Who should pay the tip?

Quote: rxwine

I have to disagree. Quality or service may go down, but prices don't necessarily go up. Walmart and McDonalds being two examples.

I'm sure there are also counter examples but just pointing out it does not necessarily follow.

I mean I'd actually be surprised if either of those companies became even more of a bargain to the customer if they converted to tipping.

Maybe you wouldn't wait in a line as long and food and service would be better. Maybe more smiles.

Cheaper because of tipping? I doubt it.

edited for last line

I agree with your examples, except I'm not sure what McDonald's and WalMart have to do with the tipping discussion at hand.

The reason that I say that is because McDonald's and WalMart, and especially WalMart, are two locations that tend to be operating on a fatter profit margin relative to total sales than an Applebee's sort of thing.

Furthermore, when you talk about wage increases, you're talking about something along the lines of minimum wage going up, so in those terms, you're not looking at as huge of a percentage difference per hour as you would be if you immediately more than doubled the wages for a server at a restaurant.

Additionally, it is important to keep in mind that the Federal Government (as do most State Governments) mandates that the earnings of a tipped employee must be increased to the regular minimum wage in the event that the direct wages + tips fall short of that. I also don't think that you could start people on the notion of regularly tipping cashiers or drive-thru attendants, since those people do not normally receive tips as it stands now. Therefore, making them, 'Tipped employees,' would basically be in name only and actual direct wages would not go down much at all.

I do agree that there are things that a company can do aside from raising prices if costs go up due to a wage increase. One of those things for a proper restaurant is to have fewer server hours, but that's why I already assumed we were at bare minimum staffing hours when I did my analysis of it. I mean, could you realistically go one server at all times, or one with two servers sometimes, at a restaurant in which you probably have thirty or more tables?

You could cut staffing in the kitchen to try to make up for it. You could cut servers. You could try to cut food costs.

The problem with cutting other costs rather than raising prices is that such has an impact on the customer experience. If I go from having a waitress come and check on the table every eight minutes to every twenty minutes, then drinks, appetizer, entree takes an hour, minimum, just to get to me and I am not pleased. If the food goes to crap, not pleased. If you have one fewer cook and the entree takes thirty minutes after I am done with the appetizer to get out to me as opposed to hitting my table almost immediately after I am done with the appetizer...again...not happy.

You really can't screw with the dining experience too much.

Besides, like I said before, the whole thing doesn't really hurt the tippers. If you went into a restaurant with an expectation of tipping and your total was $40, then you would tip $7.20 (18%) and your total out of pocket would be $47.20. If they raised prices by 20% in response to the wage increase, the dinner would just cost you $48, which is an out of pocket increase of $0.80 to you.

That's the thing, when you go from tipping to not tipping, the total price difference is almost unnoticeable for those who previously tipped. Like I said, I tip 30-40%, so I SAVE money in this scenario. ZK tips 0%, so he gets to either pay more or not eat there at all.

Quote: ZenKinG

If they try and raise prices or make blackjack unplayable, then everyone needs to stop going to these places until they revert back to what is normal because theres no need for them to do it other than greed. The power still lies with the people. Watch how fast they react when no one starts playing or visiting their store.

Also keep your posts about this in one single thread. Im not gonna go back and forth and read your lectures.

Feel free not to read or respond to them at all, I don't have a gun to your head. It's up to you what you choose to read or respond to.

Here is what I am saying: THEY. WILL. NOT. STOP. GOING.

Did the low-limit players stop playing Blackjack when The Strip rolled out 6:5 on the low-limit tables? Did the Roulette players stop playing when they slapped another zero on that bad boy? Did the low-limit Roulette players at Venetian/Palazzo stop playing when they slapped a THIRD zero on that bad boy? Do people all stop making side bets when the pays are changed for the worse? Did people stop betting the Field at those casinos that started doing Double-Double rather than Double-Triple?

Listen, when you can get out there and single-handed convince everyone to stop going, I will concede the argument. Until then, I have literal centuries of evidence to suggest that prices go up and people continue to buy the stuff.

Quote: Mission146

Do you truly not comprehend the fact that if more wages were paid on direct prices would go up? Do you not understand that the money is going to come from the customer one way or another? What did you major in when you were in college? I'm guessing it wasn't Economics.

Therefore, if you don't want to tip, that's fine, but nobody thinks you are either smart or special because of it. Rather than encouraging people NOT TO TIP you should be thanking people FOR TIPPING because us tipping keeps the prices down.

You want Blackjack rules to get worse, Mr. Counter, here's a good way to do it: Make the casino compensate the dealers more on direct. The Blackjack rules will go to Hell immediately and the game will no longer be countable. Keep encouraging people not to tip, though, if you have that little concern for your own livelihood.

The tone in many of your posts is petulant, puerile, acrimonious and your suggestions are often absurd. I say nothing about you as a person, because that would be an insult. I speak only to your posts.

I disagree with the fact that upping minimum wages make games go stinky and agree with ZK (he was right). Collusion and competition are much more likely to affect game conditions. Collusion on the strip to introduce 6-5 BJ, reducing odds on Craps, making the field double/double, 00 roulette, 1-3-6 3-card pay tables all have been rule reductions over the last years which is more about profiteering than wages.

Take a look at Casino Windsor vs the Detroit Casinos or Fallsview vs the Senecas. The rules are no different in either place for games but the wages in Ontario are much higher as employees are unionized. Labor conditions would not worsen gaming conditions. The fact that there is tacit collusion between the Vegas casinos on the strip is the primary factor in the crappy gaming conditions on the strip. What you would actually see is minimums going up, not rules worsening, as that is the primary difference between the casinos on both sides.

Casinos on the US side can offer $10 PG, $5 BJ, and $5 Craps. You don't see that on the Canadian side as wages are higher.

I really don't have a problem with his point of view. Alot of people feel that the casinos should be 100% responsible for the dealer's compensation. If enough people decide this is the case, then you will have a situation where dealers will not apply for work and casinos won't have a choice but to pay more, and in turn, up table limits further.

Quote: boymimbo

I disagree with the fact that upping minimum wages make games go stinky and agree with ZK (he was right). Collusion and competition are much more likely to affect game conditions. Collusion on the strip to introduce 6-5 BJ, reducing odds on Craps, making the field double/double, 00 roulette, 1-3-6 3-card pay tables all have been rule reductions over the last years which is more about profiteering than wages.

Take a look at Casino Windsor vs the Detroit Casinos or Fallsview vs the Senecas. The rules are no different in either place for games but the wages in Ontario are much higher as employees are unionized. Labor conditions would not worsen gaming conditions. The fact that there is tacit collusion between the Vegas casinos on the strip is the primary factor in the crappy gaming conditions on the strip. What you would actually see is minimums going up, not rules worsening, as that is the primary difference between the casinos on both sides.

Casinos on the US side can offer $10 PG, $5 BJ, and $5 Craps. You don't see that on the Canadian side as wages are higher.

