Carnival Cruise blackjack
Any advice from those of you with more playing experience?
LostWages, I've been on 4 Carnival ships in one year, but most recent was 18 months ago.Quote: LostWagesI've been able to memorize the Wizard Strategy simple exceptions by Jeff Pepper (only 18 cells to remember!). We're getting ready to go on a Carnival Cruise trip, and I verified that they do have 3:2 blackjack, but the minimum bet starts at $10. That's a bit rich for my pocket. They do have $5 minimum to play 6:5 blackjack or "21". I am going to play recreational with a modest bankroll of $500. This will be my first time on a live blackjack table.
Any advice from those of you with more playing experience?
$10min/$1000 max 3:2 BJ was available. CSM dealt, H17, no surrender, Split to 4, DAS, NRA etc.
The $6 min table(s) are not Blackjack, but Fun21, SuperFun21 or some other variant with TOTALLY different Basic Strategy for play.
If you think you know the 'simplified Basic' from WOO (Pepper?) you probably don't in a live game setting.
You will prolly lose your money if you do play that Strategy perfect.
The more perfect you play, the longer it should take to lose.
Many people enjoy the hell out of playing, most lose.
Don't play with money you would mind losing. And yes you could win, happens frequently.
The longer you play, by Basic Strategy, the more likely you are to lose all your money, fact.
The are Advanced Strategies available, Basic is just a good foundation.
The practice game on WOO is good for practice, easy game to play.
Seems to be seriously skewed in the players favor over the long run in my experience.
Have a fun cruise! 2Feathers
2. Also, realize that the casino is completely unregulated and Carnival has been on a campaign to increase revenues from their casinos. Ask a wide-open leading question of your dealer such as "Is this game the same as the Blackjack game that I play in Las Vegas?" which gives the dealer the opportunity to tell you about any weird differences form conventional BJ. Heaven help you if they've deleted Queens from the deck, lol.
3. Watch for dealer mistakes. The dealers are usually not the world's best - for instance, they usually work another (non-casino) job on the ship when the casino is closed.
Yes! I was on a Carnival cruise last month. I was playing UTH & chatting with the dealer. He said that he had never played a hand of poker before Carnival made him a dealer!Quote: gordonm8883. Watch for dealer mistakes. The dealers are usually not the world's best
As to the OP, the last two Carnival cruises I was on, the minimum was not $5, but $6 -- they are encouraging you to place a $1 side bet. I know you said you checked, but things change without notice in casinos, so don't be surprised if you see minimums at $6. Like the others have said, I would play the $10 3:2 tables over the $5 (or possibly $6) 6:5 tables.
The good news is that a cruise ship casino is a good place to play live for the first time. You will very likely have the company of other first-timers at the tables. Even with the recent proliferation of casinos around the country, you will still find people on a cruise who have never set foot in a casino before. In my experience, the atmosphere in on-board casinos is relaxed and as stated above, the pace is typically very slow.
My advice is to play for short periods at a time and set a session win/loss limit. For instance, if you buy-in for $80, leave when you hit $160 or $0, or after 45 minutes if you haven't reached either limit. You may win, but you are more likely to lose, and when you lose, it can go fast. It would suck to lose your trip bankroll on the first day of a 7-day cruise!
And watch out, they will bring you drinks while you gamble, but they aren't free like they would be in Vegas!
Couple things in response to Gordon's post.Quote: gordonm8881. Remember the casino is open only when the ship is not in port and not within 2 hours of U.S shores.
2. Also, realize that the casino is completely unregulated and Carnival has been on a campaign to increase revenues from their casinos. Ask a wide-open leading question of your dealer such as "Is this game the same as the Blackjack game that I play in Las Vegas?" which gives the dealer the opportunity to tell you about any weird differences form conventional BJ. Heaven help you if they've deleted Queens from the deck, lol.
3. Watch for dealer mistakes. The dealers are usually not the world's best - for instance, they usually work another (non-casino) job on the ship when the casino is closed.
There is no 'two hour rule' to/from US shores. It varies wildly, and is distance based. Alaska cruises have some special considerations. Just ask once on-board and they can give you approx times both coming and going ;-)
Not sure about the 'Carnival has been on a campaign' remark. My impression is that Carnival's casino operations are contracted out to Oceans Players Club, as are several other cruise line's operating from US and a bunch more overseas. The terms of $$ flow between the parties is a mystery to me.
Royal Caribbean operates it's own casinos.
Norwegian I'm not sure about except there is a part ownership connection between major stakeholders in CET and Norwegian. Hence Norwegian Cruise promotions etc at CET properties.
