Do I have a gambling problem?

I know the obvious answer is that my problem is I don't win enough. LOL.


As you all know, I spend a week in Vegas, 9/19-9/25, and lost way more than I had hoped to even risk.

When I came home from work on 9/30, my wife's car was in the driveway, but she wasn't home. I automatically knew this meant she was at a casino, and she wasn't driving. I don't blame her. I was in Vegas for a week. She wasn't with me. She's got a right to have some fun too.

So after an hour and she hasn't called me, I sent her a text message telling her I knew where she was. I simply wrote: "While you're there, do something I forgot to do last week. Bring home a free poker magazine. And cash."

She handles the finances. When I came home after Vegas, I had given her most of what I had left. So she knew I was running low. She came home after I went to bed, and left a magazine with $100 on the table for me. I saw it in the morning when I was leaving for work.

She left a note "Is that enough?" I wrote "Yes", took the cash, and went to work.

$100 is plenty. She knows that I typically get $100 from her every 7 to 10 days.

But here's the thing. She was heading out of town to visit her brother for the weekend. I wasn't going with her. Did she think that after the horrible week I had in Vegas that I might be planning on going to a local casino so soon? Is that why I might need more?

As she's leaving Saturday, she again asks if it was enough, then tells me that she probably won't be going to a casino while she's there. Her brother lives about 5 miles from Turning Stone in NY.

After she leaves, I think about it, and it REALLY starts to make me think she was expecting me to go to a casino. So the bug is planted. I want to go.

Except I don't have any money. I have $100, but need at least $250 to sit down to poker.

After a couple hours of brooding about it, I check the hours of the bank. It's 2:10 and they close at 3:00. They have a coin counting machine that doesn't charge a commission. I grab my pickle jar full of coins and say to myself, if it's more than $150, I'm heading to the casino in the morning.

My pickle jar had $293.16 in it!

I went to Sands PA first thing in the morning. I came home 7 hours later up $152.

When the wife found out, she claimed she never intened to plant a seed. And she was pissed. But it's hard to be mad when I came home a winner.


Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your point of view), I have bookings every weekend for the rest of the month, so a repeat is not gonna happen anytime soon.


But do I have a problem?

Do you gamble at the expense of your family?
Do you gamble and cannot pay your bills?
Do you go out of your way to gamble when you have free time? (as opposed to doing other things you enjoy)
Do you lie about going to gamble?

If the answer to these all these questions is yes then I would say you might have a problem and should consider contacting your local gamblers anonymous, for further help.

If not, I would say you do not have a gambling problem, but like me may have some problems with impulse control and self control.

The problem you actually have is a failure to communicate. Obviously, you both had different ideas of what the $100 was for. She thought it was your usual walking-around money. You thought it was carte blanche to go play poker.

I somehow doubt that she anticipated your emptying out the coin jar to boost your poker playing bankroll. I also doubt that the agreed purpose of that coin jar was for you to play poker with that money.

By the way, the fact that you won has very little to do with anything. Your wife was pissed because she felt you should have asked her if it was OK for you to gamble with the $100 (and, with the coin jar money). (By the way, did you put that $293 back in the coin jar?)

I'm perhaps reading a bit too much into this, and inferring a subtext where there perhaps is none, but I would guess that the reason you didn't clarify the money question before your wife left is that you didn't want to be told "no".

So my answer would be is that you possibly have an incipient problem, gambling or relationship-related, and I would suggest taking a good look at your own real motivations. It's supposed to be a huge red flag when you start to conceal your gambling from your loved ones (which is what you did, by not clarifying whether you could or could not use that money, then waiting until such clarification was impossible--and going to gamble anyway).

Quote: Croupier

Do you gamble at the expense of your family?
Do you gamble and cannot pay your bills?
Do you go out of your way to gamble when you have free time? (as opposed to doing other things you enjoy)
Do you lie about going to gamble?

