2016 Election -- Part II
Poll
 | 57 votes (47.89%) | ||
| | 33 votes (27.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (10.08%) | ||
| | 10 votes (8.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.36%) | ||
| | 3 votes (2.52%) |
119 members have voted
Quote: SOOPOOPossible, but unlikely. He will likely keep bashing Trump without endorsing Hillary... it may have the same result.
My latest prediction.... it is possible Trump will finally make a buffoonish comment he can't escape from and ends up with ZERO electoral votes. What odds could I get?
Odds would have to be huge. 19-to-1 was mentioned in a comment below; seems like it would need to be even higher than that given the number of states that go red no matter who or what is on the ballot. Even if Trump dropped out I would bet Idaho, Wyoming, Alabama, a few others would still vote for him.
Quote: MathExtremistI'm up for firing it out. What does a face-saving, ego-preserving, spinnable event look like that leads to Trump dropping out of the race? Being offered some think tank position?
I would pay a well-known member of BLM to "assassinate" me. I could probably get a good price since he'd be considered a national hero. This would also get out me of my tax problems and, as far as my supporters were concerned, I'd go out like a g.
Quote: RonCSo the gist of this is that you don't really think that Trump said that the IRS would not let him release the returns and that it was his decision not to do so while he was being audited. ..
Warren Buffet just called out Trump and his BS on this issue
Warren Buffet is being audited just like Trump
Warren Buffet has no problem releasing his tax returns
At this point, I don't believe anything Trump says
Its just lie after lie
He said the NFL sent him a letter regarding the debate schedule
Its a lie. NFL never sent him a letter.
BS smell is awful and growing lol
Quote: terapinedWarren Buffet just called out Trump and his BS on this issue
Warren Buffet is being audited just like Trump
Warren Buffet has no problem releasing his tax returns
At this point, I don't believe anything Trump says
Its just lie after lie
He said the NFL sent him a letter regarding the debate schedule
Its a lie. NFL never sent him a letter.
BS smell is awful and growing lol
But the righties are all up in arms about Hillary's response to the email question in her interview on Sunday.
It's just hypocritical B.S.
They hold Trump to a much much much much much lower standard than any other politician in history.
See, this is why I think he's throwing the race. At first he was making rude comments about the stuff that many traditional, non-elite GOP voters don't mind being rude about. Political correctness, race, non-Christian religions, women, etc. Like it or not, there is a long history of bias regarding those issues in that voting group.Quote: terapinedWarren Buffet just called out Trump and his BS on this issue
Warren Buffet is being audited just like Trump
Warren Buffet has no problem releasing his tax returns
At this point, I don't believe anything Trump says
Its just lie after lie
He said the NFL sent him a letter regarding the debate schedule
Its a lie. NFL never sent him a letter.
BS smell is awful and growing lol
But now he's going after military families and the NFL.
If he hits NASCAR and country music next, we'll know he's tanking on purpose.
I don't think he wants to go all the way out, I just think he wants to exit so he can get on with his next career as a highly-paid former presidential candidate. I'd expect the movie proceeds alone to be in the $50M range, and that's just domestically. Who knows what kind of foreign "partnerships" he has lined up afterwards.Quote: RogerKintI would pay a well-known member of BLM to "assassinate" me. I could probably get a good price since he'd be considered a national hero. This would also get out me of my tax problems and, as far as my supporters were concerned, I'd go out like a g.
No, I think he doesn't want to die. I also don't think he thought his sham campaign would go this far, though, and he didn't actually have an exit strategy for if he won the nomination.
Imagine if this were America's Got Talent or The Voice. All the other contestants were demonstrating their talents along the way, but Trump just stands at the lectern and angrily exclaims "I'm gonna sing so well, you won't believe it, when I sing it will be terrific! That last contestant, she was terrible, a shrill harpy. The other guy, no energy, just stood there mumbling. I'll be the greatest singer you ever heard, trust me." Except somehow, the audience always votes him through to the next round without him ever singing a note.