I really don't have a problem with his point of view. Alot of people feel that the casinos should be 100% responsible for the dealer's compensation. If enough people decide this is the case, then you will have a situation where dealers will not apply for work and casinos won't have a choice but to pay more, and in turn, up table limits further.

They're unionized in Detroit too. Most are represented by the UAW of all things.

BoyMimbo,

Fine, maybe it's table limits. That still constitutes prices for some people, in my view. Up table limits from $5 to $10, now the EV PRICE to play the game just doubled for whatever minimum bettors are not PRICED out altogether.

The entire point is you're not going to see wage costs on direct go up and businesses do nothing in response.

Also, that doesn't apply to restaurants, ZK seems to be against tipping as a rule, regardless of industry.

Blackjack minimums double, okay, as a counter you have to be willing to double your current max bet to have the same overall spread range in units. That's a negative. One's max bet is usually bankroll based, anyway, so you don't want to have to double that unless your bankroll can tolerate it.

Just reading a UAW contract now. Dealers are paid between $10.59 and $11.61/hour. The Cashier at the cage is making $19.39/hour. Beverage Server making $14.28/hour.

Hate to admit it after all i said about not tipping, but i just left a restaurant and i just couldnt be a stiff. I felt bad for the waiter, since i know thats what he relies on and ended up leaving about 18%. My point still remains though. These owners of these restaurants and casinos need to pay their workers, it should not be our responsibility and there would be no need to raise prices just cause youre paying ur workers 10 an hour. Its not like were even getting a great deal to begin with with the current tip system in place. Every restuarant overprices their steak etc.

All in all, me being a good person, i had to leave something. I guess i couldnt walk the walk, or whatever that phrase is, but something still needs to be done with this tipping system in this country. Ill still never tip a casino dealer though and it's nothing personal to them, but tipping at casino games is just ridiculous.

Quote: ZenKinG

Hate to admit it after all i said about not tipping, but i just left a restaurant and i just couldnt be a stiff. I felt bad for the waiter, since i know thats what he relies on and ended up leaving about 18%. My point still remains though. These owners of these restaurants and casinos need to pay their workers, it should not be our responsibility and there would be no need to raise prices just cause youre paying ur workers 10 an hour. Its not like were even getting a great deal to begin with with the current tip system in place. Every restuarant overprices their steak etc.

All in all, me being a good person, i had to leave something. I guess i couldnt walk the walk, or whatever that phrase is, but something still needs to be done with this tipping system in this country. Ill still never tip a casino dealer though and it's nothing personal to them, but tipping at casino games is just ridiculous.

That's good to hear, again, I don't care if you tip or not. I'm glad to hear you did, though.

Given that you're a card counter, I can understand why you wouldn't want to tip the dealers, that cuts into your EV. Could be good cover, I don't know, you hear arguments for and against.

In my lengthy post, keeping the same server hours and going from just $4.95/hour to $8.25 an hour increased server expenses by $40,000 annually based on ONLY 34 TOTAL server hours per week. If you bump it up to $10/hour, then server wage expenses go up to almost $60,000/year based on 34 hours per week.

For most restaurants, that's going to be a fair percentage of their profits. I don't see how quality/service doesn't seriously go down or prices don't seriously go up to compensate.

I'm also not a complete stalwart when it comes to tipping. The only time I would really get on someone (in person) is if they are stiffing someone who doesn't make at least minimum wage before tips. Starbucks people, I really don't understand why Starbucks baristas should be tipped, I tip a buck anyway but always feel like a moke. An independent cafe, maybe, because there you're as likely as not tipping the owner personally. Starbucks locations in Barnes and Nobles and many other stores don't even take tips.

I used to bartend and I don't understand why some bartenders expect a buck per drink from anyone other than people just drinking one or two, especially if it is just opening a beer. Anything short of a complicated mixed drink, and I really don't think anymore than a buck every two or three drinks is warranted. Some bartenders make minimum wage straight up, anyway, or more. I made $6.00 and kept all my tips when MW was $5.15. Cocktail waitresses are a little different, I look at that as paying for promptness.

I think it is completely optional whether or not to tip a housekeeper. I do tip them. They generally make at least minimum wage, usually a little more, or some hotels pay them by the room with $x for a checkout and $x for a stayover. We did it that way for about the first month at the first hotel I managed, but I changed it because the housekeepers were claiming stayover rooms that were actually DND's. Because of that, they were also making, like, $13 an hour!

Restaurant servers are the only ones for whom I take a serious stand, and I'm in favor of tipping bartenders because some of them get base wages similar to restaurant people. Other than that, I don't know that there are any other occupations that would be absolutely screwed without tips, cab drivers, arguably.

Quote: Mission146

Restaurant servers are the only ones for whom I take a serious stand, and I'm in favor of tipping bartenders because some of them get base wages similar to restaurant people. Other than that, I don't know that there are any other occupations that would be absolutely screwed without tips, cab drivers, arguably.

Mission, do you think the amount of money the person is making, including tips, should factor into the amount of the tip? The only reason I ask is because some servers at high end restaurants take home over six figures. A friend of mine, and his husband, both work at the same nice seafood and steakhouse on the strip. According to them they each make over $100k with their tips.

Quote: DRich

Mission, do you think the amount of money the person is making, including tips, should factor into the amount of the tip? The only reason I ask is because some servers at high end restaurants take home over six figures. A friend of mine, and his husband, both work at the same nice seafood and steakhouse on the strip. According to them they each make over $100k with their tips.

That's a tough question for me because, not to brag on myself, but I'm a really good tipper. I usually stick to your lower middle tier restaurants just because I know how much my tipping habits cost me. Houlihan's, Logan's Roadhouse, Applebee's, Max & Erma's, Garfield's, Longhorn...those kind of places. Especially Houlihan's. That place is terrific.

Anyway, you're not going to see me in a, "High-end," restaurant:

A.) Because I think that the prices are a waste of money.

AND:

B.) I can't imagine tipping a server over $30 could ever be justified.

I also don't order any alcoholic beverages from a restaurant because I don't want to tip on those at the full percentage, but I know I will. Thus, I just drink coffee or iced tea.

I've only eaten at one place where the total check (for two) exceeded $100 and that's because it was like $100 at The Melting Pot when my fiance and I went there. Cool place, though. I tipped $30 on that, and the service was excellent...so I felt kind of bad, because I usually tip 30% for average service. I've tipped as high as 50% for excellent service. Sometimes more. If I'm eating breakfast alone in a diner and it's some nice old lady serving me I usually just double the check.

Of course, that total of $100 was tax and everything, so I tipped on tax and beverages, too. The server probably thought it was at least an okay tip, especially since I demand almost nothing.

So, my answer is I'm not going to eat at a place unless I am prepared to tip at least 30% of the total bill, so generally, I wouldn't eat at that place. I could say, "Who needs to tip them well," if they make six figures, but if everyone stopped tipping them well, then they wouldn't make six figures. I guess I kind of wonder what their base hourly amount is.