1 & 2: The wife handles the finances. I normally don't have an ATM card, but before my Vegas trip, she gave me one for an account that normally has nothing in it. Every couple days she reloaded that account for me. If there wasn't any money left to use for the reload, she would have told me.

3: That's a tough one, because there's not much I enjoy more than gambling - although I beleive I do it in moderation. Prior to the Vegas trip, it had been over a month since I saw a casino.

4: While I didn't tell her in advance, I disclosed everything when she came home, including the one hand where I lost over $250. But she's a poker player too. She agreed that it would have been hard to fold in that situation.

Quote: mkl654321

The problem you actually have is a failure to communicate. Obviously, you both had different ideas of what the $100 was for. She thought it was your usual walking-around money. You thought it was carte blanche to go play poker.

Actually, I thought she was tempting me to go.

Quote:

I somehow doubt that she anticipated your emptying out the coin jar to boost your poker playing bankroll. I also doubt that the agreed purpose of that coin jar was for you to play poker with that money.

There was no set purpose to it. It was simply my loose change, collected for a few years.

Quote:

By the way, did you put that $293 back in the coin jar?

I gave her $350 to put in the bank.

Quote:

So my answer would be is that you possibly have an incipient problem, gambling or relationship-related, and I would suggest taking a good look at your own real motivations.

Thanks for the advice.

DJ, this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I would say it is indeed a red flag, and the seed of a problem may have been planted. If the first thing you thought of when you saw the $100 in the magazine was to go a casino, ahead of all else, that is the beginning of a single-minded focus on gambling. The fact that you enabled yourself even more by cashing in the coins just exacerbates the situation.

I would take a step back and think about things. Talk to people about it; your wife, and others. It may just be because you just got back from Vegas and you had the "gambling itch." But, when it comes to gambling, less is always better than more. Limiting yourself is the hard part.

For what it's worth, and to prove I'm not calling the kettle black, I've come to terms that I have a gambling problem. Thankfully, it's not destructive, but neither is it positive. I'm taking steps to correct it, but it still is going to take some time and effort to resolve.

Disordered gambling can be a serious problem when it occurs. Try the SOGS test: http://www.stopgamblingnow.com/sogs_print.htm

Quote: DJTeddyBear

But do I have a problem?

What would you have done if you had lost the pickle jar money? Would the $100 have followed? If you can't consistently stick to your loss limits, then I think you have a problem. It may not be "addiction" in the classic sense, but you can see it from there. Open communication (both ways) about your budget and spending with your spouse will go a long way toward keeping things under control.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

But do I have a problem?

Just 'having to ask' is not a good sign. From what I can gather, you are at risk, but not necessarily gone to full blown addiction.

If it was drugs or alcohol, I'd say you shouldnt try to work on this by yourself. I don't know what to tell a gambler on that.

Actually, asking is a great thing. It is the individual who is ashamed or in denial and doesn't ask that is in a real bad way. Addiction to gambling is just like drugs or alcohol, and your advice to not go it alone is right on.

I don't think its a problem until it starts to interfere with important things in your life. Right now it sounds like any other hobby, you enjoy it and look forward to it. We've been so programmed to think because its gambling related, it must be awful. I remember a few years ago one of the radio shrinks said if you drink 4 beers every weekend while watching a sports game, you're an alcoholic. What utter BS. Looking forward to playing poker and even Jonesing for it once in awhile doesn't mean you have a 'gambling problem'. I knew a guy who spent all his time and money on antique radios, and nobody thought anything about it. He was a radioholic, ohhhh nooo...

This is getting out of my area, but I see red flags too. Saying you "believe in moderation," doesn't give me much comfort. Any addict who doesn't think he is one will say he only enjoys whatever it is in moderation, until he admits his problem. Of course, recreational gamblers say they play in moderation too, so saying that doesn't tell us much.

Resorting to the pickle jar for gambling money doesn't look good. Both just the thought of resorting to that for gambling money, and also since your wife is in charge of the money, she should also control the pickle jar money. So I think you violated her trust on that.