But THIS makes me giddy:
Trump refuses to support Paul Ryan, John McCain in upcoming Republican primaries
Quote:Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is refusing to back House Speaker Paul D. Ryan in his upcoming primary election, saying in an interview Tuesday that he is “not quite there yet” in endorsing his party’s top-ranking elected official.
Trump also said he was not supporting Sen. John McCain in his primary in Arizona, and he singled out Sen. Kelly Ayotte as a weak and disloyal leader in New Hampshire, a state whose presidential primary Trump won handily.
Me right now:
Quote: MathExtremistSee, this is why I think he's throwing the race. At first he was making rude comments about the stuff that many traditional, non-elite GOP voters don't mind being rude about. Political correctness, race, non-Christian religions, women, etc. Like it or not, there is a long history of bias regarding those issues in that voting group.
But now he's going after military families and the NFL.
If he hits NASCAR and country music next, we'll know he's tanking on purpose.
Even if he hits NASCAR and country music next, RonC is still an undecided on Trump.
Unknown ailment.
He could literally just collapse at the podium.
Doctor orders him off his feet. He has to undergo extensive testing. yada yada yada.
Quote: MathExtremistSee, this is why I think he's throwing the race. At first he was making rude comments about the stuff that many traditional, non-elite GOP voters don't mind being rude about. Political correctness, race, non-Christian religions, women, etc. Like it or not, there is a long history of bias regarding those issues in that voting group.
But now he's going after military families and the NFL.
If he hits NASCAR and country music next, we'll know he's tanking on purpose.
The Trump evolution:
1) I think I'll run for President; I'm bored
2) Wow, this is fun! People really like me
3) Oh shit, I never should have said those things
4) WTF? My poll numbers actually INCREASED after I said them? Who else can I insult?
5) Might as well attack my primary opponents too
6) Woo hoo! I'm going to be the 126th President of the United States!
7) Hmmm...who haven't I insulted yet?
8) I know--parents of soldiers killed in action!
9) Oh shit, I'm behind by three percentage points now
10) WAAH! I quit! Everybody's a cheater! I'm gonna take my ball and go home!
I sincerely hope he stays in the race to the bitter end and gets his ass royally kicked, dragging down various and sundry Republicans with him. He's now making a desperation plea to fleeing Republicans that yes, they may hate him, but only he will nominate right-wing judges to the Supreme Court. Does he think for even a second that Democrats will confirm a Republican-backed Supreme Court candidate, after all the obstructionism? Payback's a bitch, as they say...
By the way, what DOES happen if a candidate quits/drops dead/is hit by a runaway cement truck/etc.? Does the party hold a hurried re-nomination convention, or does the Veep candidate step into the previous candidate's shoes?
Quote: rxwineAn out for Trump.
Unknown ailment.
He could literally just collapse at the podium.
Doctor orders him off his feet. He has to undergo extensive testing. yada yada yada.
This would also seem to fulfill the Back To The Future prophecies where Biff (DT) appears ill and is never heard from again.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikBy the way, what DOES happen if a candidate quits/drops dead/is hit by a runaway cement truck/etc.? Does the party hold a hurried re-nomination convention, or does the Veep candidate step into the previous candidate's shoes?
I don't know, if so, Mike Pence was a better choice than Gingrich.
The only (good) reason I can think of Pence taking up with Trump is he secretly hopes to be sitting in the catbird's seat if Trump goes down. (the bad reason, is Pence is actually delusional)
Meg Whitman, Republican Chris Christie-supporter, has endorsed Hillary and pledges to raise "mid-six figures" to help her campaign.
Cue righties talking about how they never liked Meg and how she's a RINO in 3......2......1
Quote: ams288The snowball is starting to roll down the hill:
Meg Whitman, Republican Chris Christie-supporter, has endorsed Hillary and pledges to raise "mid-six figures" to help her campaign.
Cue righties talking about how they never liked Meg and how she's a RINO in 3......2......1
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/politics/meg-whitman-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0
An article from NYT (bold text emphasized by me):
Meg Whitman, Calling Donald Trump a ‘Demagogue,’ Will Support Hillary Clinton for President
Meg Whitman, a Hewlett Packard executive and Republican fund-raiser, said Tuesday that she would support Hillary Clinton for president and give a “substantial” contribution to her campaign in order to stop Donald J. Trump, whom she berated as a threat to American democracy.
