Atlantic City Say It's Increasing Comps
Quote: FatGeezushe was a former NY Knick who became NJ senator.
Actually the disgraceful Bradley turned himself into an out-and-out lobbyist for the N.B.A.
There seems to be no end to this fall. I would have thought by now at least things would have leveled off.
Next month there should be an additional drop because of the Aqueduct casino.
Table games hit record highs in PA at the PARX racino outside of Philadelphia, and the Sands Casino in Bethlehem PA for the month of October.
-B
Quote: toastcmuIt seems that Hard Rock wants to spend money on a boutique casino. Where is the revenue to support two more casinos
From the Seminoles.
"Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:05 pm
ATLANTIC CITY Breaking months of silence, Hard Rock Internationals chief executive officer gave the strongest sign yet that the company will build an Atlantic City casino featuring its signature rock-and-roll theme. Jim Allen told the New Jersey Casino Control Commission on Wednesday that Hard Rock plans to start construction on the first phase of the project by next July, with a grand opening in spring 2014.
In a related move, the commission boosted the project by approving Hard Rock for a pilot program that allows development of two new smaller-scale casinos on the Boardwalk. Hard Rocks project is the first of the so-called boutique casinos permitted by a new state law. The commission Wednesday extended the deadline for developers to submit applications for the second smaller-scale casino to April 30. . . .
Hard Rock would start by building a 200-room casino hotel in the first phase. A second phase would add a 650-room tower. Allen estimated the second part would start within two years of the first phases completion." acpress
Unfortunately, Atlantic City missed its chance. It had a huge market but it stayed as Casinos in an ancient resort city surrounded by expensive and dangerous parking lots and crack houses. New Jersey fought over State Revenue versus Local Spending. New Jersey lost. It couldn't change its geography and it would not change its infrastructure. Now there are huge markets in Pennsylvania and NYC and darn few gamblers from NYC see any need to trek to a has-been destination from the past. Why should they spend so much time to visit a museum that allows gambling when they can spend half that time and visit a modern day casino.
Loyalty? Men want a woman who is young and close at hand. Gamblers are pretty much the same way. And all gambling is local. Loyalty? When Vegas was the only place to go, gamblers were loyal to cheap shrimp cocktails and the mystique of Benny Binion's marketing genius, but ain't nobody gonna fly from NYC just to be near the ghost of Benny Binion.
You got slogans, memories and mystique in Vegas, you got someone claiming New and Improved Mousetrap amidst Atlantic City's Memories and Mystique and heck, you get a board walk thrown in too, but lets face it,,, that board walk is just about as gone as those low priced shrimp cocktails are.
I have an idea: Let us all meet and hoist a few in the memory of Benny Binion, cheap shrimp cocktails, REAL dice dealers who know that stacked dice ARE a roll, a neighborhood in Vegas that used to be called "naked city", etc. We will hold the meeting in Bethlehem... or perhaps at Aqueduct!
I suggest the casinos all truly LOOSEN UP their slots, then relentlessly advertise the fact.
If the average payback is now, say, 91%, they could increase it to maybe 97% or 98%.
Heck, they could even advertise that some machines (never identified) actally have a positive expectation.
That would differentiate them from the competition, and would give players an incentive to travel the extra distance.
Plus there is zero cost of capital investment.
Quote: toastcmuAC continues the freefall - ach (the casino, not the banking transaction) lays off 150 and says it's going to be a locals casino now.
ACH has 800 rooms right now. The old law says 500 rooms at a minimum, but the new law for boutique casinos says 200 rooms. What precisely does it mean to become a locals casino? Will they close hotel wings? Will they just stop advertising?
I'd love to know what the heck that means.Quote: toastcmuAC continues the freefall - ach (the casino, not the banking transaction) lays off 150 and says it's going to be a locals casino now.
I'm in Northern NJ, anout 120 miles from AC. My local TV comes from NYC. AC's local TV is from Philly. So I guess that means I'm not local.
