here it is
Quote: aceofspadesEven if I were to susppend disbelief and go with the story of all the world's animals being on board an ark...dinosaurs...really...?!?
here it is
Funny stuff:
And normal people can conclude that these fundies are imbeciles.Quote: FundiesThe Bible records the genealogies from Adam to Christ. From the ages given in these lists (and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth around 2,000 years ago), we can conclude that the universe is only a few thousand years old (perhaps just 6,000), and not millions of years old.
Quote:When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind,”
Is this implying evolution is real in their minds? I thought that was a definite no-no.
Only if it involves sKyEnCeQuote: wudgedIs this implying evolution is real in their minds? I thought that was a definite no-no.
Quote: aceofspadesEven if I were to suspend disbelief and go with the story of all the world's animals being on board an ark...dinosaurs...really...?!?
here it is
Oh my. Another Clarence Darrow wannabe trapped in Divorce Court. SIGH !
I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of.
Clarence Darrow
Quote: wudgedIs this implying evolution is real in their minds? I thought that was a definite no-no.
No they got all kinds of crazy to explain it away. Evolution is real but only micro evolution you can never change kinds. So zebras descend from horses but an elephant can never change "kinds" and become a whale. No idea what a kind actually is but thats what they go with.
... Naomi Watts?
Quote: s2dbakerQuote: aceofspadesEven if I were to susppend disbelief and go with the story of all the world's animals being on board an ark...dinosaurs...really...?!?
here it is
Funny stuff:And normal people can conclude that these fundies are imbeciles.
As someone who was raised in the church, went to Christian school K-12, and was taught creationism, I'm actually looking forward to the Bill Nye vs. Ken Hamm debate.
My current beliefs are pretty much agnostic but I hang around a lot of scientist types (my fiance has a masters in Molecular and Cellular Biology). So they get outraged a lot about this stuff. I know plenty of smart people who believe in young-earth, literal 7-days creationism. Hopefully the debate will be interesting.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm actually looking forward to the Bill Nye vs. Ken Hamm debate
I'm looking forward to the Face vs Ken Ham street fight, where the loser has to STFU forever.
" Were You There ? ".
P.S. Do not kill the messenger.
Or how the penguins all ended up in the Antarctic but not the equally hospitable Arctic?
Quote: paisielloI would be curious to know how, after the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat, the marsupials migrated en masse to Australia? Surely some would have stopped along the route, to leave a few fossils here or there, maybe in India for example.
Or how the penguins all ended up in the Antarctic but not the equally hospitable Arctic?
All of these questions have already been answered by Lafayette Hubbard .
If the universe is only 6000 years old then how is it the the light from the Andromeda galaxy visible? If God put the light waves in between us and the stars then that would make every supernova that we see, a big fat lie.Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: s2dbakerQuote: aceofspadesEven if I were to susppend disbelief and go with the story of all the world's animals being on board an ark...dinosaurs...really...?!?
here it is
Funny stuff:And normal people can conclude that these fundies are imbeciles.
As someone who was raised in the church, went to Christian school K-12, and was taught creationism, I'm actually looking forward to the Bill Nye vs. Ken Hamm debate.
My current beliefs are pretty much agnostic but I hang around a lot of scientist types (my fiance has a masters in Molecular and Cellular Biology). So they get outraged a lot about this stuff. I know plenty of smart people who believe in young-earth, literal 7-days creationism. Hopefully the debate will be interesting.
Quote: BuzzardFace, I just received a phone call from Kenn Hamm. As for the origins of life and evolution, he wanted me to ask you this question,
" Were You There ? ".
P.S. Do not kill the messenger.
Of course not.
You, on the other hand... ;)
Quote: BuzzardDamn, I hate playing straight man.
I kid because I care =)
Quote: s2dbakerIf the universe is only 6000 years old then how is it the the light from the Andromeda galaxy is visible? If God put the light waves in between us and the stars then that would make every supernova that we see, a big fat lie.Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: s2dbakerQuote: aceofspadesEven if I were to susppend disbelief and go with the story of all the world's animals being on board an ark...dinosaurs...really...?!?
here it is
Funny stuff:And normal people can conclude that these fundies are imbeciles.