The Other Tipping Positive

The other thing that I could've mentioned with ZK and didn't is that I also like the concept of tipping because it is essentially you directly paying someone for the service that you are given. That's why I can't argue with non-tippers, if they don't think the service has any monetary value, fine, what can I say against that?

I just look at it (in the case of restaurants) as they get paid by the employer (restaurant) but I am also the co-employer. As the co-employer, I decide how much they get paid.

Last time I went to Logan's Roadhouse the food was really good, but our waitress sucked. The first thing she did was the drinks went empty two or three times, (which is, like, the ONLY thing I really care about) she forgot to clear the appetizer used empty dishes when the entrees came out (this is after I had already stacked the dishes neatly and placed them on the side of the table myself!), my first cup of coffee was cold, my fiance didn't get her side salad at all AND we were one of only two tables that waitress had and she only managed to check on us four times in an hour. (Sit-down, Take Order, Appetizer Delivery, Food Delivery) Thus, unless she was performing an essential service, she never came by. I don't count bringing the check.

Anyway, the bill was $42 and I only tipped $5, and she was lucky to get that. 11.9%. I considered tipping her $2 or nothing. Normally a $42 check would just be $60 and keep it, which is a little over 40%, I know, but how am I supposed to hand someone $60 and ask for $2-$3 change? That looks absurd.

So, she could have gotten $18 and she got $5 and I left feeling damned generous because she sucked. People know the phrase, "You get what you pay for," tipping is a cool thing because, "You pay for what you get." I should have actually only tipped $2, (4.76%) I wouldn't have tipped nothing because she was at least superficially friendly in an obviously forced way.

Mission, I agree with almost all of your tipping points but I have a question. Do you think the current tipping system is the best way?

I like you tip well. It makes me angry to do it but the system is what it is and I will just follow. I am in favor of a pay for a table type system, or pay by the hour. You go to a restaurant and want a 4 person table, ok that costs $10 per hour. You have 4 but want an 8 top, ok no problem $20 per hour. Thst way if I want to order surf and turf then I could, or just wanted a sandwhich I could do that do. There are many times that I have not ordered a beer, dessert, or higher end food because I am not adding 20% to those already higher prices. If my cost of table was already set then there are times that I would certainly have ordered a beer.

Quote: Mission146

So, my answer is I'm not going to eat at a place unless I am prepared to tip at least 30% of the total bill, so generally, I wouldn't eat at that place. I could say, "Who needs to tip them well," if they make six figures, but if everyone stopped tipping them well, then they wouldn't make six figures. I guess I kind of wonder what their base hourly amount is.

Thank you for your detailed post. A lot of your earlier posts seemed to imply you justify large tips because the employees need living type wages. I am just trying to understand if smaller tips are justified if someone would still be making middle class wages with the smaller tip percentage. In my example of the servers making $100k if the average person cut their tip from 18% to 10% the servers are still making near $65k per year in Las Vegas which would be considered an upper middle class income.

Quote: ZenKinG

Hate to admit it after all i said about not tipping, but i just left a restaurant and i just couldnt be a stiff. I felt bad for the waiter, since i know thats what he relies on and ended up leaving about 18%. My point still remains though. These owners of these restaurants and casinos need to pay their workers, it should not be our responsibility and there would be no need to raise prices just cause youre paying ur workers 10 an hour. Its not like were even getting a great deal to begin with with the current tip system in place. Every restuarant overprices their steak etc.

All in all, me being a good person, i had to leave something. I guess i couldnt walk the walk, or whatever that phrase is, but something still needs to be done with this tipping system in this country. Ill still never tip a casino dealer though and it's nothing personal to them, but tipping at casino games is just ridiculous.

It hurts me very much when typical CEO and upper management's salaries are many hundred or thousand folds higher than salaries of their employees. If employers can pay their CEO, Zcore13, and other upper management undeserved, ridiculous and stratospheric high salaries, then it must also have MORAL responsibility to take care of their other employees in the bottom of the food chain.

You stand up to your principle, which is admirable, and your show of compassion on your fellow citizens is much appreciated. IMO, our current tipped base compensation system encourages labor abuse practices by employers and theirs managements, and it must be changed for the better.

Quote: boymimbo

I disagree with the fact that upping minimum wages make games go stinky and agree with ZK (he was right). Collusion and competition are much more likely to affect game conditions. Collusion on the strip to introduce 6-5 BJ, reducing odds on Craps, making the field double/double, 00 roulette, 1-3-6 3-card pay tables all have been rule reductions over the last years which is more about profiteering than wages.

Unlike other necessity things in life such as food, clothing, gas; gambling has an addictive element, and it is also a “luxurious thing” in life. People don’t usually compare shop “house edge” because of its addictive and luxurious nature. And also while on gambling adventure during vacation, consumers normally don’t want to burn any of their precious vacation time to compare shop for better “house edge.” Furthermore, vast majority of recreational gambling tourists are not well-versed house edge, EV. Considering addictive and time factors imposed on the consumers, and their careless attitude about spending on abstractly “luxurious” fun time, their lack of knowledge about house edge, it is easier for gambling establishment to price gouge the consumers.

Quote: 777

IMO, our current tipped base compensation system encourages labor abuse practices by employers and theirs managements, and it must be changed for the better.

You're going to see labor abuse if tipping is eliminated, they'll all make MW and not a penny more, then. Probably be expected to help clean the kitchen and bathrooms after the restaurant closes, too.

Quote: Mission146

In my lengthy post, keeping the same server hours and going from just $4.95/hour to $8.25 an hour increased server expenses by $40,000 annually based on ONLY 34 TOTAL server hours per week. If you bump it up to $10/hour, then server wage expenses go up to almost $60,000/year based on 34 hours per week.

I think that in some states, you can pay below minimum wage and consider tip income as part of minimum wage and have to bump up their salary to minimum wage if their tips don't make it there on its own.

Quote: FLSA Fact Sheet 15

Tip Credit: Section 3(m) of the FLSA permits an employer to take a tip credit toward its minimum wage obligation for tipped employees equal to the difference between the required cash wage (which must be at least $2.13) and the federal minimum wage. Thus, the maximum tip credit that an employer can
currently claim under the FLSA section 3(m) is $5.12 per hour (the minimum wage of $7.25 minus the minimum required cash wage of $2.13).

I am confused as to your math. $3.20/hour x 34 hours/week x 52 weeks a year is 5,657.70 per employee.

Quote: Mission146

You're going to see labor abuse if tipping is eliminated, they'll all make MW and not a penny more, then. Probably be expected to help clean the kitchen and bathrooms after the restaurant closes, too.

I don't think it will be the case, because we are not China or other countries where "slave" labor is the norm.

Their is nothing wrong with profiting, but it comes with a social responsibility. Your statement implies that employers are greedy have no moral/social responsibility, and it certainly gives ZK the ammunition to demand change to the tipped compensation system.

Quote: GWAE

Mission, I agree with almost all of your tipping points but I have a question. Do you think the current tipping system is the best way?