“I will vote for Hillary, I will talk to my Republican friends about helping her, and I will donate to her campaign and try to raise money for her,” Ms. Whitman said in a telephone interview.
She revealed that Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic nominee, had reached out to her in a phone call about a month ago, one of the first indications that Mrs. Clinton is aggressively courting Republican leaders. While acknowledging she diverged from Mrs. Clinton on many policy issues, Ms. Whitman said it was time for Republicans “to put country first before party.”
Using remarkably blunt language, she argued that the election of Mr. Trump, whom she called “a dishonest demagogue,” could lead the country “on a very dangerous journey.” She noted that democracies had seldom lasted longer than a few hundred years and warned that those who say that “it can’t happen here” are being naïve.
Ms. Whitman also said she “absolutely” stood by her comments at a private gathering of Republican donors this year comparing Mr. Trump to Hitler and Mussolini, explaining that dictators often come to office through democratic means.
“Time and again history has shown that when demagogues have gotten power or come close to getting power, it usually does not end well,” Ms. Whitman said. She asserted that Mr. Trump had already “undermined the character of the nation.”
A billionaire who spent $140 million of her own money in a failed bid for governor of California in 2010, Ms. Whitman, the former chief executive of eBay, is a prized defector for Mrs. Clinton. She is close to Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican nominee; has deep ties to the country’s business elite; and is a rare female Republican executive in Silicon Valley.
While many leading Republican donors have made clear that they will not donate to Mr. Trump, few have taken the next step of throwing their support, and financial largess, to Mrs. Clinton.
Ms. Whitman was a leading fund-raiser for Mr. Romney’s 2008 presidential campaign and was a chairwoman of Gov. Chris Christie’s presidential finance team this year. But after Mr. Christie withdrew from the campaign and endorsed Mr. Trump, Ms. Whitman excoriated the New Jersey governor for what she said was an “astonishing display of political opportunism.”
On Tuesday, Ms. Whitman said she had not spoken to Mr. Christie since he endorsed Mr. Trump, and pointedly noted that she had not changed her view of his decision.
Ms. Whitman, who said she would remain a Republican, brings with her a considerable network of contributors, some of whom she said were open to giving to Mrs. Clinton. She said she was willing to campaign for Mrs. Clinton, said she would do her best to gather checks for her campaign and indicated she would personally give to both Mrs. Clinton and her affiliated “super PACs.” An aide to Ms. Whitman said she would personally give at least an amount in the “mid-six figures” to the Clinton effort.
Quote: ams288The snowball is starting to roll down the hill:
Meg Whitman, Republican Chris Christie-supporter, has endorsed Hillary and pledges to raise "mid-six figures" to help her campaign.
Cue righties talking about how they never liked Meg and how she's a RINO in 3......2......1
Trump really unifies America. Another Christie's confidant, Maria Comella, plans to vote for Hillary Clinton.
"Donald Trump has been a demagogue this whole time, preying on people's anxieties with loose information and salacious rhetoric, drumming up fear and hatred of the 'other,'" Comella said.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/02/politics/maria-comella-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/
Quote: ams288The snowball is starting to roll down the hill:
Meg Whitman, Republican Chris Christie-supporter, has endorsed Hillary and pledges to raise "mid-six figures" to help her campaign.
Cue righties talking about how they never liked Meg and how she's a RINO in 3......2......1
Here is another one.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/sally-bradshaw-jeb-bush-donald-trump-florida/
Jeb Bush's top adviser, Sally Bradshaw, has left the Republican Party to become an independent, and says if the presidential race in Florida is close, she'll vote for Hillary Clinton.
Bradshaw, who's been close to the former Florida governor for decades and was senior adviser to his 2016 campaign, officially switched her registration to unaffiliated. She told CNN's Jamie Gangel in an email interview that the GOP is "at a crossroads and have nominated a total narcissist -- a misogynist -- a bigot."
"This is a time when country has to take priority over political parties. Donald Trump cannot be elected president," Bradshaw said.
