blackjack promo chip advantage bet
scenario: lots of promo chips.. the kind which the house takes whether you win or lose, but you keep if a tie. rules are that cash chips can be used to supplement the bet if desired. the question is: if you are dealt an excellent hand, such as as an 11 against a dealer's six, does it make sense to use a real "cash" chip for the double down portion of the bet, which you keep if you win, instead of the promo chip which will be taken after a win??? also, any other ideas for promo chip blackjack betting would be appreciated. thanks
Quote: popeyego7hi:
scenario: lots of promo chips.. the kind which the house takes whether you win or lose, but you keep if a tie. rules are that cash chips can be used to supplement the bet if desired. the question is: if you are dealt an excellent hand, such as as an 11 against a dealer's six, does it make sense to use a real "cash" chip for the double down portion of the bet, which you keep if you win, instead of the promo chip which will be taken after a win??? also, any other ideas for promo chip blackjack betting would be appreciated. thanks
You're better off using these types of chips on the player bet in baccarat.
Quote: popeyego7hi:
scenario: lots of promo chips.. the kind which the house takes whether you win or lose, but you keep if a tie. rules are that cash chips can be used to supplement the bet if desired. the question is: if you are dealt an excellent hand, such as as an 11 against a dealer's six, does it make sense to use a real "cash" chip for the double down portion of the bet, which you keep if you win, instead of the promo chip which will be taken after a win??? also, any other ideas for promo chip blackjack betting would be appreciated. thanks
This paper by James Grosjean should help. He uses the abbreviation "FS" for your type of chip, and he gives the value of the FS chip in various games and the blackjack strategy for their use.
But why? Without actually diving in to the math, my thoughts off the top of my head are:Quote: popeyego7to me, it would seem that any situation where the odds swing in the player's favor (11 vs. a dealer 6, for example), should be handled by using a real chip for the second bet...
1) Isn't the Free Bet chip only worth about half it's value?
2) Isn't the goal to get as much value from the chip as possible?
3) Isn't 11v6 a massive favorite for the bet?
Given the 3 above, I would hold all of my free bet chips and play them exclusively in these scenarios, where I know they come with an advantage, earning me more than ~50% of their face value.
Quote: popeyego7I guess i should learn how baccarat is played then. thanks
It's a pretty difficult game. ;)
Put money on he player circle, wait for dealer to either pay or take. That's it. You don't actually do anything...Quote: popeyego7I guess i should learn how baccarat is played then. thanks
This guy is just a trouble maker!Quote: RSIt's a pretty difficult game. ;)
Here you can determine which is best for you at the location you have these chips at. I assume the bj game you were to use them on was H17, and why I recommend baccarat. TCP is also a better choice.
Chester linked the great article =).Quote: IbeatyouracesI took a screen shot of the page Romes linked to.
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Here you can determine which is best for you at the location you have these chips at.
Credit where credit is due =P.Quote: ChesterDogThis paper by James Grosjean should help. He uses the abbreviation "FS" for your type of chip, and he gives the value of the FS chip in various games and the blackjack strategy for their use.
Quote: RomesChester linked the great article =).
Credit where credit is due =P.Quote: ChesterDogThis paper by James Grosjean should help. He uses the abbreviation "FS" for your type of chip, and he gives the value of the FS chip in various games and the blackjack strategy for their use.
Edited, thanks :-)
I've had much better luck just playing it there and letting it go. You literally get mixed results pending deeler or floor that never seems consistent (this is at pretty much every casino I've ever been to with this).Quote: IbeatyouracesCertainly. Never hurts to ask the dealer or floor though.
Quote: popeyego7Grosjean says blackjack, with a promo chip saved on a tie bet, is better than bacarrat. will probably stick to blackjack. Can it be assumed that Grosjean's FS blackjack deviations' chart assumes the double or split bet is with a real chip, and not a second promo chip?
If your game is S17 and good rules, then that's the best option. The average player that gets them usually doesn't have that option and is stuck with H17 in which case baccarat is now the better choice.