I like you tip well. It makes me angry to do it but the system is what it is and I will just follow. I am in favor of a pay for a table type system, or pay by the hour. You go to a restaurant and want a 4 person table, ok that costs $10 per hour. You have 4 but want an 8 top, ok no problem $20 per hour. Thst way if I want to order surf and turf then I could, or just wanted a sandwhich I could do that do. There are many times that I have not ordered a beer, dessert, or higher end food because I am not adding 20% to those already higher prices. If my cost of table was already set then there are times that I would certainly have ordered a beer.

I have no idea what the best way is. I don't think it's better than they don't get tips and all of the money comes from the restaurant on direct, because then prices would have to go up. Again, that saves me money, but why is an Applebee's or something like that going to be a penny over MW, or as close as they can get, depending on the labor market.

I like to think that your mean average individual person is going to be more generous than a corporation. How can we expect corporations to give and pay if we are not willing to give and pay people ourselves individually? What some (not all) people really want is a justification not to have to tip anymore.

I don't like the system of paying for a table because, just like with pizza delivery charges, the server is not going to see all of that money. They'll end up seeing MW, or something close to that. Also, most tables are for four...but what if I'm by myself? I don't want to be locked into a $10 fee, that's going to be over 50% regardless of service!

That's the other thing, it's also not going to guarantee or encourage any great level of service. The table fee is paid either way. I can't speak for your super expensive restaurants, but for low-midlow-middle end restaurants, I really think you can't beat the tipping system. I mean, I tipped $0.01 once in my life...I had to look around the entire place for my waitress (we were the only table) and she was in the bar (separate room) on some guy's lap. I had gotten so frustrated (before I thought to look in the bar) because we had been done eating for a half hour, that I went and asked the cook if there was any way he could write up a check for me to pay.

I think it makes sense to up minimum wages and remove a portion of the tipped compensation system to where a restaurant tipper can feel comfortable tipping 0 - 10% and the server is compensated. I never tip over 20% and almost never tip under 10%. Quite honestly, in many restaurants, I'll call ahead and do take out instead of sit-down because (a) I don't want to wait for my food (b) I don't want to tip.

As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.

Quote: boymimbo

I think that in some states, you can pay below minimum wage and consider tip income as part of minimum wage and have to bump up their salary to minimum wage if their tips don't make it there on its own.



I am confused as to your math. $3.20/hour x 34 hours/week x 52 weeks a year is 5,657.70 per employee.

That's the case with Illinois, it's $4.95 tipped wages minimum, $8.25 regular minimum, and then you have to do that if the tips don't get them there. My point is, without tips, they would usually just pay the $8.25.

My 34 hours was based on daily hours for the entire place, not what one employee makes per week.

$8.25 - $4.95 = $3.30 * 34 * 365 = $40,953

Quote: DRich

Thank you for your detailed post. A lot of your earlier posts seemed to imply you justify large tips because the employees need living type wages. I am just trying to understand if smaller tips are justified if someone would still be making middle class wages with the smaller tip percentage. In my example of the servers making $100k if the average person cut their tip from 18% to 10% the servers are still making near $65k per year in Las Vegas which would be considered an upper middle class income.

No problem for the lengthy post! If it's not lengthy...it's probably not one of my posts!

I don't know what is or isn't justified, that's the beauty of the tipping system, what you tip is based on whatever you think you are justified in tipping. I don't know how much better the service is at the super expensive restaurants because I don't go to those. I can't gauge the service at The Melting Pot because it is a very unique thing to begin with, he took time explaining how to properly cook the food. You usually don't cook your own food in a restaurant. Other than that, I felt like everything was the normal way things would be done.

With the super expensive restaurants, do they get that job because they are so good at what they do? Is the service really that much better? I don't see anything wrong with someone tipping what they think the service is worth, I mean, that's the idea. I like to tip the nice old ladies in diners such a high percentage (usually 100% if I am alone) because I know that most of the people who go to those are old guys who eat and then drink coffee for two hours and read the paper and then whatever the (literal) change is gets to be the tip.

Maybe I should get out of this percentage paradigm and just tip based on what I felt the service + time was worth. Maybe everyone should do that, just get out of the percentage paradigm. I like to tip buffet people at least 25% just because I don't know that they do any less overall work for me than a restaurant server. I mean, they take a drink order and then they clear my plates a bunch of times. They could be at my table several times in an hour, so they may not be taking anything other than a drink order, but they're doing more footwork. I also appreciate the used plates being taken away promptly because it makes it more pleasant.

I don't know, I guess that's my answer. I don't have anything on that, I'm sorry. I don't go to those because I do not want to tip 30% and I know that I will and I don't think any ONE meal has a value that high for the food or service. It's just negative value for me. It would be like asking me what a bank Loan Manager should get paid, I have no idea, I don't know anything about the banking industry.

Quote: boymimbo

...As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.

Especially fighting Chinese rigged prison decks. 🤣

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: boymimbo

...As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.

Especially fighting Chinese rigged prison decks. 🤣

What are rigged prison decks? Is this an inside joke?

Quote: 777

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: boymimbo

...As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.

Especially fighting Chinese rigged prison decks. 🤣

What are rigged prison decks? Is this an inside joke?

Yes. You're about a month behind on that one. Read through ZK's D Day thread.

Quote: 777

I don't think it will be the case, because we are not China or other countries where "slave" labor is the norm.

Their is nothing wrong with profiting, but it comes with a social responsibility. Your statement implies that employers are greedy have no moral/social responsibility, and it certainly gives ZK the ammunition to demand change to the tipped compensation system.

Your first line made me chuckle sardonically, I apologize for saying so. I've seen some stuff that you wouldn't believe in what you might consider, 'Normal,' jobs. You would hear the job title and think, "Oh, that's just an above board thing, nothing shady should go on there," unfortunately, that notion would be completely wrong.

I very much like my current employer (LCB) and they treat me unbelievably well. Other than delivering newspapers and bartending, LCB is the only employer I've ever truly liked. I've seen shady business practices and employee mistreatment at every employer besides LCB, the bar and delivering newspapers when I was a kid. We're talking about, 'Slave-type,' work, employee mistreatment, hazardous conditions, shady customer treatment, outright illegal practices and God knows what else. I've got some stories you wouldn't believe. 'Small businesses,' such as individual franchisees can be just as bad (or worse) than big corporations, I've worked for both.

I've got grocery store and distribution center stories that would make you puke. I pretend none of it ever happened or I wouldn't be able to shop, you should hear some of them.

Employers often ARE greedy and often HAVE NO social responsibility. Again, I have had three employers, lifetime, where I think everything that happens is correct and moral. I work for/with a bunch of terrific people here. I'm very lucky.

Other employers do shady practices and only care about the bottom line. I say that if direct wages go up then prices wlll go up because I am not blind to these sorts of things. The bottom line is often a slave unto itself, trust me. That's why individual people need to step up and compensate servers fairly and otherwise treat employees at places well. We should tip when it is called for, we should clean up after ourselves as best we can and we should not be difficult or rude to non-tipped service employees for any reason whatsoever. I've been, 'Behind the scenes,' and most of these jobs are total crap shows.

