Can You Beat A Chess Machine?
Quote: FTB
Really Bad Chess might actually be a fun and interesting way to learn chess for beginners who were just taught the game but need help mastering the subtleties of it so they can become better.
I learned predominantly by playing computers purposely at the higher levels which seems counterintuitive now that I look back at it.
Its fun but with such dominant pieces, she had 5 queens, you are looking to trade pieces at every chance. Maybe even a Q for a rook lol
I played a lot of chess during the frenzy due to the Fischer Spassky match in Iceland for the world championship.
I was convinced that what would happen would be that though it was nearly impossible to lose, she would accidentally cause a draw by trapping the other King, that piece forced to move without anywhere legal to move, and without having put the old boy into check. Thus the title "real bad chess"Quote: terapinedIts fun but with such dominant pieces, she had 5 queens, you are looking to trade pieces at every chance. Maybe even a Q for a rook lol
I have done that many times in my day! Though really never now, it is constantly on my mind in the end game. In fact I usually finish the game all the way to checkmate to reassure myself I don't do that anymore, plus I enjoy the endgame; in fact I finished the above game but forgot to keep a record of the moves.
Quote: odiousgambit
I've been surprised how bad the lower levels are in chess.com. Why?
I guess they want to build a new player's confidence - show him that he can win a game
by the time you get to level 5 the bot gets much tougher to beat
Quote: odiousgambitI was convinced that what would happen would be that though it was nearly impossible to lose, she would accidentally cause a draw by trapping the other King, that piece forced to move without anywhere legal to move, and without having put the old boy into check. Thus the title "real bad chess"
I have done that many times in my day! Though really never now, it is constantly on my mind in the end game. In fact I usually finish the game all the way to checkmate to reassure myself I don't do that anymore, plus I enjoy the endgame; in fact I finished the above game but forgot to keep a record of the moves.
Focusing on avoiding the opponent from using stealth-like moves to achieve stalemate instead of incurring what seemed to be the inevitable loss, or learning how to mate only utilizing a rook and king or only the queen and king...
These lessons teach us attention to detail, patience and being aware of our surroundings, which can carry over into our everyday lives!
Such a great game worthy of our reverence.
This is good, a story with real suspenseQuote: lilredroosterAlpha Zero, the new chess bot monster from Google thinks about chess in a totally different way - in this game it thinks nothing of sacrificing 3 pawns on its' way to totally crushing Stockfish, the previously most powerful bot
Alpha Zero is AI with the ability to learn. Am I the only one who thinks that is scary?
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PS, just noticed good comment :
Quote:Fajar Ramadhan
2 months ago
Phillidor : Pawns are the soul of chess
AlphaZero : Let me just sacrifice all of my pawns
Ditto, beat my dad, he didn't want to play after that. I think it bruised his ego, but the truth is that he's actually much smarter than me, chess is not a good measure of intelligence.Quote: WizardIt was my goal to beat my father, which I eventually did. He said he would never play chess again after that....My dilemma, is that I was born simply average at the game. link to original post
Wiz, chess is definitely a learnable skill. Sure, we'll never be elite players without being naturally gifted, but most players can definitely improve with a little study. I improved my rating by several hundred points by learning some openings, reading a book, and doing free practice puzzles online. I'm approaching 2000 on Lichess for bullet games, and I'm definitely not naturally gifted.
Chess is a game that was invented to force humility onto people
to make them realize that there are people out there who are a lot smarter than them
at least re this game - maybe, probably, does not mean that applies to many other endeavors
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Are you sure about that? I’ve wondered how to write a chess program. Sure, you can calculate all the possible moves a few levels deep, but how the heck do you evaluate which of those positions are superior without deep chess knowledge? I’d have no clue how to do it.Quote: DRichI guess is that I could write a program that could beat 90% of the population without much difficulty.
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I played my first game in a few years recently and lost on a stupid unforced error.
Quote: MichaelBluejayAre you sure about that? I’ve wondered how to write a chess program. Sure, you can calculate all the possible moves a few levels deep, but how the heck do you evaluate which of those positions are superior without deep chess knowledge? I’d have no clue how to do it.Quote: DRichI guess is that I could write a program that could beat 90% of the population without much difficulty.
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No, I am not sure but for me it would be a learning experience since I don't know much about chess. I have a lot of experience with game theory and decision tree pruning so I think I could do it.
I don't know if being bad or good at chess makes one smarter or less intelligent. I know the Wizard is significantly smarter than me but I "easily" beat him at chess along with many others I believe to be smarter than I.Quote: lilredrooster_______________
Chess is a game that was invented to force humility onto people
to make them realize that there are people out there who are a lot smarter than them
at least re this game - maybe, probably, does not mean that applies to many other endeavors
.
