentions that the two will strive to make each other happy.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NXorTmEQjgI

Mod edit: NSFW. Kids dropping fbombs and smack. Thug life garbarge.

That's what this whole thread is about, damn it feels good to be a gangsta like in Office Space. Those kids are hilarious. I might not have known what nsfw meant, but...

Quote: Wizard

Let's assume there is no heaven, no karma, and no afterlife.
A good person would correct the error.
A bad person would keep the extra $10.

Assuming also no police.
If I judge the small business owner is good, then I be good.
If I judge the small business owner is bad, then I be bad.
If I cannot judge and the our relationship is short termed, then I be bad.
If I cannot judge and the our relationship is long termed, then it will be complicated.

Sorry I didn't reply to this earlier, Barbara. Very good post. I also thank you for all the kind things you said about me.

I fully agree that the more sheep are in a society, the better it is. Absolutely no question about that. Games like Friend or Foe prove that on a smaller scale.

The body of your post I agree with 100%. However, a couple minor points of departure or comment.

Quote: BBB

It's not up to you whether that money will be repaid. But it is up to you whether it changes your life that it wasn't so far. Don't stop giving just because you ran afoul of a taker who ignored the implied or explicit quid pro quo. In giving we grow, individually and together; in taking we diminish.

Let me tell you about another scam I've been a victim to twice.

The first time I was in Atlanta and walking to my hotel room, which was located near a major highway. A man approaches me saying that his car broke down and he doesn't have any money on him and just desperately needs money for a tow. He makes great promises to meet me in the hotel lobby at a certain time the following evening to repay me. He says the issue isn't not having money but that he left it at home. That was the gist of it. So, I gave him the money. The next day I wait at the appointed time, and then some, for him to show up. You guessed it -- He never shows.

Fast forward about six months and I'm near the Los Angeles airport, just off the 405 Freeway. I'm supposed to pick up my dad for a flight and am way too early so I'm reading a book in a Taco Bell restaurant. A woman taps on my window and has pretty much the same story. The details are a little different and she definitely played the damsel in distress card. I'm skeptical but I didn't want the Atlanta incident to harden my heart so I give her the money. She gives me her number and a peck on the cheek. When I call the number the next day it was to some restaurant that she was previously fired from, well before finding me. The manager had no idea what became of her and seemed glad to be rid of her.

Fast forward about two years this time and I'm walking along route 40 in Baltimore outside the Old Country Buffet (where our own FrG liked to eat). A man approaches me with again the same story but with minor variations. What did I do this time? I said, "I've been a victim of this trick twice already and am not going to make it three." The man bowed his head a bit and said, "It's a shame that bad people cause good people to become jaded." This was some 20 years ago so I don't recall the words exactly, but that was the gist of it.

So, Barbara, was I wrong to say "no" that third time? Clearly my heart had become hardened over the first two incidents and, yes, I was jaded.

Quote:

Actions have consequences. If the guy is a stiff, publish his name as a welcher. Cut him off from the easy money. Sue him. That's the quid pro quo for a leech. He pays you back, retract it. But he's already earned whatever shame or notoriety that type of attention brings. (We already know stealing the bike was illegal and you've reported it) The rest of us in your society haven't earned your distrust. Moreover, we're the reason you had the money to lend in the first place.

I see now that this person is not a good person. I'm pretty sure there would be retaliation if I warned others in a public manner. This is not somebody who runs in gambling circles so a whisper campaign wouldn't reach the audience that he scams. Also, I see now this person is self destructive and absent another sucker like me coming along will probably soon suffer the consequences of his actions. So, maybe I'll just leave it up to karma, not that I believe in it.

Those are definitely scams. The police will arrest them if they're reported. Another variation is the scanner promises to mail the money to your home address, but never intends. It is just the confidence part of the scam. They'll get arrested for it for sure if they're scamming, which the police will figure out.

My ex was a total scammer always begging and lying for money. She was so bad, I changed her name to Luci on my contacts, short for Lucifer. She saw nothing wrong with lying to get what she wanted and saw sex as nothing but a tool. She would be really nice to have around if she could somehow not be a sociopath. Was told by her brother, her past drug problems were not really the past, which she denied. She lied about everything, might as well been lying about that. Every time I think about her, I hate her more and more. Can't even think of anything good about her besides her looks and sex, which was hard to come by and very expensive. She has no soul.

