Poll

2 votes (15.38%)
1 vote (7.69%)
4 votes (30.76%)
7 votes (53.84%)
1 vote (7.69%)
1 vote (7.69%)
5 votes (38.46%)
3 votes (23.07%)
2 votes (15.38%)
2 votes (15.38%)

13 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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January 20th, 2021 at 6:50:57 AM permalink
I was asked about Burning Man 2021 in the Live Stream thread, starting with this post. The topic, I think, is worthy of it's own thread.

As background, the organizers lost a lot of money due to cancelling the event last year. No, the virtual Burning Man doesn't count and everybody knows it!

I went to the Burning Man web site to see what they say about BM 2021. It looks like the site hasn't been updated since at least August, since it refers to August 30, 2020 as a date in the future.

This article makes the prospects of an official Burning Man this year seem poor.

This is not a drill': Burning Man pleads for donations, says 2021 event in danger.

As much as I liked Burning Man 2018, I am also still mad over how badly the online ticket sale was managed and think the event has become too big. It would not be surprising if the ineptitude that caused that permeates the entire organization. If the current "project" goes under, I hope something smaller and better will rise up out of the ashes.

The question for the poll is do think there will be an official Burning Man 2021?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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January 20th, 2021 at 8:19:22 AM permalink
Go to a smaller local burn
Probably have more fun
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Vegasrider
Vegasrider
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January 20th, 2021 at 1:38:13 PM permalink
Please, no more Burning Man, at least in Northern Nevada. Move it to Vegas. The Strip would be perfect.
jqneedareset
jqneedareset
Joined: Dec 11, 2020
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January 20th, 2021 at 6:12:08 PM permalink
Election Fraud ! There is more than 100 % in the Poll.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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January 20th, 2021 at 6:41:07 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This article makes the prospects of an official Burning Man this year seem poor.

This is not a drill': Burning Man pleads for donations, says 2021 event in danger.


This article at Trippingly is much more optimistic, not because it thinks BM will get its ducks in a row, but rather because it thinks BM has its back against the wall.

The way it looks is that 70,000 tickets must be sold or else organized Burning Man will cease to exist. They, therefore, have EVERY possible incentive to make the 2021 event take place ... or to at least sell all those tickets. (This is why buying tickets is starting to look more like a wager instead of a transaction. It's becoming increasingly doubtful that any money will be refunded if the Burn is cancelled.)

The problem, of course is Covid. The org must hang its hopes on most people being vaccinated by the time late summer arrives. Unfortunately, the vaccine rollout isn't inspiring much confidence. Authorities like Dr Fauci are now talking about Autumn at the earliest (I'll let the Covid threads here debate the timelines), too late for a 2021 Burn. In this scenario, the org would be curtains (although they could try pushing the date back).

Another issue is permits. Even if BM organizers (not exactly unbiased judges) decide the safety level is sufficient for 2021 to take place, the government may (in the form of the Bureau of Land management) declare the event a "super spreader" and deny the use of Black Rock. In this case, Trippinly argues that BM will make the big decision to move Burning Man onto private land. This, however, would create new problems.

Last year, some unofficial Burns took place. One of these was at Baker Beach (site of the original Burning Man), and another on the current BM Playa itself. (Some of the art from this latter event is still standing.) The org made no money from these unsanctioned events and, indeed, condemned them as virus spreaders. If the official event were to now avoid government warnings by moving onto private land, charges of hypocrisy would be inevitable. (To be fair, they may not have much choice. If the only options are minor taint to the brand name vs nonexistence, the decision become an easy one.)

Another problem would be what such a Covid shrouded event would even look like. How would the camps be arranged? What about the privies? Hugging, much less orgies, would be out of the question. What if mask wearing free spirits begin mask shaming non mask wearing free spirits and a spirited brawl erupts? It doesn't sound like a dream experience to be crossed of one's bucket list.

But who knows? Maybe things will turn out alright. Maybe Covid will be gone by late summer. Maybe some rich philanthropist--a high tech billionaire perhaps or a corporation--will donate 10 or 20 million dollars for the publicity. On the other hand, such largess might come with a quid pro quo. Does "Qualcomm presents Burning Man sponsored by Home Depot and Apple Computers" sound like something the free spirited burners would be attracted to?

Trippingly makes a good case that Burning Man will indeed take place in 2021 (it's all about money and survival), but notice one thing. Embedded at the top of the article is the Burn Clock from the BM official website. This clock counts down the months, days, hours, minutes and seconds before the next burn. A caption reads, "Check the Countdown. If itís tickiní down, thatís a good signÖ."