And one last thought, you can't access gambling related sites (WOO) thru Carnival's onboard Internet service, they are blocked. You can send a hello to the Forum from a connection if you find one in your ports of call.
Having said that, I have my bankroll management in mind to balance out ensuring we have a fun cruise and a good time. I favor your other statement that if I play perfect Strategy, it should take longer to lose!
Appreciate your time and attention!
Your welcome. I didn't mean to sound brutal, I was trying to be truthful.Quote: LostWagesWhile I feel a little discouraged that "the longer you play by Basic Strategy, the more likely you are to lose all your money . . . ", at least I'll have some consistency in my losing (or winning) based on a reference point of the strategy card. As I gain experience like yours, perhaps I'll start learning Advanced Strategy - wish they had legalized gambling here in Hawaii.
Having said that, I have my bankroll management in mind to balance out ensuring we have a fun cruise and a good time. I favor your other statement that if I play perfect Strategy, it should take longer to lose!
Appreciate your time and attention!
And where in Hawaii are you? I was there in the early spring 2 years ago to bury my older brother on Kauai. I use the term 'bury' quite liberally. Perhaps I will cut and paste a trip report in a new thread. Something like, if you have to set-up a funeral where would be the ideal place, or something. It had been 40 years since my only other visit...... Frequently in my life I made bad choices, waiting 40 years to return to Hawaii was one of those!
We are on the island of Oahu, and my wife and I are now both retired. She is comfortable enjoying the live table game of blackjack, whereas I much prefer the quiet solitude of Video Poker. However, this upcoming trip - our first together in 10+ years - I promised I would "play a few rounds of blackjack". Here I am earnestly playing a couple of hundred hands a day on the WOO's blackjack game & trainer to impress her. She knows of my dislike of the tables. So I'm mentally ready; the emotional transition from solitary play to a table with strangers may be the more difficult challenge to manage.
Funny you talked about "burying". As my mother-in-law recently passed, my wife have had short discussions about burial (traditional), cremation and urn placement, or ash scattering. We both seem to favor the latter, and it would probably be in the mountains (a valley or near a river) or just ocean side on the North Shore.
Quote: LostWagesWhen I come to the table and get a seat, do I show my Basic Strategy card to the dealer before I put my cash on the table for chips? Of course, I'm hoping NOT to use it unless I get brain-freeze or cold feet on my first session on a live table game. Your words of experience tell me I shouldn't have to worry. Tks!
I'd have it in plain sight (though not necessarily on the felt; they don't like clutter on the table for game protection reasons) in a matter of fact way, like you expect it to not be a problem, but without making a point of it. If they do have a problem with it, I expect they'd speak up. JMHO.
I want to type a long thing here. I did yesterday and it didn't post. Aaaahhhh!Quote: JimRockfordAs long as you're playing 200 practice hands a day, go ahead and learn true basic strategy rather than a simple strategy. It's not really much harder if you practice. You'll feel better not having to look at your card very often.
Later, 2F
I see your cruise is in Oct, so you have lots of time...Quote: LostWages2F, I look forward to reading your long (or short) post about my playing 200 practice hands a day. I'm still using WOO "simple strategy", and have now learned a few exceptions to memorize. Tks!
I had said ( and it disappeared ) that I would advise learning the full Basic Strategy rather than the Simple. And I wrote down how I did it.
Someone has since started a 'How to learn Basic Strategy thread'. I will get around to adding it there. It might be of some help, might not!
Let's say my buy-in was $80, and I was up to $150. If I now announce "I'm out" and I want to leave, can I just put a $5 bet for the dealer (as my tip), but not place a bet for myself?
Is that proper etiquette? What is the "proper" way to leave a blackjack table?
Quote: LostWagesIs that proper etiquette? What is the "proper" way to leave a blackjack table?
I would just politely leave whenever you feel like it. If you don't put any money in the circle, they'll figure out you're done. :)
I say if you want to bet for the dealer but not yourself, tell them, make a normal bet, and then give them whatever is the outcome.
Normally when you want to play for a dealer, you just put the chip on the table, in front of the betting circle. If you don't want to bet for yourself but for the dealer, just bet normal and tell him the bet is for him. There is no minimum for a dealer bet when you are also betting. On a $10 table, Ill make several $1 bets for him rather than one $5 or $10 bet.
Be very careful not to tip too much. It kills your bottom line
Now, if you weren't as lucky and end up losing your buy-in (or are down to less than $25), you can just get up and leave. No explanation needed.
