Should the NFL move to an 18 game season?

Over the weekend NFL Network reported the League's commisioner has propposed dropping two pre-season games (there are currently 4) in favor of two more regular season games.

Naturally this will be the subject of much debate in the sports pages for a while. I'm not sure what to think yet. As a fan I'd love a longer season. Buit aslo as a fan I would hate to see more injuries, teams too tired in the playoffs, and who knows what other effects a longer season might have.

I remember when the season was 14 games long, and only 4 teams made the playoffs in each conference (three division leaders and one wild card). I like the 16 game season better, and the longer post-season with more teams, too (now it's four division winners plus two wild cards).

But with more games there are consequences:

1) More chances for injury. Sure an injury can happen any time (Martin "Automatica" Gramatica injured himself celebrating a field goal all alone), but they're more likely in games where the players are going all-out or nearly so, meanign regular season and playoff games. In the pre-season the rhythm of play and the play time for each player is different (rookies and backups play more, for one thing)

2) Records. Some records are more easily broken; yards per season, TDs per season, sacks per season, etc. Others are harder to break, notably achieving an undefeated season. I've no doubt if the NFL still played only 14 regular season games, some team otehr than Miami would ahve had an undefeated season by now, maybe more than one. At 16 games it's not quite impossible, but it is much harder. At 18 games, I'd call it impossible for the foreseeable future.

3) Fatigue. Both the players and the fans may get tired of a longer season. You'll see more teams reasting their starters late in the season. To this end, it may help to add a second bye-week to all teams. of course, this means lengthening the season even more (to at least 20 or 21 weeks). Fan fatigue could be more of a problem.

4) Higher season ticket prices. They ahve to. After all, more games, more money, right?

Any thoughts?

I'd be totlly against this. The season is already going long with the byew, which they would surely keep. In 1993 they had a double-bye season and it was not well received. As it is plenty of teams are out of it by week 10. They still will be but teams like the Browns will have another 2 games for the fans to suffer thru. But in the end it is about dillution. The NFL is special in that with so few games each game means a lot. Games used to be Sunday afternoon only. Then they added MNF and it was a hit. Then sunday night football. Then more and more thursday games. Now it will start earlier or go longer yet. Why can't sports leagues undrestand what Jerry Seinfeld said about "leave them wanting more?"

Actually, as much as I have liked football all my life, the last thing I want is more NFL. Holding up a city for $30MM to put a roof on "in case it rains" during a Superbowl; letting doig-killers play after just a 4 game suspension; promoting fantasy-football but being adamantly against "betting" on games. Other than the Steelers the whole NFL is only lines and bets to me.

I'm a huge NFL fan as well. I live in Seattle and have missed only one Seahawk home game in a decade (seriously). I work at the games, originally in the stat booth (My dad and two uncles basically run it) and I now issue out vests for the media. When watching your next game, look for the ugly red/black vests that people wear. I issue those each game and collect them afterwards. During the game, I walk around on the field and make sure they're following all of the stupid little rules the NFL sets for them. It's a BS job, but somebody has to do it and I'm happy to :). I'm not trying to say "I have inside knowledge" or "I'm smarter than you" - most people who like football enjoy hearing something about my job.

I believe that you missed the most important point: Money. How about the majority of players who have contracts signed for 16 + postseason games? They will be "asked" to play two more grueling games... therefore their salaries will have to be changed and the salary cap (if they make one) will also have to be increased. You can't just go with a linear increase in their salary because I would argue that #1 and #3 would mean that they get paid more than just a 12.5% increase... unless guaranteed contracts become the norm.

As a straight fan: I would LOVE two extra games. When I start to think about it: Injuries would just become way too prevalent and the NFL already has a looming crisis when it comes to brain damage. I haven't followed it as much as I should but hasn't it been decided that the NFL is legally liable for the severe problems players have later in life? I just don't think it's the best thing right now, but if they have to do it I agree about adding another bye week.

Lastly: After working every home Seahawk and Husky football game, I'm tired as shit at the end of football season.

I'm the only vote for lengthening the regular season.