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I never took chess seriously, no clubs, tournaments, studying moves reading books, etc. I just play in spurts until I get bored and then move on to something else. I haven't really played for a few years now, so I probably can't beat anyone. The last time I played, I played a 2k-rated player who said I almost had him "you had me worried" until my one mistake. I have beaten the 1900-rated players, but I have also lost to 1400-rated players.
The problem with chess is you hit a wall and it seems impossible to improve beyond that.
Quote: AxelWolf
The problem with chess is you hit a wall and it seems impossible to improve beyond that.
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I tend to agree with this sentiment, I am a solid 1750-1850 player but on occasion have beaten 2100+ players in online matches. I also end up making dumb mistakes or unforced errors and lose to 1400-1500's that will challenge anyone.
At the same time though, I have noticed that when I spend time in the week doing various chess puzzles on top of playing, I tend to notice similar patterns and board shapes in my regular play. I end up knowing what to do and with online chess can set up like 5 different conditional premove lines to cover the expected responses to my moves.
I read grandmasters aren’t known to get dementia.
Were known openings extended when supercomputers started playing?
To beat the human record of recitation of pi, you only need to know one more number than the last guy. Easy peezy.
I tend to believe smart is more processor speed than what’s in your head. Or maybe that’s just a different quality of it?
The opposite is true for me. The more you learn about the game, the more you study it and realize what is actually happening when you make your moves, makes the game much, much more interesting and fun. If you're all you're doing is "pushing pawns," that's no fun at all.Quote: TigerWuTo me, chess is one of those games that becomes less and less fun the more seriously you take it. I had fun playing as a kid when nobody really thought more than one or two moves ahead. People who are serious about chess suck all of the fun out of the game.
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People who aren't serious about chess take all the fun and enjoyment out of the game.
Of course, everyone has their own definition of what "fun" is.
Of course. I used to do this with my grandfather, who lived on the other side of the country. It was a nice way for us to keep in touch, and I looked forward to each and every postcard or letter he sent, with his next move.Quote: rxwineDid anyone play chess through the mail, back in the day, pen pal style? An older friend of a friend was doing that.
That's only because we've never played.Quote: billryanI'm not a very good chess player, although I am undefeated against people posting in this thread.
That's how and when I first learned how to play. But once the internet became a common thing, I played much, much than I did during that summer in '72. In the mid '90s, once ICC took off, I could easily play more games in a single week than I could during an entire year in '72. It was simply wonderful to be able to play 24/7, at home, in your pajamas, against people from the other side of the planet. I couldn't even have dreamed of doing that back then.Quote: terapinedI played a lot of chess during the frenzy due to the Fischer Spassky match in Iceland for the world championship.
I've gained more since this photo was taken, but not a lot more, maybe just a few dozen.
Many people probably know you don't need a special brain to achieve high memorization skills. You do need to learn principles of mnemonics and you too can achieve parlor tricks of prodigious demonstration of memory. My tennis instructor once told me not to spend much time playing lessor skilled players and spend more time playing people who can crush me. And studies from other activities might also inform chess playing. For instance, did basketball players improve more on free throws standing in one spot vs. changing their position? Turns out, they improved faster changing their position while practicing free throws. Dart players facial expressions can reveal how likely one's throw is going to be a good one.
(note, concerning any studies, or course replication with the same results is something that doesn't always confirm some new conclusions. so, that's something to keep in mind)
Quote: EdCollinsThat's only because we've never played.Quote: billryanI'm not a very good chess player, although I am undefeated against people posting in this thread.
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Whose fault is that?
Quote: EdCollinsOf course. I used to do this with my grandfather, who lived on the other side of the country. It was a nice way for us to keep in touch, and I looked forward to each and every postcard or letter he sent, with his next move.Quote: rxwineDid anyone play chess through the mail, back in the day, pen pal style? An older friend of a friend was doing that.
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Could you imagine trying to get a kid to do that today? Today if they can't get instant gratification you will never hear from them again.
Quote: DRichQuote: EdCollinsOf course. I used to do this with my grandfather, who lived on the other side of the country. It was a nice way for us to keep in touch, and I looked forward to each and every postcard or letter he sent, with his next move.Quote: rxwineDid anyone play chess through the mail, back in the day, pen pal style? An older friend of a friend was doing that.
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Could you imagine trying to get a kid to do that today? Today if they can't get instant gratification you will never hear from them again.
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It's not about "instant gratification," it's about playing smart. Playing chess by mail is an obsolete standard. It doesn't make sense to do it that way. If you tried to get a kid to play by mail, it would make about as much sense as trying to get him to ride a horse to school versus taking the bus.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: DRichQuote: EdCollinsOf course. I used to do this with my grandfather, who lived on the other side of the country. It was a nice way for us to keep in touch, and I looked forward to each and every postcard or letter he sent, with his next move.Quote: rxwineDid anyone play chess through the mail, back in the day, pen pal style? An older friend of a friend was doing that.