The departure from the Republican Party of a Bush loyalist -- Bradshaw began her career working for George H.W. Bush's 1988 campaign -- is the latest sign of an influential and respected member of the GOP establishment turning against Trump.
"This election cycle is a test," Bradshaw said. "As much as I don't want another four years of (President Barack) Obama's policies, I can't look my children in the eye and tell them I voted for Donald Trump. I can't tell them to love their neighbor and treat others the way they wanted to be treated, and then vote for Donald Trump. I won't do it."
Her decision comes amid controversy over Trump's criticism of the family of an Muslim-American soldier killed in action in Iraq in 2004. Bradshaw called that remark "despicable," saying it "made me sick to my stomach."
"Donald Trump belittled a woman who gave birth to a son who died fighting for the United States. If anything, that reinforced my decision to become an independent voter," she said. "Every family who loses a loved one in service to our country or who has a family member who serves in the military should be honored, regardless of their political views. Vets and their family have more than earned the right to those views. Someone with the temperament to be president would understand and respect that."
Bradshaw said the latest incident reinforced how she was feeling about the decision she's long weighed.
Her move goes beyond what other Republicans have said or done, although many top leaders in the GOP -- including Sen. John McCain, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Sen. Mitch McConnell, among others -- have made it clear that they have a big problem with Trump's comments about a Gold Star family. But none have, as of yet, withdrawn their endorsements or support.
"I've been considering the switch for months. Ultimately, I could not abide the hateful rhetoric of Donald Trump and his complete lack of principles and conservative philosophy," she said. "I didn't make this decision lightly -- I have worked hard to make our party a place where all would feel welcome. But Trump has taken the GOP in another direction, and too many Republicans are standing by and looking the other way."
Bradshaw served as Jeb Bush's campaign manager when Bush ran unsuccessfully for Florida governor in the early 1990s and again four years later when he won.
Bradshaw said she hasn't yet decided who she'll vote for -- though "it obviously won't be Trump. I haven't made a decision yet between Clinton, Gary Johnson or writing in a candidate."
"If the race in Florida is close, I will vote for Hillary Clinton," she said. "That is a very difficult statement for me to make. I disagree with her on several important issues. I have worked to elect Republicans to national and statewide offices for the last 30 years. I have never voted for a Democrat for president, and I consider myself a conservative, a supporter of limited government, gun rights, free enterprise, equality of opportunity. I am pro-life. There are no other candidates who were serious contenders for the nomination that I would not have supported.
"But," she said, "we are at a crossroads and have nominated a total narcissist -- a misogynist -- a bigot. This is a time when country has to take priority over political parties. Donald Trump cannot be elected president."
Analyzing the GOP primary in which Jeb Bush failed to attract a significant share of the vote and dropped out early, Bradshaw pointed to a fractured field, with Trump able to consistently capture one-third of the vote early.
"I really fault the candidates who did not speak out against Trump until the end of the primary cycle. Lindsay Graham and Jeb Bush spoke out early and consistently -- but most did not, fearful of offending that segment of the party or positioning themselves for future office," she said in her email.
Bradshaw said she sees voting against Trump as "the only real choice for reasonable, thoughtful Republicans to make."
"Our president must represent what is good about America -- a belief in opportunity for all -- regardless of race and gender and background -- to rise up and live the American dream," she said. "A president can't tear down Hispanics, or mock someone who is disabled, or use symbols in campaign literature that Jewish voters understandably find offensive. To continue to be the hope of the world, all Americans regardless of party affiliation have to reject him."
She added: "If and when the party regains its sanity, I'll be ready to return. But until Republicans send a message to party leadership that this cannot stand, nothing will ever change."
You know, that could be the exit he's looking for. If it starts to look like a Reagan-esque landslide for Hillary in the polls, Trump can simply say "Actually, my only goal was to unify the country and break down the partisan walls that have led to such gridlock in government. By focusing your efforts on me, you have learned to work together toward a common goal. I am your scapegoat, and I will now take all your sins into the wilderness so you may live in a state of righteous purity. God bless you all."Quote: 777Trump really unifies America. Another Christie's confidant, Maria Comella, plans to vote for Hillary Clinton.