Quote: popeyego7even money bets... rules are favkrable but no surrender... WIZARD: does your bj deviafion chart assume a cash chip cor double down and split? i'll have the option of either. thanks
Suppose your initial bet is an FS chip and you get an 11. You want to know whether to double down with cash or with another FS chip. I'm surprised I couldn't find the answer to that important question in James Grosjean's paper. I think the answer is that you should double down with cash and not with FS chips. Here's an example--suppose, by mistake the dealer reveals his hole card to the players and he has 16, and you had bet a $10 FS chip and you have 11. If you doubled with cash you would probably be paid $20 but lose one $10 FS chip (worth about $5) for a net profit of about $15. But if you doubled with another $10 FS chip, you would probably be paid $20 but lose two FS chips for a net profit of about $10. I think all the valuable double downs of FS bets should be done with cash.
Quote: ChesterDogSuppose your initial bet is an FS chip and you get an 11. You want to know whether to double down with cash or with another FS chip. I'm surprised I couldn't find the answer to that important question in James Grosjean's paper. I think the answer is that you should double down with cash and not with FS chips. Here's an example--suppose, by mistake the dealer reveals his hole card to the players and he has 16, and you had bet a $10 FS chip and you have 11. If you doubled with cash you would probably be paid $20 but lose one $10 FS chip (worth about $5) for a net profit of about $15. But if you doubled with another $10 FS chip, you would probably be paid $20 but lose two FS chips for a net profit of about $10. I think all the valuable double downs of FS bets should be done with cash.
So, Chesterton, are you suggesting that any double down or split bet on wizard of odds' blackjack appendix 9 chart which shows a positive number should generate a real chip bet?
Quote: popeyego7So, Chesterton, are you suggesting that any double down or split bet on wizard of odds' blackjack appendix 9 chart which shows a positive number should generate a real chip bet?
For double downs, yes, I'm suggesting you double down your FS chip bet with cash if the EV for the double down is positive. I just now verified that with an infinite-deck blackjack spreadsheet--you wouldn't double with a promo chip for any of those positive EV soft or hard doubles. The Wizard of Odds has a page about promo chips, and the infinite-deck spreadsheet agrees with all his double downs.
I think our question about whether to double with cash or FS chips arises from most casinos' allowing only cash, and not more promo chips, for splits and double downs. So, the Wizard or James Grosjean don't even mention whether to double or split with cash or more promo chips.
By the way, the infinite-deck spreadsheet shows that if you may double down your FS chip only with another FS chip (and not cash), then the double downs would use regular basic strategy (no double A9, for example.)
I didn't verify the splits, yet.
CHIP HAND | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | A |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
10,10 | CASH | CASH | CASH | |||||||
9,9 | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | fs | ||
8,8 | fs | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | fs | fs | fs | fs |
7,7 | fs | fs | fs | fs | CASH | fs | fs | |||
6,6 | fs | fs | fs | fs | fs | fs | ||||
5,5 | ||||||||||
4,4 | fs | fs | CASH | |||||||
3,3 | fs | fs | fs | fs | CASH | fs | fs | |||
2,2 | fs | fs | fs | CASH | CASH | fs | fs | |||
A,A | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH |
CASH HAND | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | A |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
10,10 | ||||||||||
9,9 | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | fs | fs | ||
8,8 | fs | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | fs | fs | fs | fs |
7,7 | fs | fs | fs | fs | CASH | fs | fs | fs | ||
6,6 | fs | fs | fs | fs | fs | fs | ||||
5,5 | ||||||||||
4,4 | fs | CASH | ||||||||
3,3 | fs | fs | fs | fs | CASH | fs | fs | |||
2,2 | fs | fs | fs | CASH | CASH | fs | fs | |||
A,A | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH | CASH |
And back to the real topic at hand.Quote: CasinodepositorThose promo chips are lures for you to keep on playing. Deposit more money and they will give you bigger bonus with a bigger WR. If you don't want a WR play with real money.
Quote: ChesterDogThe strategy for splitting depends on whether the bet on the hand is a promo chip or cash. Also, it depends on the value of the promo chip. Below are my infinite-deck strategies for splitting (if splitting with an FS promo chip is allowed) the promo chip hand and the cash hand assuming a promo chip is worth about 0.5 of a cash chip.
will be tough to split tens but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.. thanks!!!!