Except for billboards on the last few miles of a trip to AC, I cen't remember EVER seeing advertising for AC Hilton. It's been a long time since I saw anything from Resorts, Tropica or Trump either....
Now that I think about it, nothing for the general area either.
Quote: MrVAtlantic City needs to do something drastic.
I took an impromptu trip of the PA casinos and Atlantic City on Tuesday/Wednesday, and I will be creating a blog post about my trip but in the meantime here are some random ramblings about my time in AC and how it relates to the posts.
To me, Atlantic City still has a mystique feel to it. It's not the same as Vegas, and it's a bit more spread out, but to a Midwest boy, the ocean and the Boardwalk and all the Monopoly street names is pretty awesome. I know it seems silly, but when you live far away from water, seeing it makes you really happy. Unfortunately, AC has really only focused on getting the Northeast customers instead of those who may enjoy it.
Getting to Atlantic City is a problem regardless of how you travel. By car, you have to take toll roads, which is never fun. Then if you need gas, it's full service, so I'm assuming you have to tip the person who helps there. Then you have all that parking you have to pay for. I'm a Diamond player, so I can park for free at all the Caesars properties. Of course, you get the transfer receipts, but when I went to Tropicana, they had $10 parking!!! By plane you're not much better off, as you'll have to taxi everywhere you go, but at least the fares are consistent.
I'm not sure about the comps, but the supervisor at Caesars said they don't write comps there; like most TR properties (Horseshoe excluded), it has to come out of your RC bank. It's a bit disappointing. I wasn't there for very long, so I didn't experience anywhere else. I did get my room comped at Showboat, but you have to pay the tax with cash, which obviously comes down from the state. I get wanting to make money in every possible way, but AC really nickels and dimes you where other places simply do not. No wonder people from NY and PA don't want to go out there anymore.
Quote: TiltpoulIf you need gas, it's full service, so I'm assuming you have to tip the person who helps there.
Nevahhh in a million years. Don't be a rube!
It's full service because the state is still locked into the notion that it's a dangerous procedure, best handled by someone experienced. While a gas station can get fined if you self-serve, most won't bother you if you want to pump yourself rather than wait.
On the flip side, because we have the refineries nearby, and low gas taxes, our gas prices are lower than in surrounding states.
Regarding AC Hilton, I never knew there was a casino in there until I read it on this forum.
I got a pair of free buffets from the pit boss after sitting at a table for about 6 hours, it didn't come out of my balance. That was about 4 years ago, though, and things change quickly.
Quote: DJTeddyBearI'd love to know what the heck that means.
I'm in Northern NJ, anout 120 miles from AC. My local TV comes from NYC. AC's local TV is from Philly. So I guess that means I'm not local..
DJ -
I caught an article off the press of AC site today regarding the locals aspect. It sounds like the ACH people envision them to operate like stations does in LV, catering mainly to the local crowd. It did state that they were going to emphasize slots and reduce the number of tables. Guess that's a good move of you're reducing staff.
Caesars was just in Baltimore this past week touting a site south of Ravens stadium - if it gets thru I think you'll lose the DC traffic to Ac as well. The drawings shown were for a 260k sf casino, with expansion room for tables if Md ever legalizes them.
I'm anxiously awaiting Tiltpoul's blog post as I may go to Chester for tiles instead of Atlantc City.
-B
Quote: toastcmuCaesars was just in Baltimore this past week touting a site south of Ravens stadium - if it gets thru I think you'll lose the DC traffic to Ac as well. The drawings shown were for a 260k sf casino, with expansion room for tables if Md ever legalizes them.
"The DC traffic" isn't making it past Perryville, Delaware and Pennsylvania.
Quote: toastcmuDJ -
I'm anxiously awaiting Tiltpoul's blog post as I may go to Chester for tiles instead of Atlantc City.
Yikes, the pressure is on... I was going to try to write it last night, but I was drained after driving and work, I could barely muster up enough for the post this morning.