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Could you imagine trying to get a kid to do that today? Today if they can't get instant gratification you will never hear from them again.
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It's not about "instant gratification," it's about playing smart. Playing chess by mail is an obsolete standard. It doesn't make sense to do it that way. If you tried to get a kid to play by mail, it would make about as much sense as trying to get him to ride a horse to school versus taking the bus.
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It sounds like there is a market opportunity for a slow chess app. (I do see a few.)
I probably was 6 doubles deep and playing poker at the same time.Quote: billryanI'm not a very good chess player, although I am undefeated against people posting in this thread. I don't get a chance to play much as I don't enjoy online chess. I like looking into my opponent's eyes as they push a perceived advantage and especially enjoy that moment when they go from bravely leaping into the fray to realizing they walked into a trap and are in deep doo-doo.
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Quote: AxelWolfI probably was 6 doubles deep and playing poker at the same time.Quote: billryanI'm not a very good chess player, although I am undefeated against people posting in this thread. I don't get a chance to play much as I don't enjoy online chess. I like looking into my opponent's eyes as they push a perceived advantage and especially enjoy that moment when they go from bravely leaping into the fray to realizing they walked into a trap and are in deep doo-doo.
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In other words, a typical Sunday afternoon.
https://playchessup.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA-dCcBhBQEiwAeWidtVkAqr79axZrkUuqrLmWlcn2J04POZO9TRVWqzQd5cIi-2YkjE9XbhoCZ54QAvD_BwE
Quote: DRichDid anyone watch Shark Tank last night? This was on it and it looks pretty cool for a chess trainer.
https://playchessup.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA-dCcBhBQEiwAeWidtVkAqr79axZrkUuqrLmWlcn2J04POZO9TRVWqzQd5cIi-2YkjE9XbhoCZ54QAvD_BwE
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I think they have to get the price way down if they wish to succeed. I didn't see the segment, but I have an eight-year-old grand-nephew who just started playing chess and looked at the site thinking of a Christmas present but not for $400.
Quote: billryanQuote: DRichDid anyone watch Shark Tank last night? This was on it and it looks pretty cool for a chess trainer.
https://playchessup.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA-dCcBhBQEiwAeWidtVkAqr79axZrkUuqrLmWlcn2J04POZO9TRVWqzQd5cIi-2YkjE9XbhoCZ54QAvD_BwE
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I think they have to get the price way down if they wish to succeed. I didn't see the segment, but I have an eight-year-old grand-nephew who just started playing chess and looked at the site thinking of a Christmas present but not for $400.
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I agree the price needs to come down to under $200. I like how the spaces light up showing you what would be a good move and bad move. I also like the idea of having actual pieces to move as opposed to on the computer.
Quote: DRichQuote: billryanQuote: DRichDid anyone watch Shark Tank last night? This was on it and it looks pretty cool for a chess trainer.
https://playchessup.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA-dCcBhBQEiwAeWidtVkAqr79axZrkUuqrLmWlcn2J04POZO9TRVWqzQd5cIi-2YkjE9XbhoCZ54QAvD_BwE
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I think they have to get the price way down if they wish to succeed. I didn't see the segment, but I have an eight-year-old grand-nephew who just started playing chess and looked at the site thinking of a Christmas present but not for $400.
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I agree the price needs to come down to under $200. I like how the spaces light up showing you what would be a good move and bad move. I also like the idea of having actual pieces to move as opposed to on the computer.
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I'd have bought it for a gift if it was around $100. I don't see many places stocking it at $400, unless it is fully returnable. I agree the pieces are nice, but is it all that different from a $49 chess computer?
The basic alpha beta minimax program has been written hundreds of times. The new neural network programs starting with LC0 peaked in 2017 winning TCEC. The latest programs combine both of these methods.Quote: MichaelBluejayAre you sure about that? I’ve wondered how to write a chess program. Sure, you can calculate all the possible moves a few levels deep, but how the heck do you evaluate which of those positions are superior without deep chess knowledge? I’d have no clue how to do it.Quote: DRichI guess is that I could write a program that could beat 90% of the population without much difficulty.
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https://www.chessprogramming.org/Main_Page
Nah, judt special events.Quote: billryanQuote: AxelWolfI probably was 6 doubles deep and playing poker at the same time.Quote: billryanI'm not a very good chess player, although I am undefeated against people posting in this thread. I don't get a chance to play much as I don't enjoy online chess. I like looking into my opponent's eyes as they push a perceived advantage and especially enjoy that moment when they go from bravely leaping into the fray to realizing they walked into a trap and are in deep doo-doo.
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In other words, a typical Sunday afternoon.
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Manny people who drink, drink daily, I only drink when socializing. I haven't drank at my house since my wedding. I'll go weeks or months without drinking.
