Home Poker Bad Beat Pool

I think I'd like to have a bad beat pool for our home poker game. My idea so far is I collect money from everybody who wants to be in the pool, constructed so that the winner gets a pool equal to about a medium to large pot. Must get at least a situation where someone with a flush loses, wild card games excluded or separate pool if they want one.

And it occurs to me that it should affect a player's strategy. If it looks like you might lose a certain pot with a good hand, it surely pays to take more chances though if it is a good candidate for the bad beat pool, especially late in the game where the likely winning situation is known.

Is there any way to quantify this? Good poker players where the casino runs such a pool must also factor it in, no?

Getting a flush beat does not usually qualify for a bad beat bonus. In poker rooms that I have played in, you must get quads or better beat. That's probably too infrequent for a home game, but maybe getting a full house beat would do it.

Usually, when you have a full house or better, you are going to showdown anyway -so it does not affect strategy. If the bad beat bonus applies when a flush is beat, then that might affect strategy occasionally -because I have seen people lose with a flush:

Ex: five cards of the same suit come out as the common cards -making a flush on the board. One person has a high card of that suit, but the opponent, who doesn't have any suited cards sometimes will fold to a large bet. With a bad ebat bonus, they would certainly stay in until showdown.

Flush over flush is way to common in my opinion. Even for a home game. Might want to consider full house. Even then 2 shared full houses is pretty common.
I would probably go with full house but require player gets beat using both of their cards.

well, you know, we'll get to make our own rules; bear in mind it will be not well received to suggest holding the pool over to the next game, we won't be sure to have the same players.

On the other hand, to award a straight for getting beaten doesn't appeal to me, so players would get their money back or vote to play a quick game for the pool [usually an openly displayed 7 card game]

I'd start with a queens full of anything full house then move it up if it gets cracked early. Both hole cards must play if you are playing hold em. It's okay to let the pot build, but maybe you put a "must award by" sunset date on it? You have to keep track of who is in for the bad beat pool. What if a bad beat pool member with a qualifying hand gets beat by a non-pool player? Or, what if someone puts in the first night, but misses the next 3 game nights, then shows up again and qualifies. Do they still collect?

Sounds like too much trouble, honestly.

Just a suggestion, but we run a high hand, awarded every two hours. $1 from every pot over $10 goes to the kitty. Whoever currently has the high hand is responsible for collecting it. Only have to use one card out of your hand, full house or better.

I've thought about doing some kind of bad beat or high hand progressive that carries over to the following game if not hit. The idea is to encourage attendance, as you don't want to "miss out" on the hit, especially if you've been paying into it. But we generally don't have a problem getting enough together for games so decided to just stick with high hands.

thanks for replying, guys

Quote: Ayecarumba

I'd start with a queens full of anything full house then move it up if it gets cracked early. Both hole cards must play if you are playing hold em. It's okay to let the pot build, but maybe you put a "must award by" sunset date on it? You have to keep track of who is in for the bad beat pool. What if a bad beat pool member with a qualifying hand gets beat by a non-pool player? Or, what if someone puts in the first night, but misses the next 3 game nights, then shows up again and qualifies. Do they still collect?

I think I'm going to want to start with a new pool each night.

To be clear, it should be "the best instance" for the evening that gets the pool, not the "first instance" of someone getting a bad beat. So a full house getting beat by a better full house [or higher] would trump the the guy who lost a flush to something, and this better bad beat should happen most nights.

Quote: Steverinos

Sounds like too much trouble, honestly.

Just a suggestion, but we run a high hand, awarded every two hours. $1 from every pot over $10 goes to the kitty. Whoever currently has the high hand is responsible for collecting it. Only have to use one card out of your hand, full house or better.

I've thought about doing some kind of bad beat or high hand progressive that carries over to the following game if not hit. The idea is to encourage attendance, as you don't want to "miss out" on the hit, especially if you've been paying into it. But we generally don't have a problem getting enough together for games so decided to just stick with high hands.

since this is clearly requiring laying out some definitions, I may find you are right, high hand for the evening may just be persuasive due to simplicity

PS: not sure how casinos hold these

Imo bad beats in home games are stupid. Only point of a bad beat is to get a large sum of money for getting beat with what should be a winning hand plus it brings people into the room. If you are not holding it over to the next night what's the pot going to be, $50?