If you like, you can thank the dealer for his service and wish your neighbors good luck as you leave the table. As far as tipping, I usually tip in the form of $1 dealer bets as mentioned above. Occasionally, if I did very well that session, I may tip the dealer as I leave as well. However, I would suggest that if you want to give the dealer a tip when you leave, I would just hand it to him (Well, you really can't "hand" a dealer anything -- you just put the chip on the felt, slide it towards him, and say, "This is for you.") rather than make a bet for him.
The reason for this is, what happens if you (he) get dealt a hand like AA? Now, you are put in kind of an awkward situation where have to either break down one of those nice, new green chips you just got to split the A's (not to mention tipping the dealer an extra $5 that you didn't intend to), or play the hand out in a less than optimal way by just hitting.
It is always YOUR decision when to leave the table. You can leave at the end of any hand for the table. Yes, you can color up to a smaller number of chips with the same cash value, a mostly recommended approach. Or you can just slide them off the table into a burlap bag, or your underwear. No one cares! Was that really a serious question on your part?Quote: LostWagesThanks everyone for your suggestions and comments on "how to leave a blackjack table". Now I have multiple options from which to select the one with which I feel most comfortable. Counting the days to my first sit down action!
Quote: TwoFeathersATLIt is always YOUR decision when to leave the table. You can leave at the end of any hand for the table. Yes, you can color up to a smaller number of chips with the same cash value, a mostly recommended approach. Or you can just slide them off the table into a burlap bag, or your underwear. No one cares! Was that really a serious question on your part?
I'm sure it was! I don't know how you felt when you first went to a blackjack table, but I was slightly intimidated by the mechanics of things. I knew basic strategy perfectly, but it was all the "other" stuff. It's a totally legit question.
It is always YOUR decision when to leave the table. You can leave at the end of any hand for the table. Yes, you can color up to a smaller number of chips with the same cash value, a mostly recommended approach. Or you can just slide them off the table into a burlap bag, or your underwear. No one cares! Was that really a serious question on your part?
quote: MrGoldenSun
I'm sure it was! I don't know how you felt when you first went to a blackjack table, but I was slightly intimidated by the mechanics of things. I knew basic strategy perfectly, but it was all the "other" stuff. It's a totally legit question.
On second thought, it is not ALWAYS your decision when to leave the table.
There can come that 'tap on the shoulder'.
If the dealer tells you, "Feathers, can you pull back your bet for a moment" while letting other players leave their's in place, you might as well turn around and see who is standing behind you ;-)
Oh, and LostWages, I posted in the 'how did you learn Basic Strategy thread'. It was much more eloquent when I first posted the concept here, when I was sober ( the post that disappeared ). But I gave it a shot late last night, when I wasn't. Maybe I need to go read what I wrote. I'm almost scared ,-)
Thanks again for your time & attention. From the previous posts, I figured out how to get IN to a table to play the first time. So my last post was to ensure I could gracefully exit as well. Reading thru your numerous replies to postings, I've been able to sort out information I'll keep in mind and other info that I'll leave behind on the forum.
It seems like I'll be ok after my initiation to my first table game. Surely, I've gathered plenty of mind-ammo to help me enjoy that first outing.
Back to my practice sessions - I've now graduated myself to taking "quiz lets" I found on the Internet to add variety to my practicing. I'll stay a WOO Simple Strategy for now while I build my experience pool.
I have been reading the thread "How did you learn Basic Strategy . . ."
You suggested that if I buy-in for, say, $80, I should leave when I hit $160 or $0, of after 45 min if I haven't reached either limit. Other postings I've read suggest I leave when my bankroll is down 50%, or if I'm up 30-40%.
I noticed during some of my practice sessions on WOO's BJ Game & Trainer, that with good play I am fortunate enough to get a winning streak after 10 deals and end up with $52.50. The Game bankroll is $1,000 but I know my starter bankroll would indeed be $80 (to match what I do when I play VP Deuces are Wild).
So if I've made $52.50 after just 10 deals, should I (a newbie, reminder) indeed leave the table and go do something else for a while before thinking of returning to the BJ table?
I know part of the experience is recreational, and it will be for me. And it seems wise to leave when I'm winning.
Just looking for thoughts from you or other readers.
You should get up when you're hungry, bored, or distracted.
You should get up at least for a bathroom break if you make a mistake and feel like you're focusing on the past instead of what's happening now.
Otherwise, it's a lifetime session, and your win - loss will ride as it rides, hopefully close to or exceeding expectation.
I believe reading somewhere about rules that say I can tell the dealer to save my place so I can take a bathroom break (or whatever). Is that correct?
