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rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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April 19th, 2016 at 4:07:25 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I'm sure the W-2G doesn't include the free play amount, but any cash winnings from free play is properly reported as business income to Schedule C filers. Unless the professional gamblers who are playing this are also cheating on their taxes, it's still an effective (taxable) bonus of 27-ish percent (assuming a minimal loss of the theoretical value of free play due to playing optimal VP or something).



It's a pet peeve of mine when people say cheat on their
taxes. That's like saying you cheat on your mugging if you hide the bulk of your money somewhere other than your wallet and the mugger doesn't find it.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 19th, 2016 at 4:23:45 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

It's a pet peeve of mine when people say cheat on their
taxes. That's like saying you cheat on your mugging if you hide the bulk of your money somewhere other than your wallet and the mugger doesn't find it.

That's only a correct analogy if you believe your debt to the government is the legal equivalent of your debt to the mugger (which is zero). I don't equate taxes to robbery but I expect some people do.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 19th, 2016 at 4:32:56 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

...I don't equate taxes to robbery but I expect some people do.


We prefer to call it what it really is....extortion.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
TomG
TomG
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April 19th, 2016 at 4:46:52 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That's only a correct analogy if you believe your debt to the government . . .



If the government wanted us to pay our debt correctly they wouldn't have made the tax code 70,000 pages. But that's what they chose to do. I fill out my 1040 and mail it to the experts for review. Then I pay whatever they decide. That is not cheating, that's following the rules.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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April 19th, 2016 at 4:49:08 PM permalink
De Gubment does some good stuff, they do it with my money and yours. They get it right sometimes, in spite of themselves. Most of the lower echelon are trying, with bad operational procedures and inadequate training and equipment that isn't exactly state of the art, so to speak. And sometimes with, with..how do I say ? Maybe some of the employees should be picking strawberries and other vegetables and fruits. And then there are the guys that run the show. The show must go on, the producers do fine even when the show is a flop. They bet your money, not theirs. And often somehow manage a skim off the top? Who said the mob was long gone?.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 19th, 2016 at 5:08:01 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

If the government wanted us to pay our debt correctly they wouldn't have made the tax code 70,000 pages. But that's what they chose to do. I fill out my 1040 and mail it to the experts for review. Then I pay whatever they decide. That is not cheating, that's following the rules.

I agree, but that's entirely different than underreporting your gambling winnings because it was a cash transaction and you know it wasn't reported to the IRS. That's explicitly *not* following the rules. There's a big difference between not liking the rules and not following them.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
TomG
TomG
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April 19th, 2016 at 5:37:53 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I agree, but that's entirely different than underreporting your gambling winnings because it was a cash transaction and you know it wasn't reported to the IRS. That's explicitly *not* following the rules. There's a big difference between not liking the rules and not following them.



Since I started working a job that has a w2 six months ago the records I've been keeping aren't very precise at all. I just know I pay for a lot of things in cash (which are very often taxed) and I always have money in my pocket despite never making a withdrawal from the bank. Today I won $9.70 on a video poker progressive, then cashed about $450 in sports tickets and made another $200 in bets. (To pay out $1300 if everything hits. Lightening and Blue Jays are looking good so far; Penguins and Phillies not so much. Biggest bet is on the Blues later tonight). By tax time next year, it will have all blurred together. If the government has a problem with that sort of accounting they have a few choices: they can mail me a bill anytime they want to, they can prosecute, or they can make the tax laws simpler. Until they do one of those things, they are telling me they are completely ok with the way I claim my income.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
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April 19th, 2016 at 7:07:14 PM permalink
Thanks, Axel, for the very kind words about me.

Regarding paying taxes, I tried to split those pots off, but this thread is all screwed up with incorrect tags and I couldn't. This happens when people don't close a quote, table, or things like that. So, somebody please make a new thread to discuss that topic and take it over there.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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April 19th, 2016 at 9:41:14 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That's only a correct analogy if you believe your debt to the government is the legal equivalent of your debt to the mugger (which is zero). I don't equate taxes to robbery but I expect some people do.



Changing the name of an action doesn't change what that action is. Ibeatyouraces has it right. It's extortion. Maybe you like the services government provides. Maybe you'd like if a mugger handed you a sandwich after taking your wallet. That doesn't change what it really is.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 19th, 2016 at 10:26:01 PM permalink
Taxes aren't extortion in countries that permit emigration. If you feel you're not getting a good deal in exchange for your taxes, you can always live elsewhere.

But it's hardly extortion if, knowing about the services you're consuming in exchange for those taxes, you choose to consume those services instead of opting out by leaving. That's like going to a restaurant, eating lots of food, and then being upset that you have to pay for it. If you can prepare your own meals, by all means don't eat out. Or choose the cheaper restaurant next door. But choosing to eat out means accepting the entire transaction, not just the parts you like. It is unjust to dine and dash.

I'd agree that taxes are extortion in countries like North Korea but that's the least of their worries.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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