Coping with losses?

I spent a month building my bankroll to $3k, winning around $100-200 every other day. When I win $100, that amount is so valuable that I will run home. However, when I lose, I would play until I recover the lost or lose my entire bankroll. Once I lose, my emotions take over me and not my head anymore. The outcome for this is breakeven/win small or lose everything.

For people who lose big, how do you cope with the situation? Any thoughts come to mind such as how to pay the bills or working at your job for nothing? Any tips on getting over the losses? How depress can you really get?

This is more psychological than mathematics.

My advice is to stop gambling for a while, and let yourself feel the pain. The alternative of chasing losses is a bad road to start going down.

Personally, every professional gambler I know sings the blues from time to time about bad losing streaks, that can last months, or even years, long. 2005 was a really bad gambling year for me, for example. If you're following the Kelly Criterion, which all professional gamblers should be, then you should drop your bet sizes, and question yourself if your bets are really as good as you think they are. This is especially true for games like sports betting and poker where the odds may not be quantifiable.

Asking these questions is a good start. Here are a few things that have worked for me. Obviously everyone is different, so these ideas might not make sense or work for you.

I keep fairly detailed records of buy-in, win/loss, what strategy I was playing, and any other pertinent notes about a session. I always have a plan for how I will play before starting a session. Sometimes things don't go according to plan.

I always have a session loss limit in my plan, so that I don't have that psychological, "I lost everything" feeling. Sometimes I blow right through that and when that happens I analyze what I did wrong and try to come up with methods to avoid that happening again. It could be putting half of each win on the back rail and never touching it or shoving chips in your pocket after each win. I have never had the problem of dipping into my bankroll when the session stake is gone.

One year I calculated that if I had stuck to my loss limits every single time, I would have come out ahead for the year instead of losing about $2K. That was pretty good incentive to do a better job of sticking to my plan!!

If I did not have the records of my sessions, I wouldn't know what I was doing wrong, or how to fix it.

I agree that taking a break can be a very good idea, but if you are on a gambling trip to Las Vegas, that can be tough to do, because all you feel like doing is winning back what you lost. Even a short break away from the casino can help - get some food, take a nap, try to focus on sticking with your plan.

A typical session at the craps table might be buy in for $500, play $5 pass line + two come bets with full 3/4/5 odds, and leave if my stake drops below $250. This might seem like far too small a bankroll for the size of my bets. If I get all three points established that is about $75 on the session stake - 15% of my buy in (30% of my loss limit). I could hit my loss limit in just three unlucky rolls. Some people say you should size your bankroll / bets to avoid 'ruin' over such short losing streaks, but I have reasons for doing this. Most importantly, this is based on what my own records told me about the way I play, and this is what makes me comfortable. My goal is to leave the table ahead (obviously) or leave before the losses are too great. First, this is my table stake, not my bankroll, which may be $2-3K for a typical Las Vegas trip. Second, it helps me recognize and "escape" from a losing session. If I started with $1000 and get down $250, things don't look that bad, but if I lose discipline, I could stay until I'm down $750. Third, I have found that it is hard to get on a win streak that makes up for losses that size. I would rather take that break, go to a different table (or casino), and get a fresh start than face the prospect of losing it all. I know that mathematically it does not make a difference, but psychologically it makes a huge difference - even if I lost, I stuck to my plan, and I walked away with something.

It's not your gambling budget; it's your entire entertainment budget that you have to plan, and the gambling budget is part of that.

1) Never gamble with more than you can afford to lose. NEVER. That is not the same as not losing an amount that hurts; for me, losing $500 stings big time. But I won't go to the casino until I have $500 EXTRA, $500 that I might have spent on something else. My hobby is photography. I might be saving $1500 toward a new lens, at $100/mo, and after 6 months decide to use that to go to the casino instead. But I will never gamble with money that is supposed to go toward the mortgage, the bills, my daughter's college tuition, or savings/retirement. I work 100% commission; if times are tough, I don't gamble. That way, when you lose, you aren't worrying about paying the bills, you are just not going to movies and not buying steak for a while.

2) Losing is supposed to sting. It is proof that you are still rooted in reality. When it stops stinging, look out. (This should probably be #1.)

