Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
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August 9th, 2016 at 11:03:09 AM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

The key word here is "unusual." As in, unusual activity raises a red flag for law enforcement, of all types and in all situations. Someone traveling to or from Vegas with 2-5K in cash wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Paducah, Kentucky would be a different story. But when you get to amounts like $12K or $30K, as in some of those stories (and stories is all they are), then you're unusual even for a Vegas visitor, because the TSA agent would ask a legitimate question: Why are you carrying all this CASH? A normal prudent individual wouldn't do that. If you play to gamble heavily, you should carry some cash but the rest of your roll should be in front money at the cage (sent ahead of time), cashier's checks on your person, traveler's checks, etc. If you score a big win, you should take it in the form of a check, or convert the cash into a check.

That it is just plain stupid to travel with large amounts of cash raises the red flag for TSA. The only way a sensible person would want to deal in such large amounts in cash would be if he wants his transactions to be untraceable. This usually means drug trafficking and/or money laundering--two things that get the Feds riled up. So yes, the TSA might grab the money first and ask questions later.

Where this discussion goes off the rails is people "never getting the money back." They will get it back (assuming they can show that it isn't from illegal activity) eventually. Canadians and other foreign nationals simply have to declare large amounts of cash. If they don't, their cash can be confiscated, but they'll get it back, too. What happens in their home countries is something different altogether. But we have mutual treaties with most countries re how this exact situation should be handled.

But really, why would anyone risk coming to on the floor of a men's room stall, with a bleeding head and a splitting headache, and that carryon bag nowhere to be found? When one could be carrying a cashier's check in one's wallet instead?


You say stories is all they are.Are you.implying that it doesn't happen?

Front money at the cage .Most Aps don't want the casino to know their real name.
Using a bank can help,but it's not that easy to go withdraw 20k.Also what if you need your money and the bank is closed.

Yes you can get the money back if it's seized but now you have to pay legal fees.

Carrying cash is not a crime but in this country your cash is guilty until you prove its innocence.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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August 9th, 2016 at 3:11:32 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

The key word here is "unusual." As in, unusual activity raises a red flag for law enforcement, of all types and in all situations. Someone traveling to or from Vegas with 2-5K in cash wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Paducah, Kentucky would be a different story. But when you get to amounts like $12K or $30K, as in some of those stories (and stories is all they are), then you're unusual even for a Vegas visitor, because the TSA agent would ask a legitimate question: Why are you carrying all this CASH? A normal prudent individual wouldn't do that. If you play to gamble heavily, you should carry some cash but the rest of your roll should be in front money at the cage (sent ahead of time), cashier's checks on your person, traveler's checks, etc. If you score a big win, you should take it in the form of a check, or convert the cash into a check.

That it is just plain stupid to travel with large amounts of cash raises the red flag for TSA. The only way a sensible person would want to deal in such large amounts in cash would be if he wants his transactions to be untraceable. This usually means drug trafficking and/or money laundering--two things that get the Feds riled up. So yes, the TSA might grab the money first and ask questions later.

Where this discussion goes off the rails is people "never getting the money back." They will get it back (assuming they can show that it isn't from illegal activity) eventually. Canadians and other foreign nationals simply have to declare large amounts of cash. If they don't, their cash can be confiscated, but they'll get it back, too. What happens in their home countries is something different altogether. But we have mutual treaties with most countries re how this exact situation should be handled.

But really, why would anyone risk coming to on the floor of a men's room stall, with a bleeding head and a splitting headache, and that carryon bag nowhere to be found? When one could be carrying a cashier's check in one's wallet instead?



I think you're making the "guilty until proven innocent " argument here. There are problems with every alternative you've listed. Specifically, a lot of places are no longer accepting cashier's checks due to a sharp rise in forgeries and fakes. There is a lot of paperwork involved with either depositing or withdrawing large amounts of cash, usually but not limited to 10k and above, as far as using branches of a bank. Wiring is expensive, and requires a lot of id, and lead time.

Cash movement, when legit, can still be erroneously reported to the IRS as unreported winnings or income. But having a lot of cash money is NOT illegal. I think there's a lot of official overreach in this area, and they do it simply because under current drug and laundering laws, they can. It can easily cost the amount in attorney fees to recover it, not to mention the time the money is not available to you. It needs to stop being ok to confiscate now and ask questions later.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
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August 9th, 2016 at 7:03:10 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I think you're making the "guilty until proven innocent " argument here. There are problems with every alternative you've listed. Specifically, a lot of places are no longer accepting cashier's checks due to a sharp rise in forgeries and fakes. There is a lot of paperwork involved with either depositing or withdrawing large amounts of cash, usually but not limited to 10k and above, as far as using branches of a bank. Wiring is expensive, and requires a lot of id, and lead time.

Cash movement, when legit, can still be erroneously reported to the IRS as unreported winnings or income. But having a lot of cash money is NOT illegal. I think there's a lot of official overreach in this area, and they do it simply because under current drug and laundering laws, they can. It can easily cost the amount in attorney fees to recover it, not to mention the time the money is not available to you. It needs to stop being ok to confiscate now and ask questions later.