Quote: LostWagesI like adding your suggestions to my "ammunition" and "lifeline" pocket - Tks for tips, which BTW all make perfect sense to me.
I believe reading somewhere about rules that say I can tell the dealer to save my place so I can take a bathroom break (or whatever). Is that correct?
Yes. Unless you're in a really skanky place, you should be able to leave chips stacked in front of your spot and go. Ask them to hold your place, they will usually place a disc called a lammer on your bet circle to mark it in use. 10 minutes at most.
Quote: LostWagesJoeman,
You suggested that if I buy-in for, say, $80, I should leave when I hit $160 or $0, of after 45 min if I haven't reached either limit. Other postings I've read suggest I leave when my bankroll is down 50%, or if I'm up 30-40%.
I noticed during some of my practice sessions on WOO's BJ Game & Trainer, that with good play I am fortunate enough to get a winning streak after 10 deals and end up with $52.50. The Game bankroll is $1,000 but I know my starter bankroll would indeed be $80 (to match what I do when I play VP Deuces are Wild).
So if I've made $52.50 after just 10 deals, should I (a newbie, reminder) indeed leave the table and go do something else for a while before thinking of returning to the BJ table?
I know part of the experience is recreational, and it will be for me. And it seems wise to leave when I'm winning.
Just looking for thoughts from you or other readers.
LW,
You will sometimes see the terms bankroll and buy-in used interchangeably, but they really have different meanings. A buy-in is just what you put on the table for that session, while a bankroll is the total amount of money you have put aside for gambling. Sometimes, this will refer to a "trip bankroll" (which I believe you stated was $500 for the cruise). In my example, the $80 was your buy-in. Depending on how long the cruise is/how many days you will want to gamble, buying-in for 1/6 your trip bankroll is probably reasonable.
That said, my best advice to you is to do whatever you are comfortable with. Only you know what your risk/loss tolerances are. For example, I would be comfortable with losing the whole buy-in. If that possibility doesn't sit well with you, then definitely set other win/loss limits for yourself. Just be prepared, though. You could sit at the $10 table and lose your first four hands. Heck, there is a small possibility that you may lose $40 in one hand with splits & doubles. If you lose 50% of your buy-in within a minute or two of sitting down, are you going to want to get up? On the flip side, you could sit down and win 1/2 your buy-in right off the bat. I doubt you'll want to get up after you've won your first 4 hands! :)
Like Babs said, it's all just one long session. Setting limits won't make you win more or lose less; it's just a way to manage your bankroll. You are managing your money to get the most fun on your cruise. Only you know what this entails, so set limits you are comfortable with. I will say this: Since the game is -EV, it's never a bad time to get up from the table.
And, to add to Babs' fine list of "You should get up's," I would add one more: You should get up when playing is no longer enjoyable. (Although, perhaps that is just a synopsis of all of her suggestions rolled into one.)
One more thing, since you mentioned VP, the Carnival casinos I have played in have had the worst paytables I have ever seen. I don't recall what the paytables for the Deuces Wild games were, but their 25c Jacks or Better was 6/5 (returning 6 for 1 for a full house and 5 for 1 on a flush). I think this comes out to around 95% payback vs. the 99.54% payback of a full-pay 9/6 JoB.
Wow! Even with no experience, I feel like I could start writing a guide for beginners, using all these tips I'm getting from you and the other forum contributors, starting from 1st sit down to exiting the table, and all the events in-between (making 1st bet, tipping the dealer, ignoring loudmouths, leaving when it's no fun, etc.). Makes me wonder if you guys ever thought about writing a book or starting a blog (or maybe you do have these?
I am guilty of interchangeably using the terms bankroll and buy-in; I almost feel more comfortable now with that distinction, since losing my buy-in at one sitting won't be the end of the world. In my case, like you pointed out, $80 buy-in would be about 1/6 of my bankroll of $500. So if 1/6 is gone, I'd have 5 more "sessions" to enjoy my recreational journey, whether it's for later on in the day, or just another whole day later.
I think a well written blog, updated often, would yield more revenue than writing a book.
Quote: LostWagesI've been able to memorize the Wizard Strategy simple exceptions by Jeff Pepper (only 18 cells to remember!). We're getting ready to go on a Carnival Cruise trip, and I verified that they do have 3:2 blackjack, but the minimum bet starts at $10. That's a bit rich for my pocket. They do have $5 minimum to play 6:5 blackjack or "21". I am going to play recreational with a modest bankroll of $500. This will be my first time on a live blackjack table.
Any advice from those of you with more playing experience?