I don't know why everyone cares so much about injuries. They even out. If you care that much about injuries, then we should be calling to shorten the regular season. The NFL should just add roster spots or get rid of "injured reserve"

I figure if they add two games, the season gets lengthened one week on both sides. Week 1 is Labor Day weekend and the Superbowl is President's Day Weekend.

Season ticket holders pay for all 10 games now anyway, so the prices might go up, but at least they only have to suffer through one pre-season game.

I understand about the concussion fears, but that needs to be addressed through the game, not through the length of the regular season.

Finally, football season is 5 months long, baseball is 7, hockey and basketball are 8 1/2. Making football two weeks longer doesn't seem that crazy.

I'm gonna say no for the reasons stated above. Why the constant need to mess with a good thing??...kind of like the NCAA expanding the men's BB tourney. Fortunately they didn't destroy that by going to 96 teams. Lets not screw up NFL either. Its perfect the way it is.

Yes, they should convert the last two pre-season games to regular season games. Even the coaches say 4 pre-season games is a waste of time.

The season ticket holders totally get ripped off in this - we pay full price for 10 games, but out of the 4 pre-season games, the starters play maybe a game and a half. Pre-season game 3 is the only one where starters play most of the game. I mean, think about the 4th pre-season game, it's like a game on the last day of the baseball season and both teams are 30 games out.

The owners are against it because they keep all the revenue, the players would be for it because presumably they think their salaries would go up.

TV revenues should be higher for the two extra regular season games, which would help the owners.

To think there were 6 preseason games not that long ago...

There are some positives to a longer season:

1) Backup QBs wuold play more in real games. A team that's out of it by week 10 or 12 could do worse than provide its backups with experience. Considering how many first-rate QBs got to play only because the starter was injured (Favre, Warner, Brady), it might be netter to let them play in real games more often, if only to see what they can do.

2) More games outside the division. As it is every team plays about 40% of the season against divisioanl rivals. Add two more games and the percentage drops to 1/3 of the season.

In any case it's something that should be carefully considered. More games would be nice, but if the quality of play comes down, then more games wouldn't be much good.

I wonder if the NFL wouldn't do better to set up a spring football league. Summer's just too hot for football, but a minor league playing from late February to June might do well. Of coruse, teh last NFL attempt at a parallel/minor league in the US was a misserable failure.

Quote: Chuck

Yes, they should convert the last two pre-season games to regular season games. Even the coaches say 4 pre-season games is a waste of time.

The season ticket holders totally get ripped off in this - we pay full price for 10 games, but out of the 4 pre-season games, the starters play maybe a game and a half. Pre-season game 3 is the only one where starters play most of the game. I mean, think about the 4th pre-season game, it's like a game on the last day of the baseball season and both teams are 30 games out.

The owners are against it because they keep all the revenue, the players would be for it because presumably they think their salaries would go up.

TV revenues should be higher for the two extra regular season games, which would help the owners.

Totally agree. Your not really lengthening the overall season at all. Just changing the status of two games. Playing time will increase for some and decrease for others. People who pay for preseason games get totally ripped off and with the prices today it is one hell of a rip off. Plus you ever try betting on a pre season game. It's like kissing your cousin.

Also in the yes camp. 2 more games reduces the odds that idiotic playoff tiebreakers are needed. There's nothing like going 9-7 and missing the playoffs because someone beat someone who beat someone who beat you by 2 in week 1.

Quote: thlf

People who pay for preseason games get totally ripped off and with the prices today it is one hell of a rip off. Plus you ever try betting on a pre season game. It's like kissing your cousin.

Why would you buy tickets for preseason, or bet on preseason games? You wouldn't pay for warm lemonade, would you? or bet on three card monte. If you do, you deserve what you get.

Quote: Nareed

Why would you buy tickets for preseason, or bet on preseason games? You wouldn't pay for warm lemonade, would you? or bet on three card monte. If you do, you deserve what you get.

I think they're included in the season ticket package. So you pay maybe 80% of face value for season tix, but the value distribution of the 10 games is 10,20,100,100,100,100,100,100,90,50. So season ticket holders lose per-game value by including the preseason games.

Season ticket holders don't have a choice. You have to buy tickets to all 10 home games, and the ticket price for the pre-season games is the same as for regular season games.