I promise I will have it up by Sunday afternoon. If you have any specific questions before that, go ahead and message me.
Quote: SanchoPanza"The DC traffic" isn't making it past Perryville, Delaware and Pennsylvania.
It is for those who like to play Pai Gow Tiles. I can't get Charles Town to add it yet. ;)
-B
Quote: toastcmuIt is for those who like to play Pai Gow Tiles. I can't get Charles Town to add it yet. ;)
-B
West Virginia is very strict on what games can be at casinos... I would be shocked if they added tiles until they loosen the reins a bit.
Quote: SanchoPanza"The DC traffic" isn't making it past Perryville, Delaware and Pennsylvania.
If anything, it's not making it past Delaware or Charles Town. If you're from DC, Charles Town is an hour away, Dover Downs/Harrington is about 1hr 40min from what I hear. You might as well go to AC if you're bothering to go to the (Philly) PA casinos. It's only about another hour away. I doubt many DC'ers go to the Hollywood Casino near Harrisburg PA.
Once the Arundel and Baltimore casinos open, it'll slurp up all the DC traffic, especially if they allow tables. As I said before, I expect it to happen next fall for multiple reasons. And now that the MD casino operators have seen the high limits that Charles Town can continuously maintain on weekends, they really know how much they could rake in.
Interesting though, Penn National (they own the Perryville MD casino) yammered about wanting tables in MD. I'd think they'd be against it, like they've been against the Arundel casino. Charles Town is PN's cash cow, and it clearly stands to lose a lot if MD gets tables. Why drive an hour on a congested two lane highway to a casino with high limits and nothing around it, when you can gamble at (presumably) high limits with shopping and tons of restaurants on site at Arundel Mills?
If you live north of Newark, it's about even steven between Mohegan Sun and AC. NYC now has slots (Class 2 mind you). Pennyslvania has casinos; Maryland is getting them. So, the market for AC will consist of table players living Newark and southward, some people from New York City, but not much else.
So what happens to AC as gaming revenue continues to slide. A few casinos will have to close. I really wish New Jersey would just charge a few more cents a gallon for gas and funnel some money to the City. Build an amusement park there on the water similar to what the boardwalk has in Santa Cruz, california. Put in a first rate college there and make it a university town too. Maybe you move all of the casinos off the boardwalk, build smaller hotels, build the amusement park, open the area up to residential housing and put a college on the west edge of town where the trop is. Then you have folks learning and a young feel to a town, an amusement park to attract families, and the casinos on the north edge. The reason why AC is so derilect two blocks from the shores is because they've made the beach inaccessible to its residents, who have to walk through a casino to get there and inevitably the area close to the casino is populated by those servicing the casino (drugs, hookers, gambling addicts, pimps, loan sharks). So, get rid of some of the casinos and rebuild.
Think Seaside, Oregon.
Quote: boymimboIn the end, what happens to AC?
Put in a first rate college there and make it a university town too. Maybe you move all of the casinos off the boardwalk, build smaller hotels, build the amusement park, open the area up to residential housing and put a college on the west edge of town where the trop is.
Think Seaside, Oregon.
No shortage of ambition there. It's 17 miles to the local community college, let alone a first rate college. I think that the low road is more likely as more and more Atlantic City places concentrate on the bachelor party crowds, because they know that the state controlled casinos in PA won't compete on that level.
Quote: boymimboIn the end, what happens to AC?
If you live north of Newark, it's about even steven between Mohegan Sun and AC. NYC now has slots (Class 2 mind you). Pennyslvania has casinos; Maryland is getting them. So, the market for AC will consist of table players living Newark and southward, some people from New York City, but not much else.