Depending on the type of players you have you might actually lose a player or two for not wanting to contribute to it.

Quote: odiousgambit

thanks for replying, guys

I think I'm going to want to start with a new pool each night.

To be clear, it should be "the best instance" for the evening that gets the pool, not the "first instance" of someone getting a bad beat. So a full house getting beat by a better full house [or higher] would trump the the guy who lost a flush to something, and this better bad beat should happen most nights.
since this is clearly requiring laying out some definitions, I may find you are right, high hand for the evening may just be persuasive due to simplicity

PS: not sure how casinos hold these

What about players that show up late? Do they get the full pot if they happen to qualify? Maybe there's a "vulture" opportunity?

Quote: GWAE

Imo bad beats in home games are stupid.

Thanks!

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Only point of a bad beat is to get a large sum of money for getting beat with what should be a winning hand plus it brings people into the room. If you are not holding it over to the next night what's the pot going to be, $50?

Our game is very, very low stakes, and it won't be even close at all to that. It's a piker thing, you wouldn't understand? LOL. Look, you've seen me bet at Craps, and though that is actually not worth mentioning, you probably got the idea that I wouldn't sit down at something where there's not some decent action. But it's not there at this game. Believe it or not, one adjusts to this, or I should say a guy *can* adjust to it. A lot of things are missing, though, in particular there's not enough pain to prevent people calling your hands too frequently ... I could go on.

Quote: Ayecarumba

What about players that show up late? Do they get the full pot if they happen to qualify? Maybe there's a "vulture" opportunity?

We'll just hold a vote with the players in the pool to determine if it is early enough to let another player in

this is a friendly game, guys

If the goal is to make it the best instance of the night, I would just do that. The biggest hand to lose a pot at showdown for the night wins the pool.

The strategy would change. For me, it would be for the worse, but others might like it.

Mainly, if you would be in contention for the pool, now you just pay off when you suspect you are beat. e.g. you have a 7 high flush and face a check raise on the river. So it takes some of the pressure off in these scenarios.

You'd also decrease the incentive to bluff in these scenarios. Granted, you aren't often trying to bluff someone off a flush, but maybe a weak flush is a part of the range you think they could fold.

Hands with certain boards would change a lot. Let's say there are trips on the board. Bluffing now becomes almost impossible if the FH would qualify.

However, there would be a fun dynamic. You'd better know what the existing bad beat is when making these decisions. You also have to judge if your hand is strong enough to win bad beat by the end of the night.

Lets say the board has four spades and you hold the king and face some heat. Or a queen even. Is it worth calling to chase the BBJP?

The person holding the ace can also factor this in when deciding how much to bet. You could put people in a really tough spot, where they aren't sure if it's worth calling. Or you could make a huge overbet as a bluff that says "i know you want to call because of the BBJP, but it's going to cost you."

It would also be fun watching people take bad beats on their bad beats.

Quote: odiousgambit

It's a piker thing, you wouldn't understand?

I play poker A LOT, I may even play more poker on here than 95% of the people. I understand.

Quote: odiousgambit

But it's not there at this game. Believe it or not, one adjusts to this, or I should say a guy *can* adjust to it. A lot of things are missing, though, in particular there's not enough pain to prevent people calling your hands too frequently ... I could go on.

yes this is the problem with low stakes. There is no pain to make the call. People are going to play K 10 in a .10/.25 game but in a 2/5 game they probably are not. People are going to call you down to the end with 4th flush in a .10/.25 game for $5 but in a 2/5 game for $350 they are not. I don't think there is any way to manufacture the pain in a low stakes game. You just have to take it for what it is worth and if you want the satisfaction at the end of the night of winning then you just have to adjust your style. Play tight aggressive and you will take their money.

Quote: GWAE

Play tight aggressive and you will take their money.

tight is the right way to play against loose, I agree. In our game the ante is too low vis a vis the betting, so this is doubly true there.

However, you can't play so tight you get a reputation for only playing with dynamite hands, folding too soon all the time, or you won't make any money that way either. But if you see that has happened start bluffing and it should be self correcting with perhaps a profitable interlude.