Quote: Chuck

Season ticket holders don't have a choice. You have to buy tickets to all 10 home games, and the ticket price for the pre-season games is the same as for regular season games.

Ok.

If the team amkes it to the playoffs, do you pay extra for post-season or is it included?

I really don't know how deep the discount for season tickets is. Would a person be better off financially if they bought tickets to the 8 regular season games separately rather than buying season tix including the preseason?

Quote: rdw4potus

I really don't know how deep the discount for season tickets is. Would a person be better off financially if they bought tickets to the 8 regular season games separately rather than buying season tix including the preseason?

There is no discount for buying season tickets.

You would be better off financially if you bought tickets for just the 8 regular season games, but your seating options would be limited. In some cities all seats are sold out on a season ticket basis, and the only tickets sold outside that are a couple of thousand (max) general admission tickets to each game.

My 2 cents: I think it could be a good idea (eliminating 2 preseason games and extending the regular season by two games), but from everything I have read and heard the players would be ground up like hamburger by the end of the season. Injuries would be a big negative.

What I think they should do is go ahead and extend the season, but allow teams to carry 60 players on the active roster. This will give them more flexibility to substitute and mitigate the injuries.

Some teams already "shut it down" after week 15 anyways. so adding 2 more games will have Peyton and other starters resting for 3-4 games instead of 1-2 and that is going to be like a preseason game at the end of the year.

Quote: Nareed

Ok.

If the team amkes it to the playoffs, do you pay extra for post-season or is it included?

It's extra.

The NFL authorizes teams that are in the hunt to send out playoff ticket invoices usually by the beginning of December (I've gotten one before Thanksgiving one year). Season ticket holders who want to buy their same seats for the playoffs are required to buy them for two playoff games, since that is the maximum any team can play at home. The invoices usually have a payment deadline that's at least two weeks prior to the first playoff game. The value of tickets for unplayed games is applied as a credit to your account for the next year's regular season invoice (or refundable if you don;t renew).

The prices for the playoff tickets are set by the league and are (I believe) uniform for each team. So for some teams, they're a lot more expensive than regular games, and for others, not much.

I'll give you a rough example, and also an idea of the inflation.

I have two Patriots season tickets, middle end zone. I bought them in 1992, at that time they were $29 each ticket each game. Last year they were $117 per game. Playoff tickets for the same seats last year were (something like, I don't remember the exact prices) $129 for the first round and $149 for the AFC Championship game.

2 tix to each of 2 meaningless pre-season games = $468.

Quote: Nareed

Why would you buy tickets for preseason, or bet on preseason games? You wouldn't pay for warm lemonade, would you? or bet on three card monte. If you do, you deserve what you get.

I think you already heard the arguments for buying preseason tickets, as far as betting I'm not saying I do it or condone it, I am saying it sucks that you have to wait 4 weeks to bet on a game that means something.

Quote: Chuck

I have two Patriots season tickets, middle end zone. I bought them in 1992, at that time they were $29 each ticket each game. Last year they were $117 per game. Playoff tickets for the same seats last year were (something like, I don't remember the exact prices) $129 for the first round and $149 for the AFC Championship game.

2 tix to each of 2 meaningless pre-season games = $468.

So obviously there is a large and strong demand for NFL tickets. Otherwise season tickets would include playoffs rather than pre-season.

This should be a consequence of the few games played per season, and that most of them take place in an off-day or after business hours. Two more games in the regular season wouldn't change matters much. The more popular teams might even try raising prices, since now you'd pay for more regular season games and less pre-season ones. The less popular teams, well, who knows.

Do they still black-out local games when they aren't sold out in time?

Quote: Nareed

So obviously there is a large and strong demand for NFL tickets. Otherwise season tickets would include playoffs rather than pre-season.

I don't think supply/demand has anything to do with why you pay separately and additionally for NFL playoff games, it's the same for every sport. There's no discount for buying season tickets in the NFL, you pay the same full price for each game, including pre-season games.

Playoff games are additional games/events, and not every team plays them. I suppose they could add the charge for potential playoff tickets to the regular season invoice for every team and see how that flies...not too well, I'd imagine.