As someone who was raised in the church, went to Christian school K-12, and was taught creationism, I'm actually looking forward to the Bill Nye vs. Ken Hamm debate.
My current beliefs are pretty much agnostic but I hang around a lot of scientist types (my fiance has a masters in Molecular and Cellular Biology). So they get outraged a lot about this stuff. I know plenty of smart people who believe in young-earth, literal 7-days creationism. Hopefully the debate will be interesting.
I'm not interested in playing devil's advocate and pretending to defend creationism. I suggest you forward your questions to Mr. Nye for inclusion in the debate :).
Mr. Nye is more than capable of making these fools look foolish without my help.Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm not interested in playing devil's advocate and pretending to defend creationism. I suggest you forward your questions to Mr. Nye for inclusion in the debate :).
Quote: paisielloI would be curious to know how, after the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat, the marsupials migrated en masse to Australia? Surely some would have stopped along the route, to leave a few fossils here or there, maybe in India for example.
That's a good point. In the second place, it would take any animal a very long while to migrate to a distant part of the world, especially one seaprated from the nearest land by miles and miles of deep blue ocean. Therefore logically there should be some fossils of Australian amrsupials en-route from the Middle East to the Pacific Ocean.
But in the first place, if these people were opened to factual evidence, they woulnd't believe in nonsense like creationsim.
Quote: AcesAndEightsMy current beliefs are pretty much agnostic but I hang around a lot of scientist types (my fiance has a masters in Molecular and Cellular Biology). So they get outraged a lot about this stuff.
Kind of like people here get all worked up over, say, "systems"?
But it is important, to a point. Sciences rest on one or two overarching theories. Geology depends on plate tectonics, for example. Physics on Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Biology rests upon Evolution.
Interestingly Christians in the New Testament interpret this story completely figuratively comparing the flood to the waters of Baptism that but an end to sin and a new beginning to goodness.
Why dose god only want stupid people in heaven? Studies show the smarter you are the the less likely you believe in god.Quote: FrGambleI'm sorry I haven't been posting that much lately. This is an interesting topic because I agree with folks like Nareed and even s2dbaker on this one. There are many ancient stories and archaeological evidence of great floods that occurred in many different cultures. There is no reason to doubt that the story of Noah revolves around one such flood. The truth and sacredness of the message of the story remain intact even through the figurative language used to describe a worldwide flood or an ark big enough to hold all the animals of the world and feed them for 40 days. The Biblical truth of the story (remember the Bible is a book of faith, not science) remains: sin is like a destructive flood that can wipe out entire communities and our salvation lies in trusting in God and living justly like Noah.
Interestingly Christians in the New Testament interpret this story completely figuratively comparing the flood to the waters of Baptism that but an end to sin and a new beginning to goodness.
Why is god so tricky?
Why dose god let innocent babies get raped and killed?
We need to quit asking how god got all the dinosaurs on the ark. He is god, remember he can do anything. He shrunk them all down into specks of dust. Of course, He had Noah build a ship instead of a space craft just for kicks.
Quote: FrGambleThis is an interesting topic because I agree with folks like Nareed [..]
Quick! Someone get down into Hell and check the weather! ;) (*)
Quote:There are many ancient stories and archaeological evidence of great floods that occurred in many different cultures. There is no reason to doubt that the story of Noah revolves around one such flood.
Maybe. Maybe it was all made up just to "explain" the existence of rainbows. This seems flippant, but it's hardly the only theological connection to water droplets scattering the Sun's spectra. In Norse mythology, the rainbow is the bridge that connects the world to Asgard.
(*) Ok, that was a bit of an exaggeration. I do know the common belief is that parts of Hell are already frozen.
Not so.
This article shows there are plenty of societies that have no inkling of a flood myth. As an aside, I highly recommend this magazine.
