How can I enjoy gambling as a hobby without the mental anguish?

Okay, so after my initial obsession with gambling over the last year or two, it's time to rein it in a little.

It's not that I have lost an inordinate amount of money -- although I am a net loser. It is simply taking up too much of my time and there are better things to do and better ways to spend my money.

I play responsibly and intelligently, but I still cannot take the up and down swings. Even $.25 video poker is driving me nuts. (See my latest blog entry). When I lose I obsess frequently about making back what I lost and not taking it in stride as part of the game. I don't chase losses but it is still grating mentally.

What would you advise? Cold turkey is not an option since I still want to play occasionally.

I saw you could vote for more than one and did.

Lately I have noticed that eerie ability of the house to suck away the money even when the HE is cut way back, just as if I had been sitting there playing at the worst one armed bandit in the joint instead.

Sometimes you just have to ask yourself what else it is you like to do. Generally these other things cost plenty too, but I think you are right to think you need a mental break from it all. I'd guess we all do at some point. I can tell you that I am going to have nothing to do with the new Craps Tables in our area if they keep trying to keep the table minimums high like they are starting out with. I'll start to forget about the whole business; trust me, it can eat at you for a while to give up something, but unless you've indeed gotten to the pathological stage the interest does slowly go away. I am a gamer more than a gambler, and like games that don't involve money just fine. Some of us play board games on the internet. I also like outdoor recreation of various types.

The Craps Tables have already been put on notice in my case [g].

Quote: teddys

I play responsibly and intelligently, but I still cannot take the up and down swings. Even $.25 video poker is driving me nuts. (See my latest blog entry). When I lose I obsess frequently about making back what I lost and not taking it in stride as part of the game. I don't chase losses but it is still grating mentally.

What would you advise? Cold turkey is not an option since I still want to play occasionally.

Obsession about losses *IS* a sign of a problem. I would advise a moderation program. First, go cold turkey for say 60 days. Then set a loss limit per session, based on what is up to you. Then you mentally need to say, "I might lose my whole $200 today,k but I am OK with that." Then realize if you come out not totally wiping out or even up for a session, do somenthing nice for yourself with what is left.

I would say you need some sort of break from it to clear your head.

Some people will suggest Pai Gow because of the relatively large number of pushes making it a slow paced game. Although I play from time to time, when you think about it, it's not much different than a coin flip or a slot machine. I.E. There's not a lot you can do to affect the outcome. And that goes for a lot of casino games.

I suggest poker. But NOT in a casino. At least not initially.

Do a Google search for a poker league in your area. A poker league, unlike a bowling league, requires no commitment, and no money (or very little). The league only asks that you patronize the establishment. I.E. For the cost of a dinner and/or a few beers, you can play tournament style poker, and get your gambling 'fix' satisfied. Additionally, because it's a league rather than a cash game, people tend to be friendlier, and more likely to give you solid advice about your game. Oh, sure, there are players that are very serious and competitive, but that's a good thing too.

The league makes their money from the venue, from a portion of the food & drink sold to the players. I have played in four leagues. Three of them supply only a single person to run the games. The players deal themselves. One league supplies a dealer at every table. There's not enough money coming from the league's cut of the venue's proceeds to pay the dealers, so it's encouraged (well, expected really) to tip the dealer at the start of each tournament that night, and again at final table. That league tries to squeeze in three tournaments per night. I tip $3 each time, and $2 if I make final table. So, if I do really well, it costs $15 plus my food & beverage.

The leagues also give points based on how well you do each night, and how much your venue tab is. This is tallied and the top point earners are invited to seasonal tournatments, etc.

In one league, last year my wife won the Grand Prize: A trip to Foxwoods, with a buy-in to the $10,000 World Poker Tour event. If she came in the money, she would have to return 20% to the league. While she did far better than any prior league player had done, she missed the money.

The really key part of the league is the practice. It helps you to improve your game without risking a lot of cash.

It certainly helped me. As I mention in my thread about my July 4th weekend at Foxwoods, I spent about $200 on food and stuff, lost about $500 at craps, and didn't play anything else but poker. I came home $7 ahead.

Quote: teddys

Okay, so after my initial obsession with gambling over the last year or two, it's time to rein it in a little.