3) And I mean this seriously: when you need some gaming, and you have no money, go to Wizard of Odds and play the free games there. Play the blackjack and work on your memory of the strategy, or play for $500 a hand and see if you can reach $100000. It's not the same as a casino, but methadone isn't heroin, either. The patch isn't a good smoke. But anything that keeps you out of the casino when you can't afford to go, anything that gets you to the next half hour until you don't have the urge, is good. I do this a lot, several times a week actually, mostly at Bodog. I like the games.

4) You can get really, really depressed if you don't follow #1. If losing is getting you to that point I strongly suggest you call Gambler's Anonymous, because it is affecting your life. If gambling has you at that point, if you are losing money you don't have or losing future earnings, you need to stop gambling. Disclaimer here: I am not a professional. But I read despair in between the lines in your question. If gambling is bringing you despair, you need to stop gambling.

And reading your post again, it reads to me like you REALLY need to stop. You are gambling to win money. The Wizard's 10 Commandments state, "3. Thou shalt expect to lose." Casino gambling is not something you do for profit. You do it as entertainment. All the rules and advice exist as a way to maximize your entertainment dollar, not advice on how to beat the casino for a profit. If you take advantage of all the advice, and work your comps, then you will get a fair return on your entertainment dollar. But you will stil have spent it; it will still be gone, in the long run. Sure, there will be times you win. But in the long run, you lose. I work the system so that the fun generated by the play and the experience represents good value, but I am not deluded into thinking that I'm going to leave with more than I started with.

In 2006, I was to the + almost $10,000. In 2009, I was + almost $1600. But 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2008 were all losers, and the total was well above $11,600. Such is life.

Quote: seattledice

A typical session at the craps table might be buy in for $500 ... and leave if my stake drops below $250.

Did I read that right?

Are you saying you'll get $500 in chips with the intention of never touching half of them? While I see people do this all the time - or even with bigger buy-ins, I never understood the rationale.

Personally, I would buy in with whatever I was willing to lose. In your case $250. If I lost it, I'm done, take a walk, do the re-think thing.

I find it a lot easier to bet chips if I have them, than it is to reach into my pocket to reload.

The net is the same, so why buy in for more?

Quote: seattledice

... even if I lost, I stuck to my plan, and I walked away with something.

I get the psychology of leaving with something, but it seems to me to be counter-productive by softening the feeling of having lost.

I think once you walk away as a loser, it's healthy to have that 'loser' feeling rather than to mask it. It helps you to settle down, and have a better self-analysis before going back to battle.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: seattledice

A typical session at the craps table might be buy in for $500 ... and leave if my stake drops below $250.

Did I read that right?

Are you saying you'll get $500 in chips with the intention of never touching half of them? While I see people do this all the time - or even with bigger buy-ins, I never understood the rationale.

Personally, I would buy in with whatever I was willing to lose. In your case $250. If I lost it, I'm done, take a walk, do the re-think thing.

I find it a lot easier to bet chips if I have them, than it is to reach into my pocket to reload.

The net is the same, so why buy in for more?

I agree. I always buy in for an amount I'm willing to lose and won't be hurt badly by losing. If I quit with a loss but not a complete loss, it's just because I got tired of playing, hungry, had to pee, etc.

I understand some people have a psychological reason for wanting to walk away with something, and that's fine; however, understand that you are really playing only with the loss-limit amount, not your buyin. If you do some kind of simulation or calculation of your method and you use the buyin amount, not the loss limit, your results will not apply to your actual play and may mislead you. For example, there is a formula that one can use to determine the probability of reaching some win goal, given a loss limit, in an even game:

p(win goal) = loss limit / (win goal + loss limit)

For example, if you have 20 units and want to win 5, your probability of doing so is:

p = 20 / (20 + 5) = .8

However, if you use this but actually are only willing to lose 10 units, the result is completely invalid. (This formula is actually rather pointless because: 1) craps is not an even game and 2) this formula assumes that you either reach the win goal or lose the loss limit, completely ignoring the time factor; you could play for a long, long time without doing either.)

The point I'm trying to make is, if you are not going to use your whole buyin, then your chances of "busting" are based on your loss limit, not your buyin.

Cheers,
Alan Shank

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Did I read that right?