Frank Scoblete, author of "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic"
How can there be someone named "Woodmorappe"? Seems like a hoax.Quote: Mosca"Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe..." Oh my. How could there be such a thing as a creationist researcher?
.. and I was right:Quote: s2dbakerMr. Nye is more than capable of making these fools look foolish without my help.
By the way, do the creationists oppose nuclear energy? Everything that physicists know about nuclear power is built upon the premise that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, so surely Ken Ham must be skeptical that these arrogant phycists are competent enough to build safe nuclear reactors. Surely Ken Ham wants all of these potential Chernobyls shut down immediately. Amirite?
Quote: renoYikes, even televangelist Pat Robertson acknowledges that the earth is much much older than 6,000 years. Robertson happens to think that Ken Ham is a fool who gives Christianity a bad name (which is kinda funny coming from Pat Robertson.)
By the way, do the creationists oppose nuclear energy? Everything that physicists know about nuclear power is built upon the premise that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, so surely Ken Ham must be skeptical that these arrogant phycists are competent enough to build safe nuclear reactors. Surely Ken Ham wants all of these potential Chernobyls shut down immediately. Amirite?
It's saddening that many people equivocate "creationist" with young-earth creationism.
The fact is, apart from 20th century Christianity in the US, a high % of Christians were/are old-earth, and also local-flood theorists, which easily explains all the crap brought up in here about Noah's flood.
So God lied in Genesis 6:17 when he told Noah..Quote: festerZitIt's saddening that many people equivocate "creationist" with young-earth creationism.
The fact is, apart from 20th century Christianity in the US, a high % of Christians were/are old-earth, and also local-flood theorists, which easily explains all the crap brought up in here about Noah's flood.
If God lied about that then what else did he lie about?Quote: God/Jesus/SpiritFor behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die.
Quote: s2dbakerSo God lied in Genesis 6:17 when he told Noah..If God lied about that then what else did he lie about?
You do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
Quote: festerZitYou do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
So you are the Christ, the great Jesus Christ, prove to me that your no fool walk across my swimming pool…..that's all you need do and I'll now it's all true…….Jesus Christ Superstar.
No more questions.
Quote: treetopbuddyQuote: festerZitYou do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
So you are the Christ, the great Jesus Christ, prove to me that your no fool walk across my swimming pool…..that's all you need do and I'll now it's all true…….Jesus Christ Superstar.
No more questions.
King Herod, is that you?
Quote: treetopbuddyQuote: festerZitYou do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
So you are the Christ, the great Jesus Christ, prove to me that your no fool walk across my swimming pool…..that's all you need do and I'll now it's all true…….Jesus Christ Superstar.
No more questions.
That was a pretty amazing bit of scholarship followed by, what, the comics page? This board....lol
Yes, Why did God lie in Genesis 6:7 when he saidQuote: festerZitYou do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
and what else did He lie about?Quote: God/Jesus/SpiritSo the Lord said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them."
Quote: s2dbakerYes, Why did God lie in Genesis 6:7 when he saidand what else did He lie about?Quote: festerZitYou do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
Sigh, apparently you can't read and comprehend 2nd grade level English....
I have no issues comprehending English. Please re-ead Genesis 6 and then tell me how in any context that the flood described therein could be localized and still acheive the goals set forth in verse 7.Quote: festerZitQuote: s2dbakerYes, Why did God lie in Genesis 6:7 when he saidand what else did He lie about?Quote: festerZitYou do realize that the Old Testament wasn't written in modern English, correct? Ancient Hebrew had a total vocabulary of about 5,000 words, compared to up to a million for modern English.
The ancient Hebrew word translated earth "erets" is the same word they used for a piece of land.
The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground." We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.
The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.
Any other questions?
Sigh, apparently you can't read and comprehend 2nd grade level English....
That new Noah movie is going to bomb.Quote: BBCThe film, which is thought to have cost more than its $125m (£78m) to make, received negative reactions following test screenings across the US.