"I said I'd make America great again, and now you are. My job here is finished." *Mic drop*
http://robertreich.org/
(Of course, RR has some very negative things to say about Trump, which is fine. So do I!)
It's. That. Bad.
Donald Trump spokesperson Katrina Pierson appeared on CNN for an interview
She blamed Capt. Humayun Khan death on Obama
She said Obama’s changes to the rules of engagement in Iraq caused his death
WTF
Khan died in 2004 when Bush was President. Obama was just a senator
amazing
Quote: terapinedTrump supporters are really struggling to defend Trump on this Gold star Khan family debacle
Donald Trump spokesperson Katrina Pierson appeared on CNN for an interview
She blamed Capt. Humayun Khan death on Obama
She said Obama’s changes to the rules of engagement in Iraq caused his death
WTF
Khan died in 2004 when Bush was President. Obama was just a senator
amazing
Last night word came out that Paul Manafort has basically given up on trying to tell Trump how a campaign should be run and that staffers are "suicidal."
I wonder if Katrina Pierson is one of the "suicidal" staffers....
#KatrinaPiersonHistory has been trending on Twitter for hours:
Some examples:
"Obama knew about that iceberg but didn't warn the captain of the Titanic #KatrinaPiersonHistory"
"The South was winning the Civil War, but then Obama issued a Stand Down order #KatrinaPiersonHistory"
etc....
Quote: ams288LOL - all the talk on the morning shows this morning is "what happens if Trump drops out of the race."
It's. That. Bad.
I believe it's that good.
One lies, the other swears to it. Where have we heard this before?
Quote: 777.
"This election cycle is a test," Bradshaw said. "As much as I don't want another four years of (President Barack) Obama's policies, I can't look my children in the eye and tell them I voted for Donald Trump.
I guess this is me now.... I could have easily voted and supported, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich.
Does anyone know what happens if Trump drops out now? Pence? Cruz? Party bosses get together and draw straws?
Quote: SOOPOOI guess this is me now.... I could have easily voted and supported, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich.
Does anyone know what happens if Trump drops out now? Pence? Cruz? Party bosses get together and draw straws?
"Rule 9 of the Republican National Committee rules governs "Filling Vacancies in Nominations," and stipulates that should the party's presidential or vice presidential candidate leave the ticket for whatever reason, the hole may be filled either by a reconvening of the national convention or by the party committee itself. The vice presidential nominee is not given any preferential consideration."
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/what-happens-if-a-candidate-say-donald-trump-drops-out-of-the-presidential-race.html
I am not sure what they would have to do to get a new nominee on all the ballots...there could be a bunch of different deadlines.
No, no, it's only not okay when Hillary lies. Trump has set the bar so low that it's perfectly acceptable when he does it. It's all about managing expectations. People hold Hillary to a high standard because she's capable of living up to it, and it's disappointing when she doesn't. Nobody expects Trump to be presidential, and he lives up to that expectation.Quote: billryanTrumps campaign manager just blamed the Clinton/ Obama administration for Khans death. That's after 12 hours of his Spokeswoman getting lambasted for saying the same thing.
One lies, the other swears to it. Where have we heard this before?
It's like being disappointed when you get a crappy hamburger at a high-end steakhouse, but not being disappointed when you get the same quality hamburger out of a microwave at a gas station. You never had high expectations for the latter so it's hard to be upset when those low expectations are met.
But we shouldn't be electing a man with the quality of a microwaved hamburger. Aim higher.
Quote: MathExtremist<snip>No, no, it's only not okay when Hillary lies. <snip>
It is not okay when either one of them lies. With so many lies between them, one has a hard time finding the truth.
Hey, Hey !Quote: RonC"Rule 9 of the Republican National Committee rules governs "Filling Vacancies in Nominations," and stipulates that should the party's presidential or vice presidential candidate leave the ticket for whatever reason, the hole may be filled either by a reconvening of the national convention or by the party committee itself. The vice presidential nominee is not given any preferential consideration.".
