Picking a WINNER

Anyone have a theory or knowledge on winning giveaways where you have to make a selection from a row(s) of objects that reveals if you have won a prize?
Under the premise that most people are right handed I usually make my choice from the left side towards the bottom. That hasn’t proven to be necessarily better than a random choice, so I’m curious if anyone knows if there is any “system” that games of chance use when hiding their prize.

Quote: technics

Anyone have a theory or knowledge on winning giveaways where you have to make a selection from a row(s) of objects that reveals if you have won a prize?
Under the premise that most people are right handed I usually make my choice from the left side towards the bottom. That hasn’t proven to be necessarily better than a random choice, so I’m curious if anyone knows if there is any “system” that games of chance use when hiding their prize.
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technics,

My empirical evidence strongly suggests that the big prize is found under the squares that I failed to play :-(

Dog Hand

Quote: technics

Anyone have a theory or knowledge on winning giveaways where you have to make a selection from a row(s) of objects that reveals if you have won a prize?
Under the premise that most people are right handed I usually make my choice from the left side towards the bottom. That hasn’t proven to be necessarily better than a random choice, so I’m curious if anyone knows if there is any “system” that games of chance use when hiding their prize.
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If you are talking slot game bonus prizes, most of these are predetermined. Therefore, it does not matter which choices you make. The symbols that are revealed are not placed into those spots until the reveal. Sometimes, the help screen explicitly states that the picks are all for entertainment value. They do not affect you prize.

If you can play at an online casino in demo mode, you could gather statistics on the prizes and see if your choice patterns affect your results. The results will converge quicker if you can find a game where you can buy the bonus round. You can use a bot to gather statistics. The use of bots may be against the TOS at your site, so be careful.

Quote: Mental

If you are talking slot game bonus prizes, most of these are predetermined. Therefore, it does not matter which choices you make. The symbols that are revealed are not placed into those spots until the reveal.

Not true at all. In regulated gaming jurisdictions if the prizes not picked are revealed they were available in that position to be won. It is the games that do not reveal all of the possible items that were probably predetermined.

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental

If you are talking slot game bonus prizes, most of these are predetermined. Therefore, it does not matter which choices you make. The symbols that are revealed are not placed into those spots until the reveal.

Not true at all. In regulated gaming jurisdictions if the prizes not picked are revealed they were available in that position to be won. It is the games that do not reveal all of the possible items that were probably predetermined.
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Blood Suckers is a regulated game, and the symbols in the coffins are definitely moved around after you pick. All off the remaining coffins are revealed/opened after the bonus round ends. How do you square that with your contention?

Quote: Mental

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental

If you are talking slot game bonus prizes, most of these are predetermined. Therefore, it does not matter which choices you make. The symbols that are revealed are not placed into those spots until the reveal.

Not true at all. In regulated gaming jurisdictions if the prizes not picked are revealed they were available in that position to be won. It is the games that do not reveal all of the possible items that were probably predetermined.
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Blood Suckers is a regulated game, and the symbols in the coffins are definitely moved around after you pick. All off the remaining coffins are revealed/opened after the bonus round ends. How do you square that with your contention?
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I have no idea what Blood Suckers is, who manufactures it and in which jurisdictions is it approved? If it is by IGT, Bally, Sci Games, etc. it will be legit.

Blood Suckers is a NETENT game available in regulated online casinos in the US. In the bonus round you are presented with 12 coffins. You pick coffins until you open an empty coffin. Non-empty coffins have cash prizes. After you open an empty coffin, all coffins are opened revealing that there are nine occupied coffins and three empty coffins. If the bonus round is played fairly, then you should expect to bust out on the first pick one time out of four. In the actual game, whichever coffin you pick first will always be occupied. It is clear that the contents of a coffin can change after the bonus round starts. Maybe, all coffins are full at the start of the bonus round and the game removes bodies later. However they do it, something deceptive is going on.

Quote: Mental

Maybe, all coffins are full at the start of the bonus round and the game removes bodies later. However they do it, something deceptive is going on.

I have seen games where the contents of the squares change but you were still required to show the actual contents and places after the last pick. In that case the last pick would be representative of your actual choices on that last pick.

I have only developed physical slot machines and not online games so it is possible there are different rules. What state are you playing it in and I will try to look up the regulations?