Far from it. I'm simply acquiescing to reality, if you like. The laws in place and the instructions given to law enforcement (of which TSA is definitely a part) compound the already substantial risk attendant in hauling around large amounts of cash. OF COURSE there are practical difficulties with every alternative to cash transactions. But that's true of just about any attempt to mitigate risk, in all contexts. I would, for example, consider the $35 my bank charges to wire funds more than worth it as insurance against something happening to a wad of cash I was carrying. I did that exact thing about 25 years ago when I hit a bingo coverall for $5000. I couldn't stand the idea of some mugger hitting the jackpot or any one of many other disasters that could have happened if I'd just stuffed it all in my pockets. Specifically: I took my payment in a check, and presented it at the issuing bank the next morning with wiring instructions for my bank. At no point was the money at risk.

Everyone's perception of risk is different, I suppose, but it seems obvious that whatever you think about those evil fascists blah blah confiscating people's hard earned cash yada yada, the risk attendant to traveling with large amounts of cash has gone up due to (yes, often wrongly enforced) asset forfeiture laws. I mean, why risk any one of a number of awful outcomes just to avoid a little paperwork and/or spend a little money?

And as far as "confiscate first" is concerned, well, what should be done is that the funds are taken into custody and the owner is given a receipt. Those funds are kept in safekeeping in their original form. If related charges are not filed against the owner within, say, 30 days, the funds are returned. I would imagine that something close to that happens in most cases.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 9th, 2016 at 7:27:29 PM permalink
SA's new policelike badges a sore point with real cops
Updated 6/16/2008 10:56 AM

By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON Screeners at the nation's airport checkpoints are going to start wearing police-style badges but real officers aren't too happy about it.

Some sworn officers fear airline passengers will mistake screeners for law-enforcement officials with arrest powers.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is starting to equip its 48,000 screeners with 3-inch-by-2-inch, silver-colored, copper and zinc badges that will be worn on new royal-blue police-style shirts.

The attire aims to convey an image of authority to passengers, who have harassed, pushed and in a few instances punched screeners. "Some of our officers aren't respected," TSA spokeswoman Ellen Howe said.

Actual airport police, who carry guns and have arrest powers, worry that their own authority will be undercut by screeners who look like police. Every major airport has its own police department or is patrolled by local police.

"A lot of cops at airports are not real thrilled about it," said Duane McGray of the Airport Law Enforcement Agencies Network, an airport police association. "It's another way of saying (to airport police), 'You're not important.' "

Network president Paul Mason, chief of the Lambert-St. Louis International Airport police, worries that passengers will mistake badge-wearing screeners for police and expect them to handle crimes. "There are going to be some growing pains on the part of the (screeners) and police," he said.

Agencies often give badges to workers who aren't law-enforcement officers. At the TSA, badges are carried by 1,200 inspectors who check that airlines, airports and others comply with security rules. The Environmental Protection Agency gives badges to its 250 workers charged with overseeing cleanups of oil spills and other hazardous releases, EPA spokeswoman Roxanne Smith said.

Airport screeners will get badges after finishing a two-day training program covering issues related to badges as well as how to talk to passengers in a calming manner. Unlike police, who often are required to carry their badges while off-duty, screeners will be barred from wearing them when they are not working, TSA Deputy Administrator Gale Rossides said.

"We coupled the badges with the communications training to make it clear to our officers that they're there to facilitate our passengers," Rossides said. She said the TSA has no interest in giving screeners law-enforcement power.

In April, Baltimore-Washington International Airport screeners became the first to get badges and blue shirts, which replace white shirts adorned with a yellow TSA patch. Screeners at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport will get them today.

A.J. Castilla, a screener at Boston's Logan Airport and a spokesman for a screeners union, is eager to get a badge. "It'll go a long way to enhance the respect of this workforce," he said
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
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August 9th, 2016 at 8:10:59 PM permalink
Traveling with large sums of cash, the worry about law enforcement agents or TSA agents is pretty low on my list of prioritized concerns. On the list? Yes, down near the bottom. Next to, what if you get distracted by that crew from whatever airline and follow them down thru the terminal a bit just to watch them walk, from behind. This while my carry-on bag is back where I was sitting a couple minutes ago ;-)

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned 10K in cash leaving the country. You can take cash out of the country. I believe 10K is still the limit where you have to declare to the USA that you are departing their jurisdiction with considerably more cash than the gov't is worth..

<edit> if you travel with large sums of cash on your person you should not post that fact here, or anywhere else for that matter. Just for the record, I rarely have more than a couple hundy on me. That's official...

<2nd edit>. Actually, 10k in hundys folded in half doesn't even make a large bulge in your front pocket compared to the extra sock stuffed down in your crotch. Never caused me any problems with TSA yet.
Back when I carried cash of course ;-)

<3rd edit> I really think I've only had to do the full body scan machine once. They prolly still passing pics around and laughing at the extra sock ;-)
Last edited by: TwoFeathersATL on Aug 9, 2016
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F

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