Scott Walker may not be out of this race after all ;-)
Reducing it to that simple comparison is like equating a pilot light to a forest fire. It's not just a matter of degree, but of kind. The solution to "politics as usual" is not "let's burn down the whole system and invite a nuke-wielding firebrand to run the country." Politics as usual is far, far more preferable to that.Quote: RonCIt is not okay when either one of them lies. With so many lies between them, one has a hard time finding the truth.
Convictions
Ultimately the Clintons were never charged, but 15 other persons were convicted of more than 40 crimes, including Bill Clinton's successor as governor, who was removed from office.[43]
Jim Guy Tucker: Governor of Arkansas at the time, removed from office (fraud, 3 counts)
John Haley: attorney for Jim Guy Tucker (tax evasion)
William J. Marks, Sr.: Jim Guy Tucker's business partner (conspiracy)
Stephen Smith: former Governor Clinton aide (conspiracy to misapply funds). Bill Clinton pardoned.
Webster Hubbell: Clinton political supporter; Rose Law Firm partner (embezzlement, fraud)
Jim McDougal: banker, Clinton political supporter: (18 felonies, varied)
Susan McDougal: Clinton political supporter (multiple frauds). Bill Clinton pardoned.
David Hale: banker, self-proclaimed Clinton political supporter: (conspiracy, fraud)
Neal Ainley: Perry County Bank president (embezzled bank funds for Clinton campaign)
Chris Wade: Whitewater real estate broker (multiple loan fraud). Bill Clinton pardoned.
Larry Kuca: Madison real estate agent (multiple loan fraud)
Robert W. Palmer: Madison appraiser (conspiracy). Bill Clinton pardoned.
John Latham: Madison Bank CEO (bank fraud)
Eugene Fitzhugh: Whitewater defendant (multiple bribery)
Charles Matthews: Whitewater defendant (bribery)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_controversy
Quote: MathExtremist
But we shouldn't be electing a man with the quality of a microwaved hamburger. Aim higher.
Please make this a slogan. When you get the signage, I'll take two.
Quote: MathExtremistThe solution to "politics as usual" is not "let's burn down the whole system and invite a nuke-wielding firebrand to run the country."
Why not?
I mean, excluding the nuke part, obviously that cannot happen. But do you not think that any part of it is the answer?
I am hugely biased on this topic, but I believe disaster is necessary, and when played correctly, a huge benefit to civilization. I could be wrong in this regard, but wasn't the disaster of WWII the catalyst for viewing women as equals, when they were all that was left to man our industry? Did you see what the disaster of 9/11 did to the people of NY? All class, race, religion, gone. Nothing but human helping human. I live smack in the middle of an old growth forest. It ain't never been touched by man and stands today as it's stood since trees came to be. But someday, the best thing for its health and survival will be to burn to the ground.
I've felt this way for as long as I can remember about our country. I've always viewed our way of life as a ruse, and always expected one day that the bagman was coming for his pay. Somewhen, somebody is going to have to stand up and say "Enough". At some point, we're going to have to accept the hurt and work on rebuilding, rather than continuing to postpone the hurt until it's fatal. And maybe I'm just lost in my own romanticism and whimsy, but that time seems due. And seeing the sad, pathetic state of affairs, all I can think is "Why the f#$% not now?"
Let's light this candle.
Quote: MathExtremistReducing it to that simple comparison is like equating a pilot light to a forest fire. It's not just a matter of degree, but of kind. The solution to "politics as usual" is not "let's burn down the whole system and invite a nuke-wielding firebrand to run the country." Politics as usual is far, far more preferable to that.
Thank you for putting words in my mouth. Saying that there are "so many lies between them" is not support for one over the other, it is a fact of life.
Whether you or I like it or not, the "let's burn down the whole system and invite a nuke-wielding firebrand to run the country" crowd is larger than normal this election cycle because the "politics as usual" politicians in both parties continue doing just that...politics as usual. That, coupled with the level of distrust that folks have in HRC, means the election may be closer than it should be.
I know 777-777-7777 will never believe this, but Trump has done more lately to make me want to not vote at all than to make me want to vote for him.
I was raised a Southern Democrat.