By the way, which bank was this? I have a 10-gallon water bottle about 25% full of change. I'm too lazy to roll it, and too cheap to pay fees for a machine.

Quote: Wizard

By the way, which bank was this? I have a 10-gallon water bottle about 25% full of change. I'm too lazy to roll it, and too cheap to pay fees for a machine.

The Coinstar machine at the supermarket will count up to $1000 at a time for no fee if you direct the proceeds to an Amazon.com gift code, Starbucks card, iTunes card, etc. They run promotions from time to time where you get a bonus for using ther service ($10 more for changing at least $40 at Amazon or iTunes were recent promos).

Edit: Let your kids do the counting and rolling. You can use the money for allowances, and/or pay them a "processing" fee that they can spend/save.

Quote: Wizard

Of course, recreational gamblers say they play in moderation too, so saying that doesn't tell us much.

The problem is, we've been conditioned to believe there's no middle ground. You're either not an addict or you're a moment away from one of those TV commercials where the guy is weeping into the phone that he lost the house in a poker game. Like most things in life, we aren't at either extreme, but somewhere in the middle. The idiot on the radio trying to tell the guy he was an alcoholic because he drank a few beers on weekends is a good example.

Well, first of all I consider myself kind of addicted to games in general, since board games to card games, including casino games. My last trip was concerning...
Luckly I live in Brazil and we do not have casinos here, so that I cross the border to Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, Peru or Uruguay about three times a year to gamble. That's why I never had to use the coin jar money for gambling, LOL! Sometimes I win, sometimes I loose. By now I am a little bit up, but before my last trip I was way ahead more up! I do not expect you to take advice from a complete stranger like me, but for me it seems like a gambling problem.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

As you all know, I spend a week in Vegas, 9/19-9/25, and lost way more than I had hoped to even risk.

[..]

But here's the thing. She was heading out of town to visit her brother for the weekend. I wasn't going with her. Did she think that after the horrible week I had in Vegas that I might be planning on going to a local casino so soon? Is that why I might need more?

[..]

But do I have a problem?

I'll join the chorus and say you may be at the beginning of a problem.

The two paragraphs I quoted are what jump at me the most. The first because a cornerstone of responsible gambling is setting a loss limit and sticking with it no matter what. Gambling more than your limit may indicate a somewat warped set of priorities.

The second strikes me as a rationalization. I mean, regardless of what your wife thought you want the money for, you knew why you asked her for that much money, and rfom what I can tell it wasn't for poker. It seems to me you tried to come up with a reason, then, to use that money for gambling. I say this becasue I've done similar stuff before, though not regarding gambling.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the responses and advice. I gotta rattle all this around a bit.


But a couple quick responses:

My wife left me $100 because she knew I was running short and would need more for the weekend. I REALLY didn't plan on going to a casino with it. It was only afterwards, when thinking why she would ask if it was enough, that I thought she was expecting me to go to a casino while I was alone for the weekend.

I normally don't have an ATM card because I'm bad with paperwork, and used to bounce checks as a result. This was before I got married. Now the wife handles the finances, and I'm just as happy having her give me cash when I need it.

Even though I gave her $350, it wasn't necessarily because I took the pickle jar money. That was mine to do with what I wanted. It's just that I really didn't need that much cash, so I gave it to her to put in the bank.

Normally when I go to a casino, I usually start with a specific amount, and generally tighten up when I lose even 10%. The only times I ever blew thru the budget was this past Vegas trip, and an A.C. trip about a year and a half ago. Both of these trips are the only times I've ever been in a casino with a live ATM card. Having the ability to reload made it easier to lose control.

----

The bank with the free coin counter is TD Bank.

FYI: While using it, I filled up a coin bag and had to wait to get the bag changed. When the teller opened the machine, I noticed a bunch of coins in the track leading to the reject tray. She gave me ALL the coins in the track. That track is too level to be effective. When I was done, she opened it again, and again she gave me the coins that didn't make it all the way to the reject tray. I probably got a buck or two that wasn't mine...

