What is this BS?
Quote: skrbornevrymin
Because no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God, the technical definition of "sin" is anything that seperates us from God or makes us "unclean." It is up to us to keep ourselves "clean", but God knows that this is impossible for man to actually do in practice. Therefore, he provided an atonement for the remainder though his Son Jesus Christ, who was the only person who ever lived who was perfect enough to do such a thing. Through Christ's atonement we are able to become "clean" again and thus have the abiliity to enter into the presence of God.
This idea has always seemed monstrous to me. A person who through his entire life committed the most vile of crimes murder, rape, and what have you who in the last seconds of his life realized the err of his ways and found Jesus is somehow a more worthy person in the eyes of God then a Buddhist or atheist who has spent his entire life trying to do good and make the world a better place.
Also everyone born before roughly 40 AD or even worse roughly the mid 1500s for many parts of the world are doomed to hell because they could not possibly come to Jesus. God in his "omnibenevolence" decided to doom millions perhaps billions of people to eternal punishment because he could only be bothered to introduce Jesus into the middle east in the first century.
Quote: TwirdmanThis idea has always seemed monstrous to me. A person who through his entire life committed the most vile of crimes murder, rape, and what have you who in the last seconds of his life realized the err of his ways and found Jesus is somehow a more worthy person in the eyes of God then a Buddhist or atheist who has spent his entire life trying to do good and make the world a better place.
To me this proves that, for all their talk about morality and the need to enforce it at the point of a gun, Christianity does not value actions as much as belief. And if that's not bad, I want to know what it is.
Quote:Also everyone born before roughly 40 AD or even worse roughly the mid 1500s for many parts of the world are doomed to hell because they could not possibly come to Jesus. God in his "omnibenevolence" decided to doom millions perhaps billions of people to eternal punishment because he could only be bothered to introduce Jesus into the middle east in the first century.
Not to mention the wisdom, or lack thereof, in the idea of revealing this "truth" in a tiny, isolated portion of the world, when large, cosmopolitan centers like Athens, Rome, Antioch, Ctesiphon or Alexandria were nearby.
Quote: AxelWolfCan you answer some hard questions
My child I would welcome your question with open arms, but its Sunday and I have the day off. Thanks for your question.
G man upstairs
Quote: Sabretom2When I mention that there are very few people on this site I would care to meet, I'll reference this thread.
Quote: Sabretom2There are many on this forum I would rather not meet. Especially those who seem to spend most of their time letting me know they're smarter than me. <LINK: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/religion/14425-are-people-who-join-atheist-groups/3/#post252517 >
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you're not exactly winning the debate.
Quote: skrbornevryminActually, I agree with Nareed in saying that some interpretations of "Christianity" have caused and can cause very bad and depraved things to happen, both historically and in the world today.
Your opinion that interpretations can can cause bad and depraved things to happen is a modification of her opinion and therefore not in agreement with it.
Do you agree with the original comment?
Quote: NareedI always knew Christianity was bad. But given my view that most people are basically decent, I had never imagined it was really so depraved.
She deliberately started this thread to take that swipe.
Christianity is bad and depraved.
No attempt by her to modify it.
Either agree with the swipe as it is written, or don't.
Quote: gpac1377Quote: Sabretom2There are many on this forum I would rather not meet. Especially those who seem to spend most of their time letting me know they're smarter than me. <LINK: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/religion/14425-are-people-who-join-atheist-groups/3/#post252517 >
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you're not exactly winning the debate.
Inferior is not what I'm feeling.
Quote: TwirdmanThis idea has always seemed monstrous to me. A person who through his entire life committed the most vile of crimes murder, rape, and what have you who in the last seconds of his life realized the err of his ways and found Jesus is somehow a more worthy person in the eyes of God then a Buddhist or atheist who has spent his entire life trying to do good and make the world a better place.
Also everyone born before roughly 40 AD or even worse roughly the mid 1500s for many parts of the world are doomed to hell because they could not possibly come to Jesus. God in his "omnibenevolence" decided to doom millions perhaps billions of people to eternal punishment because he could only be bothered to introduce Jesus into the middle east in the first century.