Quote: Wizard

Let me tell you about another scam I've been a victim to twice...

Can I offer a suggestion that allows you to be a "good" guy, but still keeps you from getting scammed?

In these type of situations ("I need money for X"), if you offer to provide the 'X' (For example, in your case, offer to call an actual tow truck, intending to pay the driver directly) instead of the money, usually a truthful man will be grateful, while the scammer will start back-peddling.

I remember one occasion, we were coming back from a morning of fishing. At the boat ramp, a gentleman approached us saying it had been a day or whatever since he last had a meal, and asked for some money to buy food.

It just so happened that we had a leftover sandwich in the cooler. So, my Dad offered it to him. His response? "Oh, no, I need some hot food!" And then he left, without the free sandwich, of course.

Quote: Joeman

...I remember one occasion, we were coming back from a morning of fishing. At the boat ramp, a gentleman approached us saying it had been a day or whatever since he last had a meal, and asked for some money to buy food.

It just so happened that we had a leftover sandwich in the cooler. So, my Dad offered it to him. His response? "Oh, no, I need some hot food!" And then he left, without the free sandwich, of course.

https://youtu.be/7rMpCud1IwQ

Quote: Joeman

I remember one occasion, we were coming back from a morning of fishing. At the boat ramp, a gentleman approached us saying it had been a day or whatever since he last had a meal, and asked for some money to buy food.

It just so happened that we had a leftover sandwich in the cooler. So, my Dad offered it to him. His response? "Oh, no, I need some hot food!" And then he left, without the free sandwich, of course.

Reminds me of a story told at the old Cheapo Vegas site. It went something like this for the review of the Gold Spike, which was a real dive at the time.

"Just outside the Gold Spike I encountered a beggar who asked for food money. I happened to have a voucher for a free breakfast from the Gold Spike on me so offered it to him. He looked at the voucher and said, "Thanks, but I'm not that hungry."

Posts about marriage and divorce have been moved to Is divorce ever justified?

Quote: Wizard

who I thought was a friend scammed me out $5,000 to $10,000, depending on how you measure it.

I'd charge you 10% of whatever anyone is about to scam you for, giving you advice not to do it, saving you 90% of your funds.

Is that good?

Not much to go on Wiz. Was it clear to both parties it was a LOAN with a agreement to pay back in a particular time? Or just reasonable time? Is less than 2 weeks reasonable or more than 2 weeks. Not knowing any of these parameters I can attempt 2 responses.

'Good' response: "Mike, I'm sorry about the loss, but when I give or loan money I don't really know the truth about their reasons for the need and I look at it as a probable loss and I can afford to help them. Mike, it wasn't your fault, you were being a good man in need. You did the right thing. We can't paint everyone this way."

'Bad' response: "You lost what? Mike, you're such a idiot for trusting anybody. I can't believe you'd just hand out money to anyone that asks. I won't even loan my Mother money. Everybody is trying to steal from you. Do what I do, hire Guido down at the docks and he'll get your money back in a week, guaranteed. That scum clown won't know who hit him, literally. You won't have to worry about nothing. Just think how good it'll feel when that creep got his for stealing from you. It always makes me feel good. Screw him. "

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Joeman

I remember one occasion, we were coming back from a morning of fishing. At the boat ramp, a gentleman approached us saying it had been a day or whatever since he last had a meal, and asked for some money to buy food.

It just so happened that we had a leftover sandwich in the cooler. So, my Dad offered it to him. His response? "Oh, no, I need some hot food!" And then he left, without the free sandwich, of course.

Reminds me of a story told at the old Cheapo Vegas site. It went something like this for the review of the Gold Spike, which was a real dive at the time.

"Just outside the Gold Spike I encountered a beggar who asked for food money. I happened to have a voucher for a free breakfast from the Gold Spike on me so offered it to him. He looked at the voucher and said, "Thanks, but I'm not that hungry."

Back in the day, the Gold Spike had the worst coffee shop in Vegas, and perhaps the country. It was also one of the cheapest. My personal story was when a friend, who had just been busted playing craps at the Horseshoe, suggested that we eat there. I objected, saying that I preferred the (then) $2 breakfast special at the Horseshoe. He told me that the Gold Spike breakfast special was only a dollar and said that it was "cheaper than food." He was right!