It's not that I have lost an inordinate amount of money -- although I am a net loser. It is simply taking up too much of my time and there are better things to do and better ways to spend my money.

I play responsibly and intelligently, but I still cannot take the up and down swings. Even $.25 video poker is driving me nuts. (See my latest blog entry). When I lose I obsess frequently about making back what I lost and not taking it in stride as part of the game. I don't chase losses but it is still grating mentally.

What would you advise? Cold turkey is not an option since I still want to play occasionally.

When you obsess about making money lost back, you need to revisit the Wizard's site and nail down the facts. Just because you've lost $100 on that VP machine doesn't mean the next $100 in that same machine won't go just as quickly. Machines have no memory, nor do dice or cards (save a blackjack shoe).

I would slow your play to the casino and find something else to fill your time. Buy or do thing that gratify you that originally come out of your gambling budget.


When you do go, set a loss limit for each session that you have and set an amount that you are going to play on a particular machine and don't go over it. It's difficult when you are in the moment to remember the Wizard's advice, but if you find yourself constantly chasing losses, you really should step back until your discipline is back in check. Try to track whether you've become more disciplined at your play.

Quote: teddys

Okay, so after my initial obsession with gambling over the last year or two, it's time to rein it in a little.

It's not that I have lost an inordinate amount of money -- although I am a net loser. It is simply taking up too much of my time and there are better things to do and better ways to spend my money.

I play responsibly and intelligently, but I still cannot take the up and down swings. Even $.25 video poker is driving me nuts. (See my latest blog entry). When I lose I obsess frequently about making back what I lost and not taking it in stride as part of the game. I don't chase losses but it is still grating mentally.

What would you advise? Cold turkey is not an option since I still want to play occasionally.

I once heard someone refer to VP as the crack cocaine of gambling. I don't have any clue is this is true or not. Honestly, I can't get into it at all, I get bored within 20 minutes.

Do you feel there are certain games that you obssess over more than others?

I voted for more than one, plus some advice that is not on the list.

Up and down swings are part of gambling, so in a way you are making too much of it, but maybe you would be happier with less variance. I think you should play the games you enjoy. If you have learned how to play Pai Gow and think you would enjoy playing it, by all means you should give it a try. If basic strategy is second nature to you than maybe blackjack will work. You could also try to reduce the variance in the games you already play such as making fewer bets at one time on the craps table.

I would also try a combination of fewer trips to the local casino AND ritualizing your gambling. Lets face it, the local casinos are easy to get to for a few hours of one of our favorite pastimes. If you are sitting around on a Saturday with nothing to do, that local casino is just a short drive away, and you've got a few hundred $$ handy, then it's really easy to make that trip. I suggest actually making plans to do some of those better things you mentioned. Plan one visit to your local casino every one or two months - that way you are not cutting it out entirely, and you also get yourself out of the "just go when the urge strikes" mentality.

Along with making plans for your gambling trips, it sounds like you need a plan for the gambling session. That VP win should have ended up going home with you - or at least most of it should have. (I hope I'm not sounding too much like a lecture :-o) Know what you are going to do if you win, and when you will quit if you are losing. There should always be room for some flexibility, but in the end you should stick pretty close to that plan. This could be one of the toughest things to do. I use a craps simulator to practice my betting strategy AND to develop the discipline to quit while ahead or cut my losses, and I find this helps make my actions at the table more automatic.

Cold turkey for a short time might not be a bad thing to try. If you've been gambling once a week, then make a commitment to not gamble for a month. If you find you cannot make it through the month, that could be a sign that you need help that you can't get from this forum.

Thanks for the input, guys. I think I am going to try the cold turkey for a month. Another thing that isn't in the poll is the importance of having a bankroll. It's good to have a large chunk of money set aside just for gambling. It doesn't matter in the large scheme of things (who cares where the money comes from?), but it eases the psychological sting.

Quote: teddys

Thanks for the input, guys. I think I am going to try the cold turkey for a month.

I think you are taking the right course, and it is good to have *said it* to someone, harder now to take it back. And you will have to do a follow up report in a month, see?

Quote: teddys

Another thing that isn't in the poll is the importance of having a bankroll. It's good to have a large chunk of money set aside just for gambling. It doesn't matter in the large scheme of things (who cares where the money comes from?), but it eases the psychological sting.