Death bed confession is not repentance. Only God could decide what to do with a person who spent his life being evil and doing bad things.
The atonement applies to anyone who accepts it throughout the eternities and repents accordingly. Just because they weren't aware of it when they lived on the earth doesn't mean it won't be useful to them in their eternal progression. Repentance does require that they recognize the error of their ways and do their best to correct the wrongs they have committed. As such, many people leave this life with a lot of work left to do.
In response to others:
No, I do not believe that pure Christianity is depraved or bad. However, I do believe that many have of twisted its teachings and used it's name and power to motivate people to do bad things. Saying you're Christian or doing things because you believe they are justified by Christian teachings does not make it so.
In its purest form, I think that Christian teachings can be a motivating factor for people to try to do good in the world and improve the lives of themselves and others. The organization of churches often helps pool and direct resources more effectively and efficiently than individuals can do by themselves.
Quote: NareedI said there is no such thing as sin. I will kindly thank you not to say I believe in the idea of sin.
Ok. rather than calling it "sin", what I meant was varying degrees of "badness and depravity."
Quote: NareedTo me this proves that, for all their talk about morality and the need to enforce it at the point of a gun, Christianity does not value actions as much as belief. And if that's not bad, I want to know what it is.
Christianity should never be forced on anyone, using any kind of pressure whatsoever, including but not limited to weapons, torture, unfair laws, threats, etc. People should have access to information, including instruction by knowledgeable teachers, and left to make their own choices concerning it. Actions, both good and bad, are actually more important than words when it comes to religion and fairness. Christ himself taught that the actions and sometimes even the thoughts of people would be the most important factors in determining who is good or bad - way more important than what they said or wrote. Action and intent always trumps lip service and bullying.
Quote: NareedNot to mention the wisdom, or lack thereof, in the idea of revealing this "truth" in a tiny, isolated portion of the world, when large, cosmopolitan centers like Athens, Rome, Antioch, Ctesiphon or Alexandria were nearby.
I don't know why Christ was born or lived where he did. I suppose God must have had his reasons.
Quote: Sabretom2Inferior is not what I'm feeling.
Oh no, of course not.
I was referring to myself. Special commendation to 24Bingo for casually stringing together three consecutive words I couldn't define, including one I'm pretty sure I've never seen before in my life.
Quote: skrbornevryminDeath bed confession is not repentance.
Well my plan is screwed :(
Quote: skrbornevryminChristianity should never be forced on anyone, using any kind of pressure whatsoever, including but not limited to weapons, torture, unfair laws, threats, etc.
I wish you could convince Christians of that.
Quote:Actions, both good and bad, are actually more important than words when it comes to religion and fairness.
I did not say words. I said belief.
Quote: djatcMy child I would welcome your question with open arms, but its Sunday and I have the day off. Thanks for your question.
G man upstairs
Really? The Sabbath is Saturday! Oooops!
Quote: TankoShe deliberately started this thread to take that swipe.
Christianity is bad and depraved.
You seem to have developed an obsession about it. So let me clarify some things:
1) I did not start this or any thread to take a swipe at anything. If I wanted to take a swipe at Christianity by calling it "bad and depraved," I would start a thread called something like "On the evil and depravity in Christianity."
Quote:No attempt by her to modify it.
2) No, no attempt at all, because it doesn't need to be modified. Consider: a) God creates all humans; b) God predestines all humans to either salvation (heaven, one assumes) or damnation (one pressumes hell). Given these two premises, a number of conclusions can be drawn. The most important one is that God is a sadistic psychopath who creates life for the purpose of tortuing it for all eternity without hope of reprieve, he also seems to believe in punishing people for things they cannot control (ie how he made them to begin with). This I call depravity.
3) Whether all Christianity is depraved or not, or merely this predestination current of it, remains an open question to me.
4) Either way, I do NOT think or assume that all Christians are bad people or depraved. In fact I believe the vast majority are decent people.