Are you saying you'll get $500 in chips with the intention of never touching half of them?

I do the same, I have mentioned this before: a superstition about gambling when your bankroll or even your session stake is "in trouble". The dice know and will eat you alive. Now, I am admitting that this could in no way ever be proven, but knowing this is not ever going to make it die in my heart.

In fact if someone asked me I would earnestly advise him to follow the above too. I wouldnt be able to help myself!

For me, the key is comfort level in the buy in, my strategy, and wagers. Simply put, if I lose three times in a row or three times in four tries in any given session of play. I just leave the table. The "Kharma" at that time is just not right. I can return in 30 minutes, do the very same thing as before, and win. We all know that the tables change back and forth over and over again, so why fight it and lose the whole bankroll or buy in. Leave and come back later.
It seems to work for me.

tuttigym

Quote: odiousgambit

I do the same ... a superstition about gambling...

Gamblers are superstitious? Who'da thunk it?

But seriously, if 'superstition' is the reason anyone buys in for more than they intend to risk, I'm not gonna argue. I'm not superstitious, but I will bow to the supertitions of others.

---

One of my favorite sayings is "Superstitions are archaic, childish fears. But how much does it cost to knock on wood?"

Darktin, you are gambling all wrong. If you are having "control problems" at the casino, do yourself a favor and take out your money before hand. Leave you bank cards and visa cards at home or in the hotel safe. When the money is gone, it's gone. You will play a more disciplined and smarter game.

Play with what you can afford with. Have a 401(g) for your gambling budget and don't go outside of it. If you are finding that you can't, stay away from the casinos and lottery tickets until you can.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: seattledice

A typical session at the craps table might be buy in for $500 ... and leave if my stake drops below $250.

Did I read that right?

Are you saying you'll get $500 in chips with the intention of never touching half of them? While I see people do this all the time - or even with bigger buy-ins, I never understood the rationale.

Personally, I would buy in with whatever I was willing to lose. In your case $250. If I lost it, I'm done, take a walk, do the re-think thing.

I find it a lot easier to bet chips if I have them, than it is to reach into my pocket to reload.

The net is the same, so why buy in for more?

Quote: seattledice

... even if I lost, I stuck to my plan, and I walked away with something.

I get the psychology of leaving with something, but it seems to me to be counter-productive by softening the feeling of having lost.

I think once you walk away as a loser, it's healthy to have that 'loser' feeling rather than to mask it. It helps you to settle down, and have a better self-analysis before going back to battle.

Well, I did say, "Obviously everyone is different, so these ideas might not make sense or work for you."

The play I described is an alternative to the "play until I recover the lost or lose my entire bankroll" that the OP described.

I figured I'd take some heat (good natured heat of course) and I tried to give some of my reasons. This approach was derived from numerous books and my own experiences. I don't think it is softening the feeling of having lost or masking it by making a plan and sticking to it. In fact, with this method I have the opporunity to feel like a real loser if I blow right through the loss limit and lose it all.

Yes, I understand that my real session loss limit is only $250, so why not just buy in with $250 and play it out? In my experience, after I lost an entire session stake, I had a stong desire to "get even" - to rush to the next session and play too aggressively to try to win it back. After walking away from the table having lost half a session stake, I am much calmer. I have that 'loser' feeling, but I don't need to get back out there and try to win it back with foolish bets. Trying to "get even" is a dangerous place to be when you are gambling, because that can lead to quickly losing the next session stake, and the next, and all of a sudden your entire bankroll is gone. (That part is fortunately from the books and not my own experience.)

Quote: darktin

when I lose, I would play until I recover the lost or lose my entire bankroll.

Quote: darktin

Once I lose, my emotions take over me and not my head anymore.

Quote: darktin

Any thoughts come to mind such as how to pay the bills or working at your job for nothing?

Quote: darktin

How depress can you really get?

Quote: darktin

This is more psychological than mathematics.

Read these statements carefully.

darktin: gambling is not for you. Please, seek counseling. How depressed can you really get? Enough to kill yourself. If you are depressed enough to go to a gambling forum and ask that question of total strangers, then you are pretty depressed and calling for help. Call Gamblers Anonymous. And do it now, before gambling ruins your life.