I miss the Southern Democrats in some ways, on days I'm feeling nostalgic.......
Quote: RonCThank you for putting words in my mouth. Saying that there are "so many lies between them" is not support for one over the other, it is a fact of life.
Whether you or I like it or not, the "let's burn down the whole system and invite a nuke-wielding firebrand to run the country" crowd is larger than normal this election cycle because the "politics as usual" politicians in both parties continue doing just that...politics as usual. That, coupled with the level of distrust that folks have in HRC, means the election may be closer than it should be.
I know 777-777-7777 will never believe this, but Trump has done more lately to make me want to not vote at all than to make me want to vote for him.
Can't speak for 777, but I, for one , don't believe that. If it is true, you certainly have a bizarre way of showing it.
With all the talk of "intervention," is Pence being teed up to take over for Trump?
A forest does not survive when it burns to the ground. It is reborn, but it is made of different trees.Quote: FaceWhy not?
I mean, excluding the nuke part, obviously that cannot happen. But do you not think that any part of it is the answer?
I am hugely biased on this topic, but I believe disaster is necessary, and when played correctly, a huge benefit to civilization.
I could be wrong in this regard, but wasn't the disaster of WWII the catalyst for viewing women as equals, when they were all that was left to man our industry? Did you see what the disaster of 9/11 did to the people of NY? All class, race, religion, gone. Nothing but human helping human. I live smack in the middle of an old growth forest. It ain't never been touched by man and stands today as it's stood since trees came to be. But someday, the best thing for its health and survival will be to burn to the ground.
The old ones are dead.
9/11 was a terrible disaster, but it wasn't the end of our political system. If you had a big red button that immediately disbanded every government agency in the country, would you push it? And what would you replace it with? I assume it's not "Donald Trump doing everything," not that he would in any event, so what would it be?
Quote: billryanCan't speak for 777, but I, for one , don't believe that. If it is true, you certainly have a bizarre way of showing it.
I just can't jump in and support HRC at all; that makes me an "uneducated Trumper" to use a term levied against me. I am neither, but who really cares about the truth around here anymore?
I don't like the Clintons. Never have. I guess that makes me whatever all the judgmental folks out there decide it makes me.
Quote: Face
I mean, excluding the nuke part, obviously that cannot happen. But do you not think that any part of it is the answer?
I am hugely biased on this topic, but I believe disaster is necessary
Not really. Disaster can bring change, but not the kind anyone wants. Also, change, desired or otherwise, doesn't need disaster as a catalyst. The disaster of WW2 didn't really empower women. American society viewed them as a stopgap to solve wartime labor shortages; they were expected to go back to their kitchens afterward. And most of them did, to make babies. It took two more decades for women's rights to even become a serious concept in the US. Would that have happened even without the war? Almost certainly, and probably on not all that different of a timeline. Did the sixty million killed in the war include some people who would have been catalysts for great social change, inventors, innovators, humanitarians, etc.? Almost certainly. From a societal standpoint, it was an unprecedented disaster.
Likewise, 9/11 may have brought New Yorkers and the nation together, but that lasted about as long as a Donald Trump tweet. Moreover, we got into the Afghanistan/Iraq quagmires as a direct result of 9/11. Whatever temporary solidarity we obtained, I doubt that the thousands of people killed on 9/11 or the thousands of soldiers killed since then would have said it was worth it.
And you know why NOT "now"? Because in revolutions, people suffer. People die. And the new that replaces the old isn't necessarily better. Sometimes it's far worse. Sometimes it's the new boss is the same as the old boss, as in Putin's Russia, or when the Big Guava replaces the Big Mango after La Revolution.
It may be frustrating to live with slow, incremental change, but ultimately, it's the only kind of change that works. At least the only kind that doesn't produce unacceptable death and misery.
Quote: Face
I am hugely biased on this topic, but I believe disaster is necessary, and when played correctly, a huge benefit to civilization.