So what happens to AC as gaming revenue continues to slide. A few casinos will have to close. I really wish New Jersey would just charge a few more cents a gallon for gas and funnel some money to the City. Build an amusement park there on the water similar to what the boardwalk has in Santa Cruz, california. Put in a first rate college there and make it a university town too. Maybe you move all of the casinos off the boardwalk, build smaller hotels, build the amusement park, open the area up to residential housing and put a college on the west edge of town where the trop is. Then you have folks learning and a young feel to a town, an amusement park to attract families, and the casinos on the north edge. The reason why AC is so derilect two blocks from the shores is because they've made the beach inaccessible to its residents, who have to walk through a casino to get there and inevitably the area close to the casino is populated by those servicing the casino (drugs, hookers, gambling addicts, pimps, loan sharks). So, get rid of some of the casinos and rebuild.
Think Seaside, Oregon.
Relocate a college there?.....Which one Princeton or Rutgers?
Residential housing?....Those ocean side houses would be a million plus.
Amusement park?.....There are already a couple of piers there with amusement rides.
Add a few more cents to a gallon of gas?.........Raising traveling expenses will only keep people away.
Move the casinos off the boardwalk and then build an amusement park by the water?....That needs explaining.
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My suggestions are:
FREE PARKING
LOWER TABLE MINIMUMS
SINGLE ZERO ROULETTE
BLACK JACK THAT PAYS 3/2
ELIMINATE THE PLAYERS CARDS FOR EACH CASINO AND CREATE ONE UNIVERSAL CARD SYSTEM THAT IS GOOD IN ALL CASINOS.
Quote: FatGeezus
My suggestions are:
FREE PARKING
Completely agree... this was really disturbing to me. There's no good reason to charge for parking at all.
Quote: FatGeezusLOWER TABLE MINIMUMS
SINGLE ZERO ROULETTE
BLACK JACK THAT PAYS 3/2
First off, other than a VERY few single deck games, all BJ pays 3:2, even in party pits. Borgata even S17. Single Zero Roulette is in the high limit rooms, but the 0/00 roulette is a better game on the outside because of NJ laws. Table Mins are only high on weekends, and even then, certain casinos still offer lower minimums. How much lower can it get than $1?!?
Quote: FatGeezusELIMINATE THE PLAYERS CARDS FOR EACH CASINO AND CREATE ONE UNIVERSAL CARD SYSTEM THAT IS GOOD IN ALL CASINOS.
I've never heard of a Socialist approach to casinos, but this outright is a terrible idea. Low rollers would get NOTHING, and with Harrah's/Caesars owning 4 casinos anyways, there is no lack of multi-casino player clubs options
actually, there is.Quote: TiltpoulCompletely agree... this was really disturbing to me. There's no good reason to charge for parking at all.
there isn't enough on-street parking for the residents. Let them park for free at the casinos, and there won't be any spaces left for gamblers.
Quote: boymimboThink Seaside, Oregon.
What does Seaside, Oregon have to do with Atlantic City?
Seaside has no casinos.
Seaside has no colleges.
Seaside has no slums.
It has not declined.
It is just a small town on the ocean, west of Portland.
What point were you trying to make here?
First off, it's not a Socialist approach to casinos. It is a UNIVERSAL card that can be used in any AC casino. This would encourage all gamblers to visit other casinos to earn reward credits. You could earn credits in one casino and cash them in at another. What's wrong with that idea?
The way things work now, you have to have a card for each corporate casino. Harrahs for it's 4 casinos. Trump for it's 2 casinos and one each for the remaining casinos.
Instead of having a $50 reward in 5 different corporate casinos, you could have $250 in your account to use in any or all of the AC casinos......Think about that.
I limit my gambling to craps, baccarat and some Pai Gow Poker.
I don't know about single zero roulette being in the High Limit rooms. If it is then they need to move it back again to the regular floor to attract more players. I know that I used to play single zero roulette a loooong time ago at Harrah's.
The only $1 limit that I know is BJ. AND THEY CHARGE YOU $.25. TO PLAY!!!
What are the other table games that have $1 minimums?
Quote: DJTeddyBearactually, there is.
there isn't enough on-street parking for the residents. Let them park for free at the casinos, and there won't be any spaces left for gamblers.