Interesting discussion, but I guess that I should have been more specific. I was actually talking about promotional games like on a kiosk. In particular my local casino has been running a promotion called The Queen of Hearts. Briefly, your casino play earns you entries into the game and every Wednesday people place their entries into a drum. Once a hour for 5 hours, I think, they draw an entry for a small prize and those people are then entered into a final drawing where that winner goes up to a wall where one full deck of very large cards has been placed on the wall. If the Queen of Hearts is picked they win the progressive jackpot which is now over $100,000. I’ve been saving all my entries and have accumulated a very large stack as I’ve been waiting for the amount of cards on the wall to be whittled down. I believe that there is only about 10 cards left. I’m ready to use my entries as I’m getting nervous that I may miss my chance completely, since the odds of picking the winning card is increasing. So, I thought that I would get some advice to increase my chances. I believe the cards on the wall are four rows of thirteen columns. So, are there any +EV strategies that will increase my odds of picking the Queen of Hearts? Thanks in advance.

Quote: technics

Interesting discussion, but I guess that I should have been more specific. I was actually talking about promotional games like on a kiosk. In particular my local casino has been running a promotion called The Queen of Hearts. Briefly, your casino play earns you entries into the game and every Wednesday people place their entries into a drum. Once a hour for 5 hours, I think, they draw an entry for a small prize and those people are then entered into a final drawing where that winner goes up to a wall where one full deck of very large cards has been placed on the wall. If the Queen of Hearts is picked they win the progressive jackpot which is now over $100,000. I’ve been saving all my entries and have accumulated a very large stack as I’ve been waiting for the amount of cards on the wall to be whittled down. I believe that there is only about 10 cards left. I’m ready to use my entries as I’m getting nervous that I may miss my chance completely, since the odds of picking the winning card is increasing. So, I thought that I would get some advice to increase my chances. I believe the cards on the wall are four rows of thirteen columns. So, are there any +EV strategies that will increase my odds of picking the Queen of Hearts? Thanks in advance.
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It's rigged.

Quote: technics

Interesting discussion, but I guess that I should have been more specific. I was actually talking about promotional games like on a kiosk. In particular my local casino has been running a promotion called The Queen of Hearts. Briefly, your casino play earns you entries into the game and every Wednesday people place their entries into a drum. Once a hour for 5 hours, I think, they draw an entry for a small prize and those people are then entered into a final drawing where that winner goes up to a wall where one full deck of very large cards has been placed on the wall. If the Queen of Hearts is picked they win the progressive jackpot which is now over $100,000. I’ve been saving all my entries and have accumulated a very large stack as I’ve been waiting for the amount of cards on the wall to be whittled down. I believe that there is only about 10 cards left. I’m ready to use my entries as I’m getting nervous that I may miss my chance completely, since the odds of picking the winning card is increasing. So, I thought that I would get some advice to increase my chances. I believe the cards on the wall are four rows of thirteen columns. So, are there any +EV strategies that will increase my odds of picking the Queen of Hearts? Thanks in advance.
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Okay. Kiosk games are computer programs. I assume my bonus amount is predetermined. I always pick the center symbol, but I don't think it matters. If the prize is not predetermined, then I doubt that it is rigged to favor left-handers or something based on known user preferences.

For physical cards, I assume that the deck is shuffled fairly and then set out on the board. I assume that the cards are new, but if they use the same deck over and over, then you might spot markings on the back of the cards. Someone once memorized markings on the envelopes that were reused for prize drawings and was then able to guess the right envelope every drawing.

Thanks for your thoughts

Quote: technics

Thanks for your thoughts
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The deck of cards on the wall is a real physical deck of cards?

The way I see it, there are two possibilities on Blood Suckers:

1. It’s ‘rigged’ to the extent that what you do doesn’t matter and any winnings were already determined when you went into the bonus game. Naturally, displaying ‘potential’ results is counterintuitive as that usually means player choice matters.

2. It’s ‘rigged,’ but actually in the player’s favor. Really, this shouldn’t be considered ‘rigged’ at all (if true) but the game might simply be designed such that player choice DOES matter, but also that all coffins will contain something on the first selection.

One thing that is certain (I’ve had to play this for a promo before) is that you will not pick an empty coffin the first time.

If the actual truth is #2, then I really don’t see it as being much different from those games with a Bonus Guarantee feature. One example is Diamond Hunt, Dancing in Rio might have if (can’t remember) and there was also a dragon-themed game with three must hit progressives I can’t remember the name of that I’m pretty sure did. There are probably others.

Bonus Guarantee is actually kind of cool in that you know you’ll do no worse than 10x bet. On any games I’ve seen, this applies to the entire payout, including base spin, so if you already won 10x+ on the base spin it doesn’t guarantee a minimum of another 10x+ via Bonus Guarantee.

If OP doesn't mind us hijacking his thread, I will continue to discuss picking a winner from slot bonus games. Above, technics said it was an interesting discussion, though he was interested in physical picks.