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

He told me that the Gold Spike breakfast special was only a dollar and said that it was "cheaper than food." He was right!

LOL. I know just what he meant.

There used to be this guy in NYC who claimed he was not a bum, he fell asleep on the subway and someone razored his wallet out of his pocket...he needed 26.18 for a ticket back to Connecticut. I wondered how much he averaged per day. Turned him down the first time because I was suspicious of it; the second time I told him "you got me already with that story" and he immediately went on to the next person.

Getting back to Saul... we all know the scammer ain't never gonna change, the father ain't never gonna change neither,.. a secretly we all cheered for Little Kid Saul for not following in his father's footsteps because money in the till would only go to a scammer.

I tend to be too trusting in most situations.... but I am learning.

FACE " You did a good thing. You helped a friend in need. To quote "A Bronx Tale",."

Come on now, admit it, do the words " NOW YOUSE CAN'T LEAVE " RING A BELL?

Speaking of scams, and moral collapses, has the PSU Mike thread from 2+2 ever been posted here? Among other things, he made a lot of money running similar hustles at the airport.

Another member calls him out on it and he comes clean about years of hardcore gambling addiction.

Engrossing read:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/michael-borovetz-i-believe-he-tried-scam-me-mccarran-airport-6-22-14-a-1454252/

Quote: Rigondeaux

Speaking of scams, and moral collapses, has the PSU Mike thread from 2+2 ever been posted here? Among other things, he made a lot of money running similar hustles at the airport.

Another member calls him out on it and he comes clean about years of hardcore gambling addiction.

Engrossing read:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/michael-borovetz-i-believe-he-tried-scam-me-mccarran-airport-6-22-14-a-1454252/

PSU Mike is a sad tragedy. He acknowledged that scamming people in airports for gambling money was not the way he was supposed to end up as he has a degree in Engineering and was supposed to have a great life. He even admitted his parents raised him right and were disgusted by how he turned into a scumbag as an adult.

Quote: Face

You got off cheap.

I think so. No matter how much it is, it could have been worse, and in fact this guy might have said to himself "could have got him for a lot more"

I was a practitioner of the 'bronx tale' theory, there was often someone at work who would try to hit you up for $10 or so. The dumbass wouldn't realize it was to his advantage to pay you back, to hit you up for more later. I realized this and wouldn't hound him; after a week or so went by you were golden on the next time he asked - 'dude, you never paid me back'. Off cheap again.

In this case enough money was involved it might have been a smarter guy?

Another way to look at this:
You are still in a much better position than the friend.
Really it wasn't so long ago that you were in financial trouble.
Instead of asking how you could be so unlucky as to lose a bike n 5000.00 you can ask how can you be so lucky as to have sold the site at a handsome profit and also to have a great family to enjoy life with.

Quote: TropicalElectri

Instead of asking how you could be so unlucky as to lose a bike n 5000.00 you can ask how can you be so lucky as to have sold the site at a handsome profit and also to have a great family to enjoy life with.

I'm not complaining about being unlucky. I win and lose these kind of sums every day in the stock market and don't even notice.

Quote: TropicalElectri

Another way to look at this:
You are still in a much better position than the friend.
Really it wasn't so long ago that you were in financial trouble.
Instead of asking how you could be so unlucky as to lose a bike n 5000.00 you can ask how can you be so lucky as to have sold the site at a handsome profit and also to have a great family to enjoy life with.

I'm fairly sure Mike realizes he's fortunate to have everything he has, but the not really the question here(what was the question? Oh ya, good person/bad person)

Another question I think is.... Should he just let it go or what?

Only he knows the answer to that question.

I think it's obvious he needs to adopt a strict NO loan policy. He should print out a wallet card explaining his no loan policy and just hand it to anyone asking. Sometimes It's hard to say no when friends ask. Why is it I always feel bad if I say no?

Perhaps a new debate or an extension of the current one for anyone who loans money to friends, associates or others. Do you charge interest? At what rate? I always do for multiple reasons including I can't borrow money for nothing from a bank, have mortgages and business loans I pay interest on and I feel it teaches responsibility.