I've felt this way for as long as I can remember about our country. I've always viewed our way of life as a ruse, and always expected one day that the bagman was coming for his pay. Somewhen, somebody is going to have to stand up and say "Enough". At some point, we're going to have to accept the hurt and work on rebuilding, rather than continuing to postpone the hurt until it's fatal. And maybe I'm just lost in my own romanticism and whimsy, but that time seems due. And seeing the sad, pathetic state of affairs, all I can think is "Why the f#$% not now?"
Let's light this candle.
Exactly right. Like when the forest gets overgrown, out of control. and filled with kindling. Let the lightning strike and burn the place out to clear-cut conditions. USA society IMHO has rotted to that point. Time for a clearing-out. Gonna be painful but very near the point of no other choice.
Quote: AZDuffmanUSA society IMHO has rotted to that point. Time for a clearing-out. Gonna be painful but very near the point of no other choice.
LOL - nonsense like this is why no one takes you seriously.
NH - Hillary +17
Pennsylvania - Hillary +11
Michigan - Hillary +9
Trump's narrow strategy of getting to 270 by focusing on Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan ain't looking too good right now.
Quote: ams288Three new swing state polls out today:
NH - Hillary +17
Pennsylvania - Hillary +11
Michigan - Hillary +9
Trump's narrow strategy of getting to 270 by focusing on Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan ain't looking too good right now.
I'm sure that Trump, AZDuffman, and RonC are telling us that those polls are "rigged" by the gol-durn liburrul biased Hillary-loving media. You'll have to confirm that for me--I'm ignoring all three. Trump loved polls when they showed he was ahead. Now, not so much. He might have trouble getting to 270 VOTES come November.
I think when even Fox News--that bastion of conservative truthiness--admits that the OO is trailing in the polls, it's time for him to hang it up and slink back to his penthouse. But gee--there are so many people left to insult!
Quote: JoeshlabotnikI'm sure that Trump, AZDuffman, and RonC are telling us that those polls are "rigged" by the gol-durn liburrul biased Hillary-loving media. You'll have to confirm that for me--I'm ignoring all three. Trump loved polls when they showed he was ahead. Now, not so much. He might have trouble getting to 270 VOTES come November.
I think when even Fox News--that bastion of conservative truthiness--admits that the OO is trailing in the polls, it's time for him to hang it up and slink back to his penthouse. But gee--there are so many people left to insult!
This will be the Trump-apologist playbook going into the election:
1) "Polls don't matter until after Labor Day"
Post-Labor Day:
2) "Polls don't matter until after the first debate."
Post-first debate:
3) "Look at *insert outlier poll number (most likely Rasmussen) here*! Trump is closing the gap!"
Post-second debate:
4) "The polls are skewed! Unskew the polls! Screw Nate Silver!"
Post-third debate:
5) "E-mails! Where are the e-mails?!"
Weekend before election day:
6) "BENGHAZIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Quote: ams288Three new swing state polls out today:
NH - Hillary +17
Pennsylvania - Hillary +11
Michigan - Hillary +9
Trump's narrow strategy of getting to 270 by focusing on Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan ain't looking too good right now.
Trump's shrinking electoral map
There are growing signs that Colorado, a key Western swing state, is no longer in play.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/colorado-trump-shrinking-electoral-map-226653
ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November
An Electoral College map released Thursday from the University of Virginia Center for Politics projected Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton winning the November election by a landslide.
http://www.businessinsider.com/electoral-college-hillary-clinton-trump-uva-2016-8
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/was-melania-trump-an-illegal-also-argh
Yet you're still here. What should we take away from that sad state of affairs? That you're a masochist?Quote: AZDuffmanUSA society IMHO has rotted to that point. Time for a clearing-out. Gonna be painful but very near the point of no other choice.
You've got three options. You can go somewhere else to a society that embodies your values, you can take steps to "correct" your current society, or you can simply sit on your ass and complain about how rotten that society is. You've chosen the path of incessant complaining and zero action. Well done.
It's life, writ small. Creatures that don't adapt eventually find their changing environment uninhabitable and go extinct. Fortunately, our rotten society is taking steps to ensure that young, uneducated white men don't grow up to be old, uneducated, angry white men. Thirty years from now there won't be enough of the Trump demographic to matter.
Hopefully there aren't enough now.