Here, read what some idiot wrote:

http://www.mommyshorts.com/2011/06/5-strategies-for-servers-with-small-children-at-the-table.html

That article discusses how a server should handle dealing with kids being around. It gives a bunch of, 'Suggestions,' for what the servers can do to make the experience easier. You really should read it. Here's a piece of wisdom #4:

Quote:

When you notice that most plates are empty, or food is being sculpted into zoo animals by bored little fingers, make haste with the check. Chances are one of the parents is drunk, and the other is now outnumbered by the children who, having eaten, are growing increasingly restless. Meltdowns are looming and the busboy will appreciate your promptness.

The server has other tables, the server may have other stuff to do. Should the server really sacrifice the service of other tables because your kids are morons!?

Also, why should one of the parents be drunk? Who the Hell goes to a restaurant and kids trashed with their kids in tow? What the Hell sort of world was I born into? Who gives a sweet fornication if the other parent is outnumbered!? Tell the first parent not to drink, and you won't be outnumbered!!!

These are the sort of expectations some people have, you should read the other four, they are all equally or more ridiculous.

Here's a Better Idea

RAISE KIDS WHO ARE NOT FRIGGIN' IDIOTS!!!

I've been taking my oldest (of two) to restaurants since he was three years old and neither of my kids have ever touched anything they weren't supposed to, played with their food, required any distraction or ever spilled anything...but the last one is probably just Variance. My son broke a glass once as we were leaving, but that's just because his jacket caught it and swept it off the table when he was getting up, that could happen to an adult. Either way, now I make him take his jacket off before sitting down and he cannot put it on until we are a few steps from the table.

I mean, just raise well-behaved children. It's not hard. If I can do it, anybody can. You just have to have punishments for ill behavior, make sure the punishments are understood BEFORE the ill behavior has an opportunity to take place and then follow through with them if said ill-behavior happens. Not difficult. Rewards are also terrific for better-than-expected behavior, my entire parenting system is largely reward-based.

But, is it the server's job to entertain my kids? No. Shut up, lady. You're ridiculous. She probably tips, like, 5% too.

Dealers are already making base wages of minimum wage, about $8/hour. Have fun trying to find a dealer who's going to work for $8/hour without tips.

The other side of it is this -- some people like tipping. It's not fair to someone to not be able to tip if they really want to, in a service where tipping has already been widely accepted.

Quote: Mission146

With the super expensive restaurants, do they get that job because they are so good at what they do? Is the service really that much better? I don't see anything wrong with someone tipping what they think the service is worth, I mean, that's the idea. I like to tip the nice old ladies in diners such a high percentage (usually 100% if I am alone) because I know that most of the people who go to those are old guys who eat and then drink coffee for two hours and read the paper and then whatever the (literal) change is gets to be the tip.

Maybe I should get out of this percentage paradigm and just tip based on what I felt the service + time was worth. Maybe everyone should do that, just get out of the percentage paradigm. I like to tip buffet people at least 25% just because I don't know that they do any less overall work for me than a restaurant server. I mean, they take a drink order and then they clear my plates a bunch of times. They could be at my table several times in an hour, so they may not be taking anything other than a drink order, but they're doing more footwork. I also appreciate the used plates being taken away promptly because it makes it more pleasant.

I don't know, I guess that's my answer. I don't have anything on that, I'm sorry. I don't go to those because I do not want to tip 30% and I know that I will and I don't think any ONE meal has a value that high for the food or service. It's just negative value for me. It would be like asking me what a bank Loan Manager should get paid, I have no idea, I don't know anything about the banking industry.

IMO.....it should be in the range of 15-25%. For expensive meals, tip towards the lower end....for expensive meals, tip towards the higher end. I'm not going to get a $10 meal at Denny's (or however much it costs) and leave a $2 tip. Probably at least $3-4.

That being said, in my experience at least, I've absolutely gotten much better service at more expensive restaurants than cheaper restaurants (on average). Yes, they do the same things at both, but they are done better at nicer restaurants. Go to one of the cafes at a Stations casino or a Denny's.....you'll get your food, 10 seconds later the waiter will come back and ask how everything is, then he'll be gone until he comes back with the check. At nicer restaurants, they'll come by periodically for refills or they'll just come by with another drink for you when you're halfway done with your current one without asking.

Buffets seem to have the worst service ever. Most places you don't order your drink when you're at the register -- and chances are, you'll be seated and either sit there and wait for someone to come by (seems like at least 5 minutes) before they take your drink order, then you can go get your food. Otherwise, you go get your food, come back, wait the same 5 minutes or so for your drink order to be taken, then they'll bring your drink several minutes later....meaning your first plate of food has been eaten without anything to drink. And chances are, it's going to be a real struggle to get a refill.

Of course -- the plates. It seems like most of the time after I get more food for round #2, I come back and my dirty plates are still there. If you're at a small table, like many buffets have, you don't have much room for your dirty plate, new plate of food, and hopefully your drink if you ever get one. Then your plates get cleared away as you're returning or shortly after you return from getting round #3. And no, I don't eat particularly fast, or fast at all for that matter.

So yeah, I don't feel bad for tipping $2-3/person at a buffet.

At the Paris buffet, we didn't get our drink order for like 10 minutes. A waiter walked by behind me, my friend was like, "Can I get a coke?" and waiter nodded and went off, I couldn't even turn around in time to order my drink. My friend finally got his drink and I ordered mine. Didn't get mine until meal was over, IIRC. Our plates never got cleared until the very end. It was pretty slow so we put our used plates on the table beside us....so it's not like the waiter forgot about us or was busy with a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, my friend tipped like $3....I said F this I ain't tipping. And as we left, I swooped up that $3 tip and gave it back to my friend after we left. That actually made me feel good, TBH.

Quote: boymimbo

I think it makes sense to up minimum wages and remove a portion of the tipped compensation system to where a restaurant tipper can feel comfortable tipping 0 - 10% and the server is compensated. I never tip over 20% and almost never tip under 10%. Quite honestly, in many restaurants, I'll call ahead and do take out instead of sit-down because (a) I don't want to wait for my food (b) I don't want to tip.

As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.

It's actually expected to tip a few bucks on take-out if it is a sit down restaurant, but I have no idea why. It's not true for pizza, fast food or any other take-out (except maybe Chinese..they usually have a tip jar, anyway) but I guess it's supposed to happen. Is it because the hostess packages the stuff for you? I guess. The hostess is not a tip-based position, though. I'm sure I tipped, but I haven't done any carry-out in probably six or seven years. I prefer just to cook if I am going to do that, Houlihan's is the only restaurant I regularly go to that outclasses my cooking, anyway. You can ask TeddyS, he's had my food.

If you partially raise wages on direct, then you'll see a partial price increase or partial service reduction. Probably. I don't see any increase in direct costs not being met by a comparable increase in prices, decrease in service/quality or a combination of the two. It just doesn't make business sense.