Quote:

Do they still black-out local games when they aren't sold out in time?

Yes, I think a game still has to be sold out 72 hours in advance, and I think some teams still sometimes buy up the remaining tickets (if it's a smallish number) and distribute them in various ways to ensure a game gets on the tube.

Quote: Chuck

Yes, I think a game still has to be sold out 72 hours in advance, and I think some teams still sometimes buy up the remaining tickets (if it's a smallish number) and distribute them in various ways to ensure a game gets on the tube.

It is still a rule, was great the first year I lived in Phoenix as it made a greater chance of a team I liked on TV. I don't think teams are allowed to buy them up on their own but rather there is always some group, media or otherwise, who will buy a fed hundred seats. The NFL will also extend the deadline a few hours if a team is that close to selling out.

Answers.com has a good article on NFL and how the TV works. Detail-oriented people will love it. Go there and search NFL and TV, I lost the link.

Quote: Chuck

I don't think supply/demand has anything to do with why you pay separately and additionally for NFL playoff games, it's the same for every sport. There's no discount for buying season tickets in the NFL, you pay the same full price for each game, including pre-season games.

Demand has all to do with it.

1) Typically early payment merits a discount, the arelier the biggger the discount. It's simple. The seller gets money earlier and delivers the product or service afterwards, while the buyer is guaranteed a product or service. But money loses value over time, so the seller entices early payment by providing a discount, essentially taking the loss of value for the buyer. NFL Season tickets are not discounted.

2) There's no need to include pre-season games, as plenty of people would buy season tickets without paying for preseason games, right? But the value of preseason tickets is very low. Therefore the seller forces them on to the season ticket buyer, who buys season tickets anyway. This woulnd't happen with low demand.

3) Just as pre-season is included, so the post-season could be. The seller could ask for a higher price, and offer either a discount upon renewal or a refund if the team doesn't make the playoffs. Notice this doesn't happen. Why? Because the seller is confident he can sell all playoff tickets anyway, but forcing them on to season ticket buyers might drop demand (and would interfere with sellign preseason tickets as part of the season ticket).

If the demand were low, if few peopla wanted to buy season tickets, you'd see discounts, no pre-season games tacked on, and free or discount playoffs tickets payable in advance.

Quote: FinsRule

I'm the only vote for lengthening the regular season.

Given your handle, I'm suspicious you want the Dolphins to be the only undefeated team in history.

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I don't know why everyone cares so much about injuries. They even out. If you care that much about injuries, then we should be calling to shorten the regular season. The NFL should just add roster spots or get rid of "injured reserve"

I am in favor of bigger team rosters. But that runs you into the practical problem of paying additional salaries and benefits. NFL teams employ massive amounts of people as it is.

I've this notion that human limits grow in time. So what was an extraordinary feat of physical fitness for one generation, is routine for most athletes two or three generations later. The great athletes are those who go ahead of the curve. Partly this is due to better training methods, partly to better gear, partly to better management of play time, and there ought to be many more factors involved from nutrition to medicine.

Assuming this is true, then we're at a point in time when 16 games per season are at the limits of the NFL athlete. Adding more games now would push ability past such limits and ahve negative consequences, not least as regards to season-ending injuries (and perhaps to career-ending injuries, though those tend to be more like a fluke).

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I understand about the concussion fears, but that needs to be addressed through the game, not through the length of the regular season.

Certainly. While odds of a concussion rise with games played, the management of the injury is more important. A concussion is not serious if it's managed appropriately. This can be handled with rules. Say the NFL designates a physician to rule on concussions. If he determines a player suffered one, he informs the Referee. Then the Referee bars the player from playing the rest of the game, no matter how important he is.

I know lots of players can play through injuries. Favre played several games at Green Bay with a broken thumb (in his throwing hand!). But a concussion is one injury no one should play through.

Finally, football season is 5 months long, baseball is 7, hockey and basketball are 8 1/2. Making football two weeks longer doesn't seem that crazy.

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Football season is shorter, and less games are played, because Football is too demanding a game physically to permit much more. That's why the bye week was added to the season. Also why teams don't want to play on Thrusday.

Donald Trump is a fucking criminal