They could charge for parking when you leave. Let's say $10 a day. That's $300 a month. That might be a little high for the locals to pay.
However, if visitors played long enough at the slots or table game, WITH THEIR UNIVERSAL AC CARD, they could earn a voucher to pay for the parking.
Some casinos do this now with slots. You earn a voucher for free parking if you play enough.
Quote: DJTeddyBearactually, there is.
there isn't enough on-street parking for the residents. Let them park for free at the casinos, and there won't be any spaces left for gamblers.
The parking fee is mandated by the state of New Jersey at $3 a car. The casinos apparently can charge whatever they please. They can also waive the fee but they will still owe the state $3 per car.
My point is that Atlantic City can be transformed into a very nice beach getaway. The boardwalk can be transformed into an amusement area for all ages. Get ambitious and build a large amusement park that's better than Hershey Park or Kennywood. Leave the casinos on the north end of town where the Borgata is and perhaps leave the Tropicana on the western edge of the boardwalk. Tear down everything in between, clean up the boardwalk and add some low end hotels and condos. Put up some low rise hotels. Police the damned thing to make it safe. Make it the nice place to go for Philadelphians and DC residents who want to get away.
And yes, of course, get rid of the parking fee. The casinos of Niagara Falls (which is very close to a tourist attraction) make you pay for parking unless you use your player's card to enter and exit. You shouldn't have a problem with this. And of course make the games and slots more competitive. Put a good college in there so that its graduates stay in AC and make the town better overall.
You gotta differentiate. Casinos in AC can't compete with Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New York. So you gotta offer something better. Same old same old won't work there anymore. AC has the ocean and a very nice beach. It's easily accessible.
New Jersey adds 32.4 cents in taxes per gallon for gases (3rd lowest in the nation). New York charges 67.5 cents. Pennsylvania charges 50.7, and Delaware 41.4. 5 cents per gallon won't hurt anyone. It's the frickin stopping and stopping on the Garden State that's a pisser.
And why NJ has the law on the book to collect $3 for every car that parks on the casino lots is stupid.
Quote: FatGeezusTiltpoul -
First off, it's not a Socialist approach to casinos. It is a UNIVERSAL card that can be used in any AC casino. This would encourage all gamblers to visit other casinos to earn reward credits. You could earn credits in one casino and cash them in at another. What's wrong with that idea?
Instead of having a $50 reward in 5 different corporate casinos, you could have $250 in your account to use in any or all of the AC casinos......Think about that.
Thought about it... and as much as I like Caesars properties (mostly because they are convenient), their comp system is the absolute worst (with the exception of Horseshoe). They DO NOT COMP... you either earn the Reward Credits or you don't. You get multiplier days, but they rate table game players SUPER low, after an hour of Pai Gow at $25 a hand, how much do I get? 32 frickin cents. I know the hold is low on that game, but c'mon.
Why bring this up? Imagine 11 casinos all having to share comps. They would comp at an even LOWER rate, as ALL players would be funneled into the same system. Look at locked market casinos, i.e. Lawrenceburg IN Hollywood, which isn't even truly a locked market. Their comp system is ridiculous, and moving up in their players club is near impossible unless you play there all the time.
And how would the casinos divide the money? I play at Golden Nugget, they win my $200. I spend the comps earned there at Showboat. Showboat is out $20 and Golden Nugget wins $200. "But it would balance itself out in the long run..." Really? All casinos would go to super low cost cutting measures and food would be awful.
Quote: FatGeezusI don't know about single zero roulette being in the High Limit rooms. If it is then they need to move it back again to the regular floor to attract more players. I know that I used to play single zero roulette a loooong time ago at Harrah's.
If you play individual numbers, then yes that would help. But remember, the outside gets half back on a Green, so it's actually a LOWER house edge in roulette in NJ.
Quote: FatGeezusThe only $1 limit that I know is BJ. AND THEY CHARGE YOU $.25. TO PLAY!!!
What are the other table games that have $1 minimums?