I am a believer in having a bankroll with you much larger than you will need. That's part superstition to fight bad luck, part to "ease the psychological sting" as you say, and part to keep from looking like the idiot who was running back to the ATM all the time like I saw in Delaware. I have become a believer in the necessity of being seen Coloring Up as a matter of honor. It shows either that you are a winner, as some other players will assume right or wrong, or that you are someone who knows how to quit before going broke.

I voted for the "It's only gambling" choice. The up and down swings are, presumably, what most of us find enticing in the first place.

I'm a $5 craps player, double odds or $12 6/8 max, with a bankroll much smaller than many of the posters here. I hit the local casino in Milwaukee two to four times a month, depending on my schedule. Like you I keep a separate gambling account that gets small, periodic deposits, since I'm a net loser, as well. But when I hit some slides (and my Excel program doesn't lie), I'll sometimes give it a rest for a couple weeks. I tend to play tight, because if that 401(g) ever hits empty, I'm done gambling.

I never go home with empty pockets. I buy in for $200, but never leave empty-handed. In fact, I never hit that second hundred dollars, keeping my loss limit at 50%, rock-bottom. Now, this can make for some heart-breakingly short sessions, but I'm only a 20 minute drive from the tables, and know I can easily return another day. When I first started gambling, I'd ride that plane all the way into the ground, and going home broke felt awful. I may still go home a loser, but without that "My God, why didn't I leave earlier?" hangover. No visits to the casino ATM for me.

On the flip side, if I've been having a run of losing sessions, I don't press my luck when I get ahead. I may get up $40 and get out of Dodge, just to remember what winning feels like, however small the amount.

I also don't gamble drunk. This rule gets broken on trips to Las Vegas, but not locally.

Finally, I'm almost as happy watching as playing. I'm fascinated by craps, and if I'm getting kicked around, I have no trouble sitting out a few shooters to catch my breath, gambling vicariously through others. The local dealers are pleasant, and the box doesn't seem to mind. I realize this may be a luxury that is specific to your location. I've not been to Las Vegas in about 5 years, and I suspect they are less tolerant of players simply taking up space at the table.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Do a Google search for a poker league in your area. A poker league, unlike a bowling league, requires no commitment, and no money (or very little). The league only asks that you patronize the establishment. I.E. For the cost of a dinner and/or a few beers, you can play tournament style poker, and get your gambling 'fix' satisfied. Additionally, because it's a league rather than a cash game, people tend to be friendlier, and more likely to give you solid advice about your game. Oh, sure, there are players that are very serious and competitive, but that's a good thing too.

I wish the leagu I found in Phienix had been more friendly. Some folks were nice but some actually went up to other people asking "why did you play that?" They seemed to forget they were in a free game where you were just expected to buy beer and food and NOT at a final table on ESPN.

Quote: teddys

Okay, so after my initial obsession with gambling over the last year or two, it's time to rein it in a little.

It's not that I have lost an inordinate amount of money -- although I am a net loser. It is simply taking up too much of my time and there are better things to do and better ways to spend my money.

I play responsibly and intelligently, but I still cannot take the up and down swings. Even $.25 video poker is driving me nuts. (See my latest blog entry). When I lose I obsess frequently about making back what I lost and not taking it in stride as part of the game. I don't chase losses but it is still grating mentally.

What would you advise? Cold turkey is not an option since I still want to play occasionally.

I feel the same as you. What you are feelings is normal. I think you are just bored with gambling. That is how I feel. I like to visit casinos for the excitment and a really hot table, but the rest has gotten really old. The last two years I have obsessed over gambling. Net loss overall and I count every dollar and sometimes give myself a hard time. But casinos are there to win. I have always looked at betting as the same money as what I would spend on a date. I bet at craps or I take a woman out. At first they got me hooked with the free food at nice restaurants, then the free cash offers to get me in, then all the free hotel nights. I have actually lost interest and am in the process of running all my comps out. One less reason to go casino hopping. I have about 3 months of free nights and I cleared $1500 in "free" cash last month. I guess as I stop going it is a matter of months as the offers run out they will stop sending them.

Quote: AZDuffman

I wish the league I found in Phienix had been more friendly. Some folks were nice but some actually went up to other people asking "why did you play that?" They seemed to forget they were in a free game where you were just expected to buy beer and food and NOT at a final table on ESPN.