I'm perfectly fine with ZK doesn't tip dealers.

A few easy things to do at a buffet if you have some problems. Order a couple of extra drinks from the get go. I usually order two drinks per person. Order extra napkins from the get go. If you have a problem with a small table it isn't too difficult to put dirty dishes on another table that hasn't been bused yet. If you don't have all your silverware just swipe some from another table that isn't occupied. If you don't like the table they sat you at you can request another or just move. I've done that plenty. I haven't done this for years but if you take a backpack and some plastic containers... sit in a booth or in the back area. Get plate after plate of your favorite food and fill your containers up. After you leave get your food to your nearest refrigerator asap. The best tip that I have for buffets is make sure you have a VIP Pass or get in line right before they change the food or open or if possible get to the buffet during breakfast a few mins before the lunch change or lunch/dinner. That way your food is as fresh as possible. Getting to the buffet when it is about to close isn't as valuable as when it first opens.

Tipping at the Buffet is always less. The Buffet is one step up from the fast food places but at least they have better food. As I have stated before the argument is that the server only bring drinks and buses. Of course they do other work that we don't see.

Quote: RS

Dealers are already making base wages of minimum wage, about $8/hour. Have fun trying to find a dealer who's going to work for $8/hour without tips.

Well, they make a lower base wage than most other staff and I would argue that they have the hardest job since slot techs don't have to heft bags of nickels, dimes and quarters, generally. That's not to say I know what a dealer should get paid, I don't, but I do know that the casinos would pay as little as they could get away with if you eliminate the tipping system...and dealers will make less than they did when they were tipped. Rules will also deteriorate further OR minimums will go up, either of those things are prices.

I would say that casinos would also schedule with an eye toward minimalism, so you're not as likely to find an empty or near empty table. I think that's especially true at the lower limits.

Eliminate tipping dealers and require more wages on direct and the dealers will lose, the players will lose and the casinos will at least break even. They hold all the cards (haha, weak pun). The casinos will probably find a way that they actually come out ahead, why take chances?

Quote:

The other side of it is this -- some people like tipping. It's not fair to someone to not be able to tip if they really want to, in a service where tipping has already been widely accepted.

I agree, and how am I going to go to a restaurant or play a casino game in a recreational way at -EV and not tip? So rude. "Oh, look at me, I have disposable income and you don't!" I have disposable income because I have been very fortunate in many ways. I'm not the most patriotic guy, but truth is, I was fortunate to be born an American as opposed to some third-world country. Denmark may have been a better draw, but I'm certainly not going to complain about being born an American. Probably fewer than five countries that I would have preferred had I been asked ahead of time.

Quote:

IMO.....it should be in the range of 15-25%. For expensive meals, tip towards the lower end....for expensive meals, tip towards the higher end. I'm not going to get a $10 meal at Denny's (or however much it costs) and leave a $2 tip. Probably at least $3-4.

I'm good with that. Nothing wrong with 15%. My understanding is 18% is standard now, but didn't it used to be 15%? I have no idea why the standard expectation needed to go up.

Quote:

That being said, in my experience at least, I've absolutely gotten much better service at more expensive restaurants than cheaper restaurants (on average). Yes, they do the same things at both, but they are done better at nicer restaurants. Go to one of the cafes at a Stations casino or a Denny's.....you'll get your food, 10 seconds later the waiter will come back and ask how everything is, then he'll be gone until he comes back with the check. At nicer restaurants, they'll come by periodically for refills or they'll just come by with another drink for you when you're halfway done with your current one without asking.

I expect them to come back with refills regardless of where I am at. If they don't, then they will see something in the neighborhood of 15-20%. I consider drinks an essential of, 'Average,' service and average service gets 30% from me. I have a very low opinion of Denny's, in general, but Bob Evans or Eat 'N Park are equivalents. I would say I usually get checked on twice after the entrees come out at those places. Maybe we just have good service, in general, in my area.

Quote:

Buffets seem to have the worst service ever. Most places you don't order your drink when you're at the register -- and chances are, you'll be seated and either sit there and wait for someone to come by (seems like at least 5 minutes) before they take your drink order, then you can go get your food. Otherwise, you go get your food, come back, wait the same 5 minutes or so for your drink order to be taken, then they'll bring your drink several minutes later....meaning your first plate of food has been eaten without anything to drink. And chances are, it's going to be a real struggle to get a refill.

Five minutes is not unreasonable. Given the low tipping percentage, one person is often given anywhere from 10-20 tables that they have to get drinks for and clear plates. Like I said, they do a ton of footwork. It would be better if the drink order is on the slip, but it's not the server's fault if a buffet doesn't do it that way.

When it comes to drinks, I really only hold them accountable for how long it takes AFTER they take the initial drink order. That should not take more than three or four minutes. Ideally, should be there or immediately on the way after I get my first plate of food. The very next thing they do after taking a drink order for a table is getting said drink order.

Was it Luxor that has the self-service beverages at the buffet? That's pretty cool. Luxor or Monte Carlo? Forget which.

Quote:

Of course -- the plates. It seems like most of the time after I get more food for round #2, I come back and my dirty plates are still there. If you're at a small table, like many buffets have, you don't have much room for your dirty plate, new plate of food, and hopefully your drink if you ever get one. Then your plates get cleared away as you're returning or shortly after you return from getting round #3. And no, I don't eat particularly fast, or fast at all for that matter.

I just put them on an unused table if there is no room!

Quote:

So yeah, I don't feel bad for tipping $2-3/person at a buffet.

At most non-casino buffets, that's probably about 25%. I know that's 25% of most Chinese buffets even after drink and tax.

Quote:

At the Paris buffet, we didn't get our drink order for like 10 minutes. A waiter walked by behind me, my friend was like, "Can I get a coke?" and waiter nodded and went off, I couldn't even turn around in time to order my drink. My friend finally got his drink and I ordered mine. Didn't get mine until meal was over, IIRC. Our plates never got cleared until the very end. It was pretty slow so we put our used plates on the table beside us....so it's not like the waiter forgot about us or was busy with a bunch of other stuff. Anyway, my friend tipped like $3....I said F this I ain't tipping. And as we left, I swooped up that $3 tip and gave it back to my friend after we left. That actually made me feel good, TBH.

I agree with that, I would not have tipped one penny on that one. Actually, I would have tipped ONE PENNY it's kind of an exclamation mark to emphasize the point I am making. Make sure the penny is prominent somewhere.

Quote: monet0412

A few easy things to do at a buffet if you have some problems. Order a couple of extra drinks from the get go. I usually order two drinks per person. Order extra napkins from the get go. If you have a problem with a small table it isn't too difficult to put dirty dishes on another table that hasn't been bused yet. If you don't have all your silverware just swipe some from another table that isn't occupied. If you don't like the table they sat you at you can request another or just move. I've done that plenty. I haven't done this for years but if you take a backpack and some plastic containers... sit in a booth or in the back area. Get plate after plate of your favorite food and filly your containers up. After you leave get your food to your nearest refrigerator asap. The best tip that I have for buffets is make sure you have a VIP Pass or get in line right before they change the food or open. That way your food is as fresh as possible. Getting to the buffet when it is about to close isn't as valuable as when it first opens.