Yes, BJ has the awful commission, but if you play $5, you don't have to pay the quarter. Trump Plaza and ACH have $3 craps with 10x odds all the time (according to the ads). Weekends command higher table mins no matter where you go, but these places have to offer lower ones to try to compete.
Couple that with a good airport, free parking, and demonstrably loose slots and you'd have the recipe for a winner.
The Old Dame was grand once; she can be again.
Last Sunday, I visited ShotBoat. Unless I'm mistaken, I had only been in AC twice all year prior to last week - one of those was a week-night hit-and-run, primarily to encourage a good rate at IP when I came to G2E.
When I arrived at ShowBoat Sunday, I checked the rewards kiosk. I received a $10 free bet. While that was nice, it was unexpected. I.E. It was not a comp that got me to go to AC.
I played craps for about 1/2 hour, losing $50. Then I played a $65 poker tourney. For the next 6 hours, I played poker. Then went home, $100 ahead.
I can't remember the last time I got mail from any Caesars property, although the wife gets plenty. Note that she plays slots, often playing $5 slots for part of the day. However, she was not with me on this trip.
I'm contemplating another trip soon, possibly a mid-week overnight. A few weeks ago, I could get Sun-Thur for free at ShowBoat or Ballys. Nominal rate elsewhere. When I checked again last week, the cheapest was $29.
I got an interesting off in today's mail.
$15 food coupon and $10 free bet, for each weekend, December and January. Also, inspired to check the website, I can get free rooms again at Ballys, Sun-Thur.
As a matter of fact, I can only remember being comped a Saturday night once in my life, and that was at Tuscany. They are harder to get than Bakken Shale oil!
(*edit: I also have one on offer at Caesars Windsor. Woot!)
Quote: FatGeezusSome casinos do this now with slots. You earn a voucher for free parking if you play enough.
Also with table games. And the residents who most likely would park in the casino garages would most likely enjoy premium status with free rights, anyway. At any rate, having more people in garage areas could help security. Couldn't hurt, right?
Quote: TiltpoulThought about it... and as much as I like Caesars properties (mostly because they are convenient), their comp system is the absolute worst (with the exception of Horseshoe). They DO NOT COMP... you either earn the Reward Credits or you don't. You get multiplier days, but they rate table game players SUPER low, after an hour of Pai Gow at $25 a hand, how much do I get? 32 frickin cents. I know the hold is low on that game, but c'mon.
Why bring this up? Imagine 11 casinos all having to share comps. They would comp at an even LOWER rate, as ALL players would be funneled into the same system. Look at locked market casinos, i.e. Lawrenceburg IN Hollywood, which isn't even truly a locked market. Their comp system is ridiculous, and moving up in their players club is near impossible unless you play there all the time.
And how would the casinos divide the money? I play at Golden Nugget, they win my $200. I spend the comps earned there at Showboat. Showboat is out $20 and Golden Nugget wins $200. "But it would balance itself out in the long run..." Really? All casinos would go to super low cost cutting measures and food would be awful.
If you play individual numbers, then yes that would help. But remember, the outside gets half back on a Green, so it's actually a LOWER house edge in roulette in NJ.
Yes, BJ has the awful commission, but if you play $5, you don't have to pay the quarter. Trump Plaza and ACH have $3 craps with 10x odds all the time (according to the ads). Weekends command higher table mins no matter where you go, but these places have to offer lower ones to try to compete.
Maybe I missed it but who said "But it would balance itself out in the long run..."? I know that I never said that. I only see you saying that. I only suggested a UNIVERSAL card to be used in AC. Let the casinos figure out how it will "balance it self out". I still would rather have all my comps in one account instead of spread out among a few casinos. You don't have to worry about having your comps spread out among a few casinos instead of one account, because that's the current situation.
Having all your comps in one account might ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS AND MORE REVENUE TO AC. Isn't that what we are talking about.
"but if you play $5, you don't have to pay the quarter."......I knew that, but remember you said that there is $1 blackjack. Now you're playing $5 dollars at a $1 table.