I would stay away from ANY game in ANY shipboard casino. Here's why: a ship at sea is essentially its own jurisdiction, subject PERHAPS to admiralty law and PERHAPS to the laws of the country in which the ship is registered (which is often someplace like Liberia, and rarely the US). My point is that you would not have ANY recourse if you were cheated. The casino could remove several ten-count cards from the shoe, for example, and you could never detect it--and the house edge would be increased by several percent (you couldn't tell, for example, if there was one less ten of diamonds, Jack of spades, Queen of hearts, and King of clubs in the shoe). While you don't have to worry about direct dealer cheating (a good cheating dealer wouldn't work for the minimum wage and the limited hours that a cruise ship provides), you have NO assurance that the game is fair. There IS NO independent monitoring or auditing of shipboard casinos, and if you somehow did feel that you were cheated, all you could do is complain to the ones who were cheating you! Good luck with that.
Aside from that, you are paying $100+ a day to be on board this ship. Presumably, that's because you are getting experiences that you can't duplicate--the onboard meals and entertainment, the ports of call, etc. But you can find a casino practically anywhere in the country--or the world--these days; there's a casino under every rock. Why spend your time and money doing something you could just as easily do by hopping in your car and driving an hour or two to your local casino?
Other people have called me paranoid (and a lot worse) for refusing to gamble in places where I have no protection from fraud and cheating and no recourse for damages, but we paranoid people tend to last longer :) Think about it. You're playing the Mega Gonzo Ship on a Shingle Progressive dollar machine and you hit the jackpot for three million dollars. The casino manager comes up to you and says, "Sorry, but Nigerian Cruise Lines has had a pretty bad year, and we're not going to pay you." What would you do? What COULD you do? (I know we're talking BJ here, but the principle is the same.)
Quote: JoeshlabotnikI would stay away from ANY game in ANY shipboard casino. Here's why: a ship at sea is essentially its own jurisdiction, subject PERHAPS to admiralty law and PERHAPS to the laws of the country in which the ship is registered (which is often someplace like Liberia, and rarely the US). My point is that you would not have ANY recourse if you were cheated. The casino could remove several ten-count cards from the shoe, for example, and you could never detect it--and the house edge would be increased by several percent (you couldn't tell, for example, if there was one less ten of diamonds, Jack of spades, Queen of hearts, and King of clubs in the shoe). While you don't have to worry about direct dealer cheating (a good cheating dealer wouldn't work for the minimum wage and the limited hours that a cruise ship provides), you have NO assurance that the game is fair. There IS NO independent monitoring or auditing of shipboard casinos, and if you somehow did feel that you were cheated, all you could do is complain to the ones who were cheating you! Good luck with that.
Aside from that, you are paying $100+ a day to be on board this ship. Presumably, that's because you are getting experiences that you can't duplicate--the onboard meals and entertainment, the ports of call, etc. But you can find a casino practically anywhere in the country--or the world--these days; there's a casino under every rock. Why spend your time and money doing something you could just as easily do by hopping in your car and driving an hour or two to your local casino?
Other people have called me paranoid (and a lot worse) for refusing to gamble in places where I have no protection from fraud and cheating and no recourse for damages, but we paranoid people tend to last longer :) Think about it. You're playing the Mega Gonzo Ship on a Shingle Progressive dollar machine and you hit the jackpot for three million dollars. The casino manager comes up to you and says, "Sorry, but Nigerian Cruise Lines has had a pretty bad year, and we're not going to pay you." What would you do? What COULD you do? (I know we're talking BJ here, but the principle is the same.)
Joe - FYI, I did avoid the Carnival Cruise BJ. The 3:2 BJ was $15 min, too rich for me. There was $10 BJ, but still rich and worse, 6:5 payoff. I was so tempted, but my mind was still screwed on tight. I really appreciated your posting! BTW, if your time and interest permits some comments, I made a full BJ TR here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/lostwages/blog/#post1411
If you enjoy reading about food journeys, I also made a 15-day blog about that too!
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/lostwages/blog/#post1410
Have a nice day,
LW
Quote: LostWagesJoe - FYI, I did avoid the Carnival Cruise BJ. The 3:2 BJ was $15 min, too rich for me. There was $10 BJ, but still rich and worse, 6:5 payoff. I was so tempted, but my mind was still screwed on tight. I really appreciated your posting! BTW, if your time and interest permits some comments, I made a full BJ TR here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/lostwages/blog/#post1411
If you enjoy reading about food journeys, I also made a 15-day blog about that too!
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/lostwages/blog/#post1410
Have a nice day,
LW
Someone asking Joeshlabotnik to comment more...
Now I really have seen everything.