Tipping at the Buffet is always less. The Buffet is one step up from the fast food places but at least they have better food. As I have stated before the argument is that the server only bring drinks and bus.

Those are excellent tips! I actually have always done the first without thinking about it, because I usually ask for a cranberry juice and coffee at a buffet. I'd get the same thing at a restaurant, but then I'd have to pay for both, and most restaurants don't seem to have cranberry juice whereas buffets seem to have it 50% of the time.

Problem with silverware is sometimes the hostess brings it when you are seated, so if missing something, I usually just go back to the hostess in those cases. Otherwise, I agree, just take it from a different table if they pre-place it.

Moving tables, yes, but I don't know what, 'Not liking,' a table means..but I guess you could.

I also agree that stealing food is probably justifiable if you're in a position in which you are really pinched for money. Have to do what you can to get by.

It doesn't take much to amuse me...

I don't like this table... Is anything else open? Where would you like to sit sir? Now were playing the game... I want that table over there it's bigger and closer to the food. That station is closed sir. How about that table? It isn't bused yet sir! I'll wait... chop chop peasant!! When you say Chop Chop you might want to use a different voice. It is optional but I find that since my wife is from Hong Kong that an accent of Asian descent is the most funny to me. However you might get strange looks and saying peasant or pee-on might not be appropriate. Heck this whole post isn't really appropriate or advisable but I like bigger tables or bigger booths is usually the reason I might not like the table they are trying to seat me at. Another reason is they might try to seat me right beside the entrance to the dishwasher and servers are flying in and out and it gets kinda noisy listening to the servers complaining about how few tips they got or how they just got stiffed! Of course if your planning on swiping a weeks worth of food you might want a table that is hidden more. Wow you eat those steaks fast... I just served you three in the last 5 mins!?

Oh, I suppose those could be true. I always just sit wherever the place decides to put me, I'm pretty unconcerned about whatever is taking place around me, so it makes no difference to me where I am placed. I mean, I watch what's going on around me, but none of it actually bothers me. I like restaurants with a semi-open kitchen, sitting across from that is cool because it's fun to watch what they are doing.

Quote: RS

Buffets seem to have the worst service ever.

Ouch! Do buffets in Vegas and other places really do all you report? Gwarsh! Who would'da thought?

My experience at casino buffets in Biloxi is completely opposite of yours.

• Cashier records drink order when you first pay ($$ or comps)
• Hostess/Host delivers silverware as you are seated and invites you to "dig in" immediately, placing your drink order in the table centerpiece where your server sees it
• Your server either brings your drink order before you return to the table with food, or very soon thereafter, and asks whether you require anything else (steak sauce? extra napkins? etc.)
• Returning from the buffet with second helpings, you will (almost always) find the dirty plates removed during your absence. (But, I sometimes have had to move them to another table.)

I love hearing everyone's reasons why I never again want to go to Vegas to gamble. But, honestly, I find stories like those in RS's post disappointing, to say the least.

Oh you are saying that 34 hours total time per day for the entire class of workers.

Quote: Mission146

I also agree that stealing food is probably justifiable if you're in a position in which you are really pinched for money. Have to do what you can to get by.

I wonder if anyone has ever been charged with a crime for removing food from a buffet. Many buffets specifically sell to-go containers, so I could imagine that could make it easier for a buffet with a stick up their rear to call it shoplifting.

Generally I'd hope that a business wouldn't go on a witch hunt and try to prosecute their customers for petty things like this, but Casino's and their infinite wisdom continue to surprise me.

Quote: boymimbo

Oh you are saying that 34 hours total time per day for the entire class of workers.

Correct, and that's an extremely conservative assumption. That assumes it's already at bare minimum staffing at all times.

Quote: gamerfreak

I wonder if anyone has ever been charged with a crime for removing food from a buffet. Many buffets specifically sell to-go containers, so I could imagine that could make it easier for a buffet with a stick up their rear to call it shoplifting.

Generally I'd hope that a business wouldn't go on a witch hunt and try to prosecute their customers for petty things like this, but Casino's and their infinite wisdom continue to surprise me.

Again, I don't fault someone for filling an entire backpack with food if they are hard up, have to do what you can to survive. That said, if I were a supervisor/manager and caught that happening, it'd pretty much be my responsibility to 86 them from the buffet.

Casino buffets might be different. I doubt a manager would have the ability, someone would probably want to look st play and loss history first.

Boy, this thread took off.

A few notes. ..

777: what's with the shade you threw Zcore13 about being overpaid? If it's a joke, mark it as such. Came off as an insult, if so, warning. Geez, man.

Mission. Fiancee? (at Melting Pot). Is this news I missed, or are you referring to your ex before the wedding? Mazeltov if applicable.

Also, full time LCB? Are we getting paid now for the modding? Or is this about the articles and such. Another mazeltov if you're able to just do the articles and make enough to live on.

Monet : you remind me of those surveillance cams in grocery stores over the meat counter. The ones where skinny people in baggy clothes suddenly become.very well fed -looking. Some of those are pretty funny, especially when the food starts to leak or.fall out of the bottom . Not sure why I'm picturing those. Backpack? Amateur. Lol...

Tipping errata: I do sometimes pay what I call table rent. I'm going to stay as long as I want to stay at a restaurant. Sometimes it's because the service is too slow. -ev on tip most of the time, however if the server is on it, and the kitchen is behind, I'm usually not going to punish an otherwise good server.

If, however, I'm there for 3 hours for my own reasons and the restaurant reasonably expected to turn the table.2-3x in that time, I will over tip for having Bogarted the table. But not at a top - price restaurant. They expect (or should ) to only turn the table once that night if at all. And regardless of price point, I do expect.comtiuied service , not a.check-dump and no further refills or whatever after that.

Quote: Mission146

Again, I don't fault someone for filling an entire backpack with food if they are hard up, have to do what you can to survive. That said, if I were a supervisor/manager and caught that happening, it'd pretty much be my responsibility to 86 them from the buffet.

Casino buffets might be different. I doubt a manager would have the ability, someone would probably want to look st play and loss history first.

I told my wife a few weeks back thst if I were ever homeless I would find a way to vegas. At least there you can eat for free. It would be very easy to just walk into a buffet, grab a few things and walk out. There are so many buffets that you should at least not starve.

Quote: gamerfreak

I wonder if anyone has ever been charged with a crime for removing food from a buffet. Many buffets specifically sell to-go containers, so I could imagine that could make it easier for a buffet with a stick up their rear to call it shoplifting.

Generally I'd hope that a business wouldn't go on a witch hunt and try to prosecute their customers for petty things like this, but Casino's and their infinite wisdom continue to surprise me.