You have a problem. Why all the pussy-footing around?

Not meant as a consolation, but name someone on this forum who DOESN'T have some kind of a gambling problem.

Quote: JerryLogan

Not meant as a consolation, but name someone on this forum who DOESN'T have some kind of a gambling problem.

The Wizard.

Quote: JerryLogan

Not meant as a consolation, but name someone on this forum who DOESN'T have some kind of a gambling problem.

Similar to alcoholism, it's all in the eye of the beholder. The guy who has four beers at a football game could be considered an alcoholic if he drinks to excess and drives home drunk. There is a not-very-well-defined spectrum for these types of problems. And no offense, Wizard, but someone reading your site and about all the time you spend in casinos could definitely come to the conclusion that you have a gambling problem, even though we know most of your play is +E.V. As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Jerry; everyone who gambles has a "problem" according to some people.

Quote: JerryLogan

You have a problem. Why all the pussy-footing around?

Not meant as a consolation, but name someone on this forum who DOESN'T have some kind of a gambling problem.

The only people who make blanket statements like this are the people with the problems. All alcoholics think everybody in the bar is an alcoholic, just like them.

Quote: teddys

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Jerry; everyone who gambles has a "problem" according to some people.

According to some people, Elvis is alive and the world is flat. Meaningless speculation. You don't have enough facts to make a diagnosis, doctor.

I'd have to agree w the Wiz.
I set a limit with an emergency bump if needed but when it is done, it's done. I also realized that gambling is a marathon not a sprint. So I can always

Wiz my 10 gal bottle was about 1/2. I pulled close to a grand. After I rolled the quarters I cried defeat and hit cstar and lost my 9.99999999999%
However that had always been deemed as surprise gambling money.

Quote: EvenBob

The only people who make blanket statements like this are the people with the problems. All alcoholics think everybody in the bar is an alcoholic, just like them.

I've seen plenty of people on various forums pop straight out of the woodwork just to make self-preserving statements like that. It kind of calms them down. Some say they only play "for recreation" or "to take their minds off their work", implying that work is more important to them (or at least that's what they want others to perceive). The AP's usually claim they do not "gamble" just because they have talked themselves into how playing +EV casino games is tough to be a loser so, by default, only -EV players have the problem. The most ridiculous statement comes from the "pros" who say when they go into a casino to play casino games they are not gambling, serving up the impression that they win and "gamblers" do not win.

I saw a discussion on "denial" recently....

Quote: JerryLogan

I've seen plenty of people on various forums pop straight out of the woodwork just to make self-preserving statements like that. It kind of calms them down. Some say they only play "for recreation" or "to take their minds off their work", implying that work is more important to them (or at least that's what they want others to perceive). The AP's usually claim they do not "gamble" just because they have talked themselves into how playing +EV casino games is tough to be a loser so, by default, only -EV players have the problem. The most ridiculous statement comes from the "pros" who say when they go into a casino to play casino games they are not gambling, serving up the impression that they win and "gamblers" do not win.

I saw a discussion on "denial" recently....

Yes, Jerry, you're a sicko so everybody else is a sicko too. We know the drill. Take your meds and settle down..

Jerry have you ever considered that it can be fun?

It sounds a bit like you are inferring your feelings into others words.

Quote: Wizard

By the way, which bank was this? I have a 10-gallon water bottle about 25% full of change. I'm too lazy to roll it, and too cheap to pay fees for a machine.

Barley's on E. Sunset has a sign on their cage that indicates they sort coins for a smaller fee than either the banks or Coinstar. I haven't tried it so I don't know for certain. This may be true of the other Wildfire properties in Las Vegas if you have one on your side of town. Also, I worked at a bank and we wouldn't accept rolled coins without charging a fee. If someone brought in rolls of coins, we had to unwrap them and run them through the sorter to verify the count anyway. Same effort (actually more) by the bank personnel so we charged the same. Just saying you might want to check first if you decide to make the effort to roll the coins. Likely different banks have different policies.