While the question "why did you play that?" could be phrased in a more friendly manner, answering the question, and listening to the response is often an excellent way to learn. Some players do take it very seriously. But there's a reason for that. They are there to try to tune up their game. The "Free" / "For fun" aspect only applies to the Q&A. If they can help you to play better, then it make for a more challenging game for them, which is exactly what they are looking for.

At a casino poker table, there are going to be novice players, and players that simply play stupid hands because they once won a monster pot with that hand. But in the casino, a question like "why did you play that?" may generate an answer. But the person that asked more likely will use the answer to help him get a read the next time they are in a hand together.

There are FOUR poker leagues in my area. The one I play in most often is the one that provides a dealer at every table and therefore uses a Dealer Button, and as a result, has a more realistic game. This is also the league where it is kinda expected that you tip the dealer prior to each tournament. This is also the league with the most aggressive and skilled players. And the league where I learned the most.

The owner of this league is also one of the dealers. She used to be a poker dealer at Taj Mahal, and makes sure all the dealers know all the rules.


Duff -

Consider trying that league again.

Teddys,

It sounds to me like you need a "cooling off" period. You can't possibly expect to make back all your losses. And if you try to chase those losses, they will magnify. When you gamble, either in a casino or a stock market, you have to go in with a set of rules. It requires discipline. I've walked away from a hot table where everyone was yelling and screaming and the chips were piling up literally because I had a preset coffee break that I was not going to break. I've also come back to that same table to find out that most people stayed until things went south and bust.

I'm glad you realize that there are better things to do especially with your hard earned money than wasting it all on gambling. Hence gambling can only be fun if your risking insignificant amounts of your personal wealth. If you risk more, than gambling isn't fun, it's serious business of which you will always be a net loser over the long run.

When you take a big hit, it's natural to lament and lament for awhile. Hence its dangerous to get back on the horse right away cause your still damaged goods mentally. You need to cool off, relax, focus on other priorities, and slowly get back into the game. When you do start to get back into things, keep a record of what you do right and wrong. I could have walked away with $20 in profit, but I thought I could double it. Well thats just stupid at a $10 min table. I skipped my coffee break to go for the gold and bet it all on one hand. Well that's just stupid too. Better yet, I was up $100, and I wanted to make one last big bet. Fine, only 1. Max variance, max return. So you split your profit and make maybe a 30, 40, 50 bet. But then regardless of outcome you walk.

I feel you need a couple of small consistent wins to get back any mojo. Slowing down and taking it easy is very important. If you can't take the variance, than you shouldn't be playing. Imagine the guy who starts out with a bankroll of a $100 at a $10 min craps table. The moment he loses 2 in a row, he starts getting nervous and sweating. The moment he's down 5 in a row, he's panicking. So then he opens up his wallet, cashes in much more, and continues his losing streak. When things turn south, following rules prevent things from really getting even further out of hand.

A lot of people have different rules:
1.) Mandatory coffee breaks at preset times.
2.) Never putting more than X dollars into any one single slot machine, and always cashing out when you hit a big hand and are close to or above par. I played penny hand video poker for 50 hands at a time on $20 buy-in. Hit a three of a kind and was up $1.50. MANDATORY CASH OUT! Small win, but it's still a win. Now go take a break.
3.) Never buyin more than x dollars a certain table. If you need to get back some control, try this: walk away after you're up 2 min betting units. $5 min table, once you're up $10, WALK. See about how you feel walking away when you're up, your level of control, heart-rate, anxiety, anxiousness. (It's easier if its the last bet of the night, hence I made a $20 bet on the Field and hit it and cashed out despite disgust from the pit. Hey last bet of the night. Trying cashing out when you just barely got to the table.)
4.) Also document what you're losing and winning money on. Suppose you trade stocks and you only make money trading this one stock. Why are you experimenting buying something else? Stick with what you know. I was dying to try 3-card poker and after hitting 3 of a kind I was hooked, then I was crushed. Stick with what you know. You play craps, well play craps. You play BJ you do BJ. Experimenting can be dangerous and should be done sparingly in low denominations.
5.) Losses hurt, but if you can't put those losses behind you when you walk up to any table or machine, you shouldn't continue playing. It will fuck with your mind.

Thats my 2 cents.