Stealing is stealing. However these are two bit hustler tricks. IMO if you keep your stealing small and are somewhat sharp about it... you should never get caught. I personally have never been caught doing anything petty like shoplifting, buffet shopping, movie hopping, waiting at the back door of the movies to open to sneak in...etc etc. Let's get this straight. This behavior is wrong... no doubt about that but I've found that if you keep things small you should have no problems. It never hurts to have a back up plan like a bribe or other back ups.

I've actually tested out larger things like walking out of malls or departments stores with large boxes like Kitchen Aid Mixers and other things. I've looked at so many rings on the jewelry counter that the sales girl had no idea how many I palmed. So many easy targets out there but it isn't the right way to live. It is an easy life and a very bad trade in the long run. It is so -EV you shouldn't even try. You should work hard... save your money... help your family and make strong friends and live a clean life.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Monet : you remind me of those surveillance cams in grocery stores over the meat counter. The ones where skinny people in baggy clothes suddenly become.very well fed -looking. Some of those are pretty funny, especially when the food starts to leak or.fall out of the bottom . Not sure why I'm picturing those. Backpack? Amateur. Lol...

Oh this is good. That reminds me of how many times I would just go in the grocery store and fill up a cart and just push it right out the door and keep going to my destination. Never caught once. Only one time some couple blocked the door while they were coming in. They looked at me and the cart and gave me a pause and decided to just move on. Out of my way good citizens lol!

If you do that make sure you get those brown paper bags from the chicken counter. It looks more like you paid for items instead of not having any bags in the shopping cart but honestly it doesn't matter... security is a joke in those spots and I highly doubt they are monitoring anything. The Loss is already factored into the prices.

I never did it like this but this is a pretty good video on YouTube of how to go Pro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPa2atWWVk8

Quote: Mission146

I like restaurants with a semi-open kitchen, sitting across from that is cool because it's fun to watch what they are doing.

Another point in favor of Waffle House.

_

I would not have a problem with tipping if I got an itemized list of services I wanted.

- Was server pleasant = 2%
- Did server check back to see if you needed anything = 2%
- Did server get your order right or immediately correct it ASAP= 2%
____________________________________________________________________
6% (so far)

You probably think I'm kidding, but why should I not pay exactly for what is owed and what I actually wanted and no more?

Sure would like to.

Well this is just a little Peyton Place, and you're all Harper Valley hypocrites

This thread is still going?

Tipping is horrifically complicated, but can be made simple:

1) Yes the employer SHOULD be the one paying a fare wage. While I don't support tipping I ACCEPT IT as part of our reality and world we live in.

2) Reality is they're not, so don't be that guy trying to "show" the employer up by stiffing the worker. Tip...

3) 20% for good service, 15% for average service, 10% for sub average, and 0% for sh*t service. I've personally only tipped $0 maybe 4 times in my life, and it was beyond deserved.

4) Remember though, if they did up the employee wage, then they'd just up the price of the meal, so you're not going to get out of it. So you can either be a dick to a complete stranger trying to be nice and serve you, or you can pay what you'd be paying either way regardless of the business model. It's part of the cost of eating out and being served instead of cooking a meal for yourself.

5) Group tipping - should be proportional to what you ordered, same rules apply above. Also, if you're a regular "non-tipper" you should still tip in the group, otherwise others will cover your slack and you're just taking money out of your friends pockets, and then you won't be invited out anymore either.

6) Comped tipping - if someone treats you to a comped meal, don't be that guy yet again... offer to leave tip and accept a yes, no, or split. But OFFER, as they OFFERED you the comped meal.


<sarcasm>So now I'd expect this thread to close, since we're all on the same page, right???<sarcasm>

Quote: ZenKinG

If you support tippimg youre part of the problem amd society has you by the balls.

I have zero issues with paying people extra for good service, therefore this "problem" of which you speak doesn't exist in my reality.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Tipping must have been different in the fourties and fifties, because my dad always said the tip is supposed to be based on the total before drinks and tax.

Before tax is how I always learned to tip, and that's how I still do it.

Speaking of splitting up tips with the other employees, how common is that? When I worked at a restaurant years ago, the waitstaff kept all their tips. Bartenders got their own tips. People in the back like the cooks and dishwashers (me) didn't get a share of anybody's tips.

Quote: TigerWu

Speaking of splitting up tips with the other employees, how common is that? When I worked at a restaurant years ago, the waitstaff kept all their tips. Bartenders got their own tips. People in the back like the cooks and dishwashers (me) didn't get a share of anybody's tips.

I think it is very common. My daughter worked at a chain restaurant when she was younger and the waitresses were expected to give a small part of their tips to the bartender for making the drinks they delivered to the tables. It was understood that the waitresses that didn't tip the bartenders got their drinks last and their customers would have to wait the longest.

Most bartenders that have barbacks tip them. At nicer restaurants the waiters tip out the water boys, bus boys, the food servers, the bartenders, and the somollier. I also understand that maitre'd may also get tipped for directing customers to specific waiters tables.

Quote: Mission146

The first thing she did was the drinks went empty two or three times, (which is, like, the ONLY thing I really care about)

That's really the only thing I care about as well. (Well, that and having any condiments I request while ordering brought when the food comes or before.)

My Dad suggested one time putting a chess clock on the table. Set the opponent's (i.e. waitress) time to 30 minutes, or whatever. When you finish a drink, you hit your side and her side starts running down. When she brings the next drink, she hits her side and stops her clock. However minutes are left on her clock when the meal is finished, that's her tip in %.

I think some servers would get a kick out of this, but most would just (want to) hit you over the head with the clock,

Oh my god, read this and tell me this woman isn't an entitled P.O.S. Especially that letter at the end that you're supposed to print out and hand to your server. That is a first class ticket to spitsville and terrible service.

http://www.mommyshorts.com/2011/06/5-strategies-for-servers-with-small-children-at-the-table.html

Quote: TigerWu

Oh my god, read this and tell me this woman isn't an entitled P.O.S. Especially that letter at the end that you're supposed to print out and hand to your server. That is a first class ticket to spitsville and terrible service.

http://www.mommyshorts.com/2011/06/5-strategies-for-servers-with-small-children-at-the-table.html

Good lord....that sort of privileged housewife (or husband) attitude is absolutely pervasive where I live, and it's the same exact thing as ghetto logic. They think the world owes them something the second they step out the door.

Quote: rxwine

Another point in favor of Waffle House.

_

I would not have a problem with tipping if I got an itemized list of services I wanted.

- Was server pleasant = 2%
- Did server check back to see if you needed anything = 2%
- Did server get your order right or immediately correct it ASAP= 2%
____________________________________________________________________
6% (so far)

You probably think I'm kidding, but why should I not pay exactly for what is owed and what I actually wanted and no more?

Sure would like to.

I mean, the fact that you can is the beauty of tipping. Make your own list and follow it. You can tip as much or as little as you want.

Quote: billryan

Well this is just a little Peyton Place, and you're all Harper Valley hypocrites

I don't know what any of that means aside from, 'Hypocrites,' and to the extent I am part of, 'All,' what did I do?