In most cases, when someone comes to me for a personal loan, they are out of legitimate banking options. I hate seeing people go to payday lenders and such paying 100+%, but on the other hand I could be using the money to pay off 3.5-5% mortgages I have, so I should be charging something. And as the Wizard has pointed out, you are taking all the risk.

So does this make me a good person still for helping someone out? Or a bad one for making money off the situation?

Quote: AxelWolf

... Why is it I always feel bad if I say no?

I suspect it is because you could help and say, "Yes" but don't want to risk a hassle, and are watching someone else suffer as a result. If you keep in mind that it is for their own good in the long run (if that is indeed the case), hopefully, you will feel better.

Quote: Boz

So does this make me a good person still for helping someone out? Or a bad one for making money off the situation?

I think it depends on how you feel about payday lenders. Are they good or bad to you? They are doing the same thing as you, short term loans with interest.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Speaking of scams, and moral collapses, has the PSU Mike thread from 2+2 ever been posted here? Among other things, he made a lot of money running similar hustles at the airport.

Another member calls him out on it and he comes clean about years of hardcore gambling addiction.

Engrossing read:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/michael-borovetz-i-believe-he-tried-scam-me-mccarran-airport-6-22-14-a-1454252/

Classic! this was a fun one to follow when it was started.

The act of loaning money to a friend has two components, and you have to separate them out if you want to rate yourself on how "good" the act would be. First, there's the act of lending itself. Does giving up the money for whatever length of time cause you any inconvenience or hardship? Based on what you know of the person, are you fading any substantial risk of not being repaid?

Then there's the matter of interest and collateral. If you charge interest on the loan, then whether you are doing a good deed for your friend would depend on whether you would charge a stranger with the same risk profile the same interest. Are you loaning the money without collateral? Then you are absorbing the risk of default. If so, are you adjusting the interest rate you charge? Think of standard payday uncollateralized loan rates.

So ultimately, you're doing a good thing for your friend if you loan him money under terms that are better than he could get from a stranger, even if you do charge him interest or hold collateral.

Yes, you do charge interest, hopefully a pass-through amount (you're not making money off your friend, but neither are you losing it). You also have them sign a promissory note, and you agree on a repayment schedule.

Being more savvy doesn't make you less moral. If you feel you are particularly susceptible to scams, perhaps because people just see you as a target for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with becoming extra vigilant or erring on the side of not lending money, or never lending money at all. If someone very close to you is really in desperate need, you can always just give them money.

You can adjust to your individual strengths and weaknesses, rather than following a cookie cutter pattern.

Best thing though, is to remove your self esteem from the equation. I know a guy who likes to travel to other countries and pursue women. Some lady in the Philippines says he is the father of her child and asks for money. He sends the money. People tell him he's probably being scammed. He agrees, but points out that if he is, he is just sending money to third world family that needs it, so no big deal.

Personally, I don't like money deals with good friends because it has the potential to wreck the friendship. Same reason I wouldn't date their ex's. Probably some other things as well.

If fact I would rather just give the money outright to a friend. Obviously no more than I'm willing to lose.

Quote: Wizard

Coincidentally, since I started the cooperation game, I had a locked mountain bike stolen worth about $1,000

I visited Japan a few years back. My American friend, who was living in Tokyo was my tour guide. We were walking around, came upon a train station, and there were dozen if bicycles by the entrance. Unlocked. I couldn't believe it. Unlocked bikes. This was way outside my comfort zone. My friend just pointed out no one steals bikes in Tokyo.

"Cool story IndyJeffrey"

Quote: beachbumbabs

Yes, you do charge interest, hopefully a pass-through amount (you're not making money off your friend, but neither are you losing it). You also have them sign a promissory note, and you agree on a repayment schedule.

For the amount the Wizard was loaning, something close to normal interest should be charged and indicated on the promissory note. Then if the loan is paid off, perhaps the interest can be refunded to this friend.

Why? If everything is on the up and up*, a bad loan can be a tax deduction.

Will Wizard be able to take this off his taxes? Was a promissory note signed?

*the IRS will check to see if you reported this interest on your returns! they catch a lot of people with that. So, report the interest and if you refund the interest, refund all but what was paid in taxes

I think that there is a difference between morally wrong and legally wrong.