The clock stands frozen.
Last edited by: Gialmere on Jan 20, 2021
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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January 23rd, 2021 at 1:04:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

As much as I liked Burning Man 2018, I am also still mad over how badly the online ticket sale was managed and think the event has become too big. It would not be surprising if the ineptitude that caused that permeates the entire organization.


I don't know if it's fair to call out BM on the ticket sale issues. Comparable events such as Comic-Con (where ticket demand far exceeds supply) get similar complaints.

From what I read, BMorg (at least as a business) was competently run carrying an estimated cash reserve of 12-14 million dollars. The trouble is it's a one-trick (sparkle) pony. The burn is the only product, which is fine during normal times. With their cash reserve, lawyers and PR department, they were prepared for any contingency -- except for a pandemic shutting down the entire planet.
----------------------------

The 100 million vaccines a day promises to make for interesting speculation. If (and it's a big if) true, then roughly three quarters of the country could be vaccinated by Burn time. Could the Burn, with special precautions, still take place as normal?

Well,

In other news, it's now rumored that Japan is seriously thinking of throwing in the towel on the 2020 Summer Olympics (along with the 25 billion they spent on it). They just can't see how it could be done with crowds (by definition), and athletes in team sports (by definition), all in close proximity to each other.

If the rumor pans out, what chance does Burning Man have?
Last edited by: Gialmere on Jan 23, 2021
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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January 23rd, 2021 at 2:04:41 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

I don't know if it's fair to call out BM on the ticket sale issues. Comparable events such Comic-Con (where ticket demand far exceeds supply) get similar complaints.

From what I read, BMorg (at least as a business) was competently run carrying an estimated cash reserve of 12-14 million dollars. The trouble is it's a one-trick (sparkle) pony. The burn is the only product, which is fine during normal times. With their cash reserve, lawyers and PR department, they were prepared for any contingency -- except for a pandemic shutting down the entire planet.
----------------------------

The 100 million vaccines a day promises make for interesting speculation. If (and it's a big if) true, then roughly three quarters of the country could be vaccinated by Burn time. Could the Burn, with special precautions, still take place as normal?

Well,

In other news, it's now rumored that Japan is seriously thinking of throwing in the towel on the 2020 Summer Olympics (along with the 25 billion they spent on it). They just can't see how it could be done with crowds (by definition), and athletes in team sports (by definition), all in close proximity to each other.

If the rumor pans out, what chance does Burning Man have?


Burning man is about the people, won't work
But
Olympics can
It's mostly a TV event for the world anyway
It can be done without the fans
Just invite the athletes, coaches and family
Spread it out over the entire summer so only a fraction of the athletes are in Japan at any given time.
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 23rd, 2021 at 3:35:05 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

I don't know if it's fair to call out BM on the ticket sale issues. Comparable events such Comic-Con (where ticket demand far exceeds supply) get similar complaints.



One easy to reduce demand is increase the price. However, I can see how some events like Burning Man wouldn't be the same if only the wealthy could afford to go. In that case, I think the fairest thing to do is have a lottery. That's not perfect, as it incentives scalpers, but I can't think of anything better.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
terapined
terapined
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January 23rd, 2021 at 3:59:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

One easy to reduce demand is increase the price. However, I can see how some events like Burning Man wouldn't be the same if only the wealthy could afford to go. In that case, I think the fairest thing to do is have a lottery. That's not perfect, as it incentives scalpers, but I can't think of anything better.



Let the market set the price
If they plan on selling 70k
What do you think would be the break price from a sellout to having some tickets availible?
The 425 price is the 2019 main sale price
I think maybe 750 may be the market price
That's not outrageous
I can't see 70k paying over 1k

Now that I live in an RV, I could easily do this but
Those dust storms just scare me
Just not good for the health of my truck engine
I simply hate dust at a festival
I did Bonnaroo one year when it was hot and dry
With about 100k, just a permanent dust cloud over the whole festival.
Disgusting
Gets into everything including your eyes and food
Uggh
Last edited by: terapined on Jan 23, 2021
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 23rd, 2021 at 7:10:14 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Let the market set the price



In my opinion, given they are in financial trouble, they should do away with the open sale, or whatever it's called, with the cheap $425 tickets.

I think anybody who has applied for an art installation gets tickets at that price through another sale, which is completely fair, as they are contributing. That will bring in the artistic crowd. Let the spectators pay the full price.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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