The rules for Blood Suckers don't say much about the picking process. Certainly nothing that reveals the algorithm they are using to ensure that the first coffin is not empty. I don't really care if they rig it. I just care that the RTP listed for the game is accurate. In the second image, I captured a bonus game after the reveal. I know that the sprites are scrambled and do not appear in the same order each bonus round. I would need to make more studies to prove there are only nine sprites. I suspect there are not enough distinct sprites to fill all of the coffins at the start of the bonus round.

Quote: Mission146

The way I see it, there are two possibilities on Blood Suckers:

1. It’s ‘rigged’ to the extent that what you do doesn’t matter and any winnings were already determined when you went into the bonus game. Naturally, displaying ‘potential’ results is counterintuitive as that usually means player choice matters.

2. It’s ‘rigged,’ but actually in the player’s favor. Really, this shouldn’t be considered ‘rigged’ at all (if true) but the game might simply be designed such that player choice DOES matter, but also that all coffins will contain something on the first selection.

One thing that is certain (I’ve had to play this for a promo before) is that you will not pick an empty coffin the first time.

If the actual truth is #2, then I really don’t see it as being much different from those games with a Bonus Guarantee feature. One example is Diamond Hunt, Dancing in Rio might have if (can’t remember) and there was also a dragon-themed game with three must hit progressives I can’t remember the name of that I’m pretty sure did. There are probably others.

Bonus Guarantee is actually kind of cool in that you know you’ll do no worse than 10x bet. On any games I’ve seen, this applies to the entire payout, including base spin, so if you already won 10x+ on the base spin it doesn’t guarantee a minimum of another 10x+ via Bonus Guarantee.
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I have seen bonus guarantees spelled out in help screens.

Something deceptive is going on with Blood Suckers even if they are doing it to help the player win something every bonus round. It is a bit like using deception to cover up an affair 'to protect your partner'. If you cannot be open about what you are doing, then maybe you should not be doing it.

Quote: Mental

Quote: Mission146

The way I see it, there are two possibilities on Blood Suckers:

1. It’s ‘rigged’ to the extent that what you do doesn’t matter and any winnings were already determined when you went into the bonus game. Naturally, displaying ‘potential’ results is counterintuitive as that usually means player choice matters.

2. It’s ‘rigged,’ but actually in the player’s favor. Really, this shouldn’t be considered ‘rigged’ at all (if true) but the game might simply be designed such that player choice DOES matter, but also that all coffins will contain something on the first selection.

One thing that is certain (I’ve had to play this for a promo before) is that you will not pick an empty coffin the first time.

If the actual truth is #2, then I really don’t see it as being much different from those games with a Bonus Guarantee feature. One example is Diamond Hunt, Dancing in Rio might have if (can’t remember) and there was also a dragon-themed game with three must hit progressives I can’t remember the name of that I’m pretty sure did. There are probably others.

Bonus Guarantee is actually kind of cool in that you know you’ll do no worse than 10x bet. On any games I’ve seen, this applies to the entire payout, including base spin, so if you already won 10x+ on the base spin it doesn’t guarantee a minimum of another 10x+ via Bonus Guarantee.
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I have seen bonus guarantees spelled out in help screens.

Something deceptive is going on with Blood Suckers even if they are doing it to help the player win something every bonus round. It is a bit like using deception to cover up an affair 'to protect your partner'. If you cannot be open about what you are doing, then maybe you should not be doing it.
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I see from the post above yours that there is a hard-capped maximum win amount. I don't think this should be the case if the Picks/contents are totally random.

Interesting that you should say that.
To continue my unintended story……if anyone cares to recall I was going to turn in my entries because the amount of cards left unpicked was about 10 and I was getting nervous that the chances of someone picking the Queen of Hearts were greatly increased. So I distributed my wad of entries throughout the dorm (about 3’ diameter) and went to look at the wall of cards. To my surprise, there were now 32 cards on the wall. A bit confused I started playing Blackjack while keeping my eyes on the screen where the names of people whose entry had been selected were posted. As the night went on, it seemed that a couple of people had been selected more than once.which seemed odd. After the last preliminary drawing I went over to the Promotion area and watched them select the last entry. The drum was so stuffed full that when the drum was rotated the entire contents of the drum just stayed in place (not mixing). The employee put her hand in the middle and drew an entry. This explained why one or two people had multiple winners due to the fact that the contents weren’t mixing and the employee probably stuck her hand in the same place each time and these people’s entries just happened to be in the right place. Later I asked the two employees about the cards reappearing on the wall and if there was point when cards were added to the wall and they seemed uncertain but said that throughout the lifetime of the contest it had been refilled 4 or 5 times, but assured me that the Queen of Hearts had never been chosen and was still in it’s original position. Doubtful I’ll go back even though someone has to win eventually, I guess, but I’m not certain of that.