For example, you see someone drop $100 on the ground by accident and obliviously keep walking(fell out of their pocket for a prime example) You pick it up and go use it for yourself for fun(go to casino, go to a bar, go to a strip club, etc). You say,"Finders keepers, it's not my problem the guy's $100 fell out of his pocket! I get to spend the $100 on me!" That is morally wrong.

Legally wrong is Sam invites you to his house for dinner and an overnight stay. At 6am, while he is still sleeping, you steal a $100 he left on his kitchen counter, run for the hills, and go have fun with it. That is legally wrong and morally wrong. He could press charges on you for his stolen $100.

There was a loan company that charged clients $40,000 on a $5,000 loan. Even in the fine print on the commercials they said the payback amount was $40,000 for a $5,000 loan. The commercials themselves said,"Yes, the money is expensive, but it's a lot cheaper than a payday loan(how? A payday loan is no more than $50 more than the payday loan amount! For example, you borrow $500 from a payday loan place. They charge you $550 on your next payday. How in hell is that more expensive than paying $40,000 for a $5,000 loan? No. Just no!) The high loan payback amount is shady, but they are not legally wrong as they put the high payback loan amount right in their fine print! They are morally wrong for charging 8 times the loan amount, but not legally wrong as they tell you the high payback loan amount right up front!

By the way this shady loan company has went out of business years ago, presumably because most people weren't stupid enough to get a loan for $5,000 and have to payback $40,000 and the ones who did take the loan out of pure desperation most likely defaulted. If someone is desperate for $5,000 how can a company expect them to give $40,000 back? No. Just no!

Was that loan company called Bank of 'M' and the president was a hairy, stocky fellow called Mr. Guido?

Quote: sammydv

Was that loan company called Bank of 'M' and the president was a hairy, stocky fellow called Mr. Guido?

It was a loan company named Western Sky. They still have the commercials up on YouTube.

Quote: odiousgambit

For the amount the Wizard was loaning, something close to normal interest should be charged and indicated on the promissory note. Then if the loan is paid off, perhaps the interest can be refunded to this friend.

Why? If everything is on the up and up*, a bad loan can be a tax deduction.

Will Wizard be able to take this off his taxes? Was a promissory note signed?

*the IRS will check to see if you reported this interest on your returns! they catch a lot of people with that. So, report the interest and if you refund the interest, refund all but what was paid in taxes

What's the point of charging interest if they don't pay you back? And when they do you just return it?

Quote: Nathan

It was a loan company named Western Sky. They still have the commercials up on YouTube.

Best thing about western sky is they were run by native Americans on an Indian Reservation. People tried to sue them but couldn't since the loan originated on sovereign land.

Quote: Wizard

It's a great show. Yes, the boy in the scene is Saul. I too interpret it as a defining moment in his decision to be a wolf, as opposed to a sheep.

Nevertheless, you see through the show conflicts between good and evil within Saul. He usually chooses evil, even when good is clearly the better option. However, he has a soft spot for old people and seems to truly like to help them.

I'm still waiting for one of the many people who voted that it's better to be good to explain how in my moment of darkness here.

While Saul Goodman displayed many "wolf" like behaviors, was he not just a sheep to Walter White (and clients like him)?
----------

In regards to your question about making change...
What would ignorance of the over-payment be defined as (good or bad)?

Quote: Keeneone

While Saul Goodman displayed many "wolf" like behaviors, was he not just a sheep to Walter White (and clients like him)?

I think we need to bring a third animal into this. An animal that doesn't harm other animals but neither does it trust them, like sheep do. That is how I would describe most of Saul's business doings. He gave charged a fair and agreeable price for his services. A sheep lawyer would be doing pro bono work for the poor.

Quote:

What would ignorance of the over-payment be defined as (good or bad)?

Neither.

Quote: Boz

So does this make me a good person still for helping someone out? Or a bad one for making money off the situation?

Reminds me of the attorney who found out how much those Rent to Own Household Furnishings places made and went into the business herself.

I am somewhere in between. I have major qualms about outright stealing, but got extra special food discounts once I figured out a loophole in a food corporation. I didn't steal the food, I just figured out a way to get it majorly discounted and used it to my advantage. ;)