The movie also prompted controversy among conservative Christians, leading Paramount to add a disclaimer to marketing material that artistic licence had been taken with the retelling of the story.
Did Bill Nye stay off being too technical figuring that a bunch mostly local loyal to Ken Hamm's freakshow attending the debate right there at the Ken Hamm freakshow would not understand the basics of physics? I think he should have emphasized the speed of light proof that the universe is not 6000 years old. I enjoyed the debate but felt that Bill Nye held back on really blasting him and was too polite... I would have asked him about what Jesus and pals did as far as saddles for their dinosaurs, you know, questions about some of those displays!Hahahaha Bill Nye still clearly won the debate and when you ask these people a technical question they can't answer they start quoting bible verses!
Here's the difference between religion and science, as is easily seen from a little study of the contrast between these two individuals... Science is based on looking at the physical evidence and all known data to come up with conclusive proof, whereas religion tries to come up with the physical evidence based on their conclusive proof, the reverse! Anyway, the flood--- Let's talk big general blow it right out of the water proof like with the speed of light thing in simple terms that even if you are from the Ken Hamm school of thought you can grasp--- WHERE DID ALL THAT F**KING WATER GO??? Enough water to flood the entire planet, where did it come from? Melt down every bit of frozen ice on the planet and you still don't have enough water to flood the entire planet (Although it would be a bad time to try and vacation in the Maldives or even NYC for that matter) but that much water didn't exist on the planet! Where did it all come from? Where did it all go after the flood if it came from somewhere? Was this a matter of this supreme being deciding to break Noah's balls and check his skills on being able to round up a male and female platypus and then make him place them back in their original geographical region and whoever missed the boat (loved that cartoon) was in trouble. That's why we don't have Tyrannosaurus Rex running around in Yellowstone Park today... Noah forgot them!
Even if Noah somehow built a vessel of this size and somehow managed to drop off specific species all over the world somehow for them to flourish after the flood... can you imagine the time and trouble to travel the world and drop off various species after the flood so they end up the way they are today??? Because that's what he must have done! This is what the forensic evidence supports anyway... That's why a bison is in the US but not in Portugal! Why a diamondback rattlesnake is in Arizona but not in Norway! It has to do with how Noah dropped everyone off after the flood! Okay, so even if he pulled all that off, where did all that water go to after the flood?? Some things don't add up on this worldwide flood thing and the people that dreamed this all up knew that the earth was flat also, so listening to everything they say wholeheartedly might be questionable. "Have faith I tell you!" Well, you go with magical fairies and mythological stories if you want but I will go with physical forensic evidence, physics and scientific method, leaving me open in trying to understand the truth.
Quote: Tarzan
Here's the difference between religion and science, as is easily seen from a little study of the contrast between these two individuals... Science is based on looking at the physical evidence and all known data to come up with conclusive proof, whereas religion tries to come up with the physical evidence based on their conclusive proof, the reverse!
What you are describing is not religion but rather how religion does science - which it should not do (as evidenced by that debate). You have to remember though that as ridiculous as religion looks trying to do science, science looks even more ridiculous trying to do religion.
Quote: FrGambleWhat you are describing is not religion but rather how religion does science - which it should not do (as evidenced by that debate). You have to remember though that as ridiculous as religion looks trying to do science, science looks even more ridiculous trying to do religion.
Of course something rational attempting to explain irrational looks ridiculous.
I doubt you will have the answer to this but ill ask anyways.Quote: FrGambleIt's more like a 'what' trying to explain a 'why' that makes it look ridiculous.
I assume people who believe in god believe he is all knowing all powerful and can ANYTHING. God does Miracle all the time according to religion. He created the heavens, earth and man, for God sakes.
He must have known civilization would advance you think he would have directed man to make the bible less ambiguous, so not to create so much confusion. Any idea why he can just change the bible( we wouldn't even know) and clear some things up for us?
Why did he stop doing so many incredibly obvious miracles?