Quote: Wavy70

Jerry have you ever considered that it can be fun?

It sounds a bit like you are inferring your feelings into others words.

Fun? You mean like how it is for this thread's starter?

When people criticize opinions surrounding gambling problems while they ignore even whispering about the part denial plays in all this, the guessing ends.

Quote: JerryLogan

Fun? You mean like how it is for this thread's starter?

When people criticize opinions surrounding gambling problems while they ignore even whispering about the part denial plays in all this, the guessing ends.

Yes Jerry the OP may have an issue. However these are things that in the end only he can answer. I'm glad that after reading a few paragraph you were able to make an in depth psychological diagnosis.
But you are inferring that anyone who gambles has a problem. Would that be anyone who does not eat for basic sustenance has an eating disorder?

Perhaps you need to deal with your own demons about gambling.

Quote: Wavy70

Perhaps you need to deal with your own demons about gambling.

Everybody who has some kind of disorder thinks everybody else has it too, or is about to. Its very common.

Quote: Wavy70

Yes Jerry the OP may have an issue. However these are things that in the end only he can answer. I'm glad that after reading a few paragraph you were able to make an in depth psychological diagnosis.
But you are inferring that anyone who gambles has a problem. Would that be anyone who does not eat for basic sustenance has an eating disorder?

Perhaps you need to deal with your own demons about gambling.

I am not the one (or more accurately, ones) here that are uneasy when the word "denial" makes an unwanted appearance. I know gambling is a problem for me. You should have gleaned that from my statement "name someone here who does not have a problem".

Quote: JerryLogan

I am not the one (or more accurately, ones) here that are uneasy when the word "denial" makes an unwanted appearance. I know gambling is a problem for me. You should have gleaned that from my statement "name someone here who does not have a problem".

I had a friend who was co-dependent, so he thought everybody was co-dependent. I have a relative who has a drinking problem, so if you have a drink around him, you have a problem too. Jerry is on a gambling forum and has an addiction, so all of us are addicted also. Makes sense to him...

Quote: EvenBob

I had a friend who was co-dependent, so he thought everybody was co-dependent. I have a relative who has a drinking problem, so if you have a drink around him, you have a problem too. Jerry is on a gambling forum and has an addiction, so all of us are addicted also. Makes sense to him...

You seem to be bothered by this discussion, and the deeper you get in the more desperately creative your posts get.

Lots of people have drinking problems, but I've never met or heard of one who thinks anyone around them that has a drink has the same problem. I guess they're smarter than that. Smoking? Exactly the same.

People join gambling forums because they can't get enough of it when they're away from casinos. Who joins drinking or smoking clubs?

Smarten up.

I want to thank everyone for their opinions.

I didn't come to any conclusions, but I didn't really expect to.

It's very interesing food for thought.

Thanks.

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About the water bottle thing: BE CAREFUL!

About 30 years ago, my uncle had a 5 gallon GLASS water bottle, about 3" full of pennies when he tried to lift it. The bottle separated along the seam. He had pennies, and glass splinters, all over that room.

Mine was a 1 gallon plastic jar, easily lifted by one hand.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

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About the water bottle thing: BE CAREFUL!

Heard a horror story recently of someone picking up a large bottle by the neck [7 gallon carboy] full of homebrew of some sort, bumping it, and having a glass shard under all that weight cut his wrist nearly off his arm. He says he doesnt homebrew anymore.

Quote: odiousgambit

Heard a horror story recently of someone picking up a large bottle by the neck [7 gallon carboy] full of homebrew of some sort, bumping it, and having a glass shard under all that weight cut his wrist nearly off his arm. He says he doesnt homebrew anymore.

I homebrew here and there, and I have a big 6-gallon carboy that I basically resort to pushing around once it's full. Picking it up sounds like a lot of work, and apparently a bad idea...