Maybe the right strategy for your bad beat bonus would be to reward the highest hand that is beat during the first hour or two hours of the tournament. Must go to showdown. Each table would keep track of their highest hand beat and the victim (you may need to reward before tables merge.)

Quote: gordonm888

Maybe the right strategy for your bad beat bonus would be to reward the highest hand that is beat during the first hour or two hours of the tournament.

somehow I have created a vision of some underground operation taking in the big bucks and on the law's radar or something. This is just a monthly get together of a small-stakes friendly game with no rake.

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Must go to showdown.

definitely, see below

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Each table would keep track of their highest hand beat and the victim (you may need to reward before tables merge.)

Just one table is all we have ever had and sometimes a no-show will push the limits on how few you really want to play with [5 for us pretty much]. BTW it's dealer's choice and no one has ever called texas holdem on their turn.

I think the idea of a bad beat pool will be received well, we'll see and I'll report back.

From the helpful conversation here I can see I'll need to state:

*no wild card games
*I'll keep a note on a notepad for a qualifier
*pool gets won or money back by the end of the game
*must go to showdown
*to qualify must be at least a beaten flush which is not an instant winner, but...
*this will be trumped by the next higher beaten hand, with the expectation that a knocked off full house will trump it, and a higher beaten full house etc. still able to trump
*if everyone wants one for the [less frequent] wild card games there can be another pool

I wouldn't offer the bad beat jackpot for wild card games, as you will have a situation where a player can table his wild hand as a loser (e.g. four of a kind including a wild tabled as a full house) just to claim the jackpot.

Since it's dealer's choice, what about lowball bad beats?

Otherwise, sounds fun. Let us know how it goes.

The game got postponed a week, so I just now can say how it went over, and I'd say pretty well with good chances that we will do it again each month.

Some players had never heard of it, others couldn't quite let it sink in that it was not an instant winner contest until they could see it was clearly not, then the veil lifted.

Certainly the beneficiary will advocate it again! An ace high flush was beaten by another ace high flush, the next cards being a King versus a 10.

did you have rules with both hole cards or anything? How much was the winning pot

Quote: GWAE

did you have rules with both hole cards or anything?

not sure what you mean?

Quote:

How much was the winning pot

about a medium to large typical pot for a hand. Low stakes mind you, so I am avoiding answering that directly; I'd have to lie if you pressed me on it LOL

Quote: odiousgambit

not sure what you mean?

Did the qualifying hand have to use both of their hole cards to form the high hand, or would a hand using only one hole card, or playing the board have counted as well?

Quote: odiousgambit

about a medium to large typical pot for a hand. Low stakes mind you, so I am avoiding answering that directly; I'd have to lie if you pressed me on it LOL

De-Classified Translation: $9 hehe...

Quote: Ayecarumba

Did the qualifying hand have to use both of their hole cards to form the high hand, or would a hand using only one hole card, or playing the board have counted as well?

Dealer's choice and sometimes there were 4 community cards only, but if anyone had played holdem and the board had the best hand, since there would be no loser, no bad beat. We did play some Omaha too, and you have to use 2 of your cards by rule already.*

Come to think of it, there was one guy who called a game "8 card poker" that used a house hand and you had to beat the house hand or that meant no winner and redeal, with the pot building. It's such a friendly game you could fold and get back in for the redeal LOL. The house and the players had 4 cards and the community cards were 4 cards turned over one at a time. So the house could pull a bad beat on one of the players I guess. He'd lose what he was betting and have a chance to get it back. I'm inclined to declare that a non-qualifier, what would you do? appreciate the feedback.

*just looked that up to be sure it's always played that way.

I’d say you have to use at least one card from your hand to qualify. Otherwise, it could easily be possible for the board to qualify, resulting in a split jackpot.

Did the presence of the jackpot encourage players to stay in with hands they would usually fold?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Did the presence of the jackpot encourage players to stay in with hands they would usually fold?

I think that kind of thinking will be inevitable, however, it was so new to most of them I'm fairly sure it wasn't in play this last game. Except me, of course, who's had lots of time to think about it. A good situation did not arise, though, for me.