Shroud of Turin?
Quote: FrankScobleteWhat do you think of the latest findings?
Independent tests in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology concluded with 95% confidence that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD.... Pope Francis issued a carefully worded statement which urged the faithful to contemplate the shroud with awe, but appeared to stop short of affirming its authenticity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin#Radiocarbon_dating
Quote: EvenBob... that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD.
I haven't followed the latest info, but my understanding is that the "faithful" are now claiming that those 1988 tests involved fibers that were used to repair the shroud around the 13th century, not original threads of the fabric. I, of course, have no factual information to present, but such a claim sounds a bit like a stretch made in desperation.
Quote: DocI haven't followed the latest info, but my understanding is that the "faithful" are now claiming that those 1988 tests involved fibers that were used to repair.
They tried that for years but it didn't fly. When the Pope
won't even declare its real, that's good enough for me.
Catholics just love props, things they can see, touch and
feel. Look at all the icons they have, its endless. Everything
from rosary beads to the plastic Jesus on your dashboard.
Quote: FrankScobleteWhat do you think of the latest findings?
The latest findings claim three independent carbon tests date the Shroud to between 200 B.C and 200 A.D. Could be.
Personally, the Shroud is an artifact just like the stones all around the Holy Land. Jesus walked on those stones. He may, or may not, have been covered by the Shroud. We'll never know, just as we'll never know which stones he walked upon.
Quote: midwestgbThe latest findings claim three independent carbon tests date the Shroud to between 200 B.C and 200 A.D. Could be.
Personally, the Shroud is an artifact just like the stones all around the Holy Land. Jesus walked on those stones.
He also breathed the same air we're breathing
now. Scientists say there's a good chance that
in your lifetime you will breathe some of the very
molecules that Jesus breathed. I'm high just
thinking of it..
Quote: EvenBobHe also breathed the same air we're breathing
now. Scientists say there's a good chance that
in your lifetime you will breathe some of the very
molecules that Jesus breathed. I'm high just
thinking of it..
Years ago I had the idea of selling bottled "Air Jordan." I would go to a basketball arena with cannisters... wave them around... close them... stick on a label that said "Air Jordan."
then I found out someone else had the idea first.
then there was my original idea to sell one ounce packages of Miami grass... cut from my own lawn and put into one ounce sandwich bags with an insert that talked about the Miami drug trade. that is my idea. don't steal it.
Quote: terapinedI have always been fascinated by the shroud. Its an incredible artifact. What's even more incredible is that its literally impossible to reproduce. That photographic negative of a man on the shroud is impossible to reproduce. Their are no dyes. A photographic negative image from the 1st century is a miracle in itself. That modern tech cant reproduce it is also a miracle. Science may try to date the cloth, but science cant determine how the image was created. If its a fake, how did the faker create the image. I'm an atheist and am truly fascinated by this shroud.
How do you know it is really the image of a man? What if it is just how the cloth aged over the years?
I've seen too many images in peanut butter, moldy bread, tree knots, bathroom moisture on windows....
Quote: AlanMendelsonHow do you know it is really the image of a man? What if it is just how the cloth aged over the years?
I've seen too many images in peanut butter, moldy bread, tree knots, bathroom moisture on windows....
Have you seen the negative image enhanced by looking at it in a photographic negative format. All light areas dark, all dark areas light. Definitly a man. Also the dark fibers have been examined by microscope and only very barest of the top layer of fibers are dark. Its not mold. Its not dye. Another fascinating aspect is that the hand wounds are not on the hand but on the wrist. All art depicts the nail wounds through the hands. Yet in a crucifixion If you did nail through the hands, the weight of the body would rip right through the nails in the hands but if you nail just below the wrists, the body stays on the cross despite the weight of the body.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/07/italy.turin.shroud/
Quote: rxwineScientist re-creates shroud.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/07/italy.turin.shroud/
That's pretty fascinating. This recreated shroud. Has this been examined independent scientists? Where are the high resolution pictures of this recreated shroud? Where are the microscopic high resolution comparisons? Has it been submitted for aggressive peer review. An announcement means nothing. The shroud of Turin has a pretty detailed image, Is the reproduced image as detailed? Inquiring minds want to know. I read the article and expected to see a picture of the recreated shroud. Instead the article shows a picture of the shroud of Turin. How can you print an article that says somebody recreated yet no pictures? You make an announcement but provide no high resolution pictures of your work.
Quote: terapinedWhere are the microscopic high resolution comparisons?
As far as I know no one can replicate U.S. currency to the degree necessary to fool experts in U.S. currency either. But I don't think it would be a big deal to show something can be done fairly close to original to prove it wasn't supernatural.
The guy claims the absent pigment could have disapeared. The oldest canvas paintings only go back a little before the Mona Lisa. So the idea that disapeared pigment could have left an impression on the cloth is not all that much of a stretch.
How would you duplicate things that may actually require certain effects of aging? You could only get close. But some unknown effects of aging is not particually amazing either.
Quote: rxwineAs far as I know no one can replicate U.S. currency to the degree necessary to fool experts in U.S. currency either. But I don't think it would be a big deal to show something can be done fairly close to original to prove it wasn't supernatural.
The guy claims the absent pigment could have disapeared. The oldest canvas paintings only go back a little before the Mona Lisa. So the idea that disapeared pigment could have left an impression on the cloth is not all that much of a stretch.
How would you duplicate things that may actually require certain effects of aging? You could only get close. But some unknown effects of aging is not particually amazing either.
Actually whats scary is that there is one major counterfiter that scares the secret service to death due to the incredible quality of their work. North Korea. Thats why our money has changed recently with more security measures. Their printed work was almost perfect.
Maybe the shroud is a fake. But its an incredible fake. Genius's exist in every age of history. Man can be incredibly brilliant. I figure that a genius created the shroud. Probabbly using techniques that continue to elude the smartest of us in this age.