**************************
@boymimbo -
Which college should we put in there, Princeton, Rutgers, Columbia, Harvard, Yale, UCLA, Duke, Baylor, MIT?
Quote: FatGeezusMaybe I missed it but who said "But it would balance itself out in the long run..."? I know that I never said that. I only see you saying that. I only suggested a UNIVERSAL card to be used in AC. Let the casinos figure out how it will "balance it self out". I still would rather have all my comps in one account instead of spread out among a few casinos. You don't have to worry about having your comps spread out among a few casinos instead of one account, because that's the current situation.
Having all your comps in one account might ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS AND MORE REVENUE TO AC. Isn't that what we are talking about.
Actually, I know you didn't say the quoted comment, I was merely anticipating what you were going to say, and basically did in this comment. Shared comps won't bring new players to AC, but let's say they did. Are you suggesting that these companies dump their current programs and offer a new one or would this be a second card that they could have? You may actually have something if there was an "AC Card" you turned in with your players club card. This could accrue at a dreadfully low rate, but it would be on top of your casinos comp card so that would be fine. This could pay for parking, restaurants unaffiliated with the casinos and more.
However, if you suggest it would all be on one card from ESTABLISHED PROGRAMS the casinos have (i.e. Total Rewards) you are off your rocker. Caesars has no interest in the other casinos around it; they have 36 others across the country, so why would they care if Trump Taj survives. Borgata brings in WAY more revenue than ACH, so why should they have to honor their comps?
Quote: FatGeezus"but if you play $5, you don't have to pay the quarter."......I knew that, but remember you said that there is $1 blackjack. Now you're playing $5 dollars at a $1 table.
So what kind of table mins do you want? $3? $2? You're not finding those kinds of minimums anywhere except remote Indian casinos that are rural in Oklahoma. $5 is a reasonable amount.
Quote: TiltpoulActually, I know you didn't say the quoted comment, I was merely anticipating what you were going to say, and basically did in this comment. Shared comps won't bring new players to AC, but let's say they did. Are you suggesting that these companies dump their current programs and offer a new one or would this be a second card that they could have? You may actually have something if there was an "AC Card" you turned in with your players club card. This could accrue at a dreadfully low rate, but it would be on top of your casinos comp card so that would be fine. This could pay for parking, restaurants unaffiliated with the casinos and more.
However, if you suggest it would all be on one card from ESTABLISHED PROGRAMS the casinos have (i.e. Total Rewards) you are off your rocker. Caesars has no interest in the other casinos around it; they have 36 others across the country, so why would they care if Trump Taj survives. Borgata brings in WAY more revenue than ACH, so why should they have to honor their comps?
So what kind of table mins do you want? $3? $2? You're not finding those kinds of minimums anywhere except remote Indian casinos that are rural in Oklahoma. $5 is a reasonable amount.
I am suggesting a UNIVERSAL AC CARD to be used in all the casinos. The card would not be used for businesses not affiliated with the casinos.
You ask why Caesars and Borgata would want a UNIVERSAL AC CARD. The answer is very simple. If the revenue "pie" is only so big and there are 11 slices (casinos are slices), you always want a bigger slice of the "pie". You can increase the size of your slice by getting players to visit your casino. The Borgata might get ACH players who never played at the Borgata to visit and play there when they cashed in their UNIVERSAL AC CARD comps.
Did you ever see a restaurant or appliance store say that they will accept all competitors coupons. They do that so that can the revenue. A bigger slice of the pie.
As far as low table minimums go, $5 would be a good start. It's crazy for casinos to have $10 table games with no one playing and the dealers standing around doing nothing.
Quote: boymimboA decent state level college opening a campus down there. Centenary has a few campuses for example. My point is that college towns tend to bring in younger people and educated folks which can only be good for AC.
The only money college kids have is their parents money.
"younger people and educated folks can only be good for AC". If that were true, then one of the casinos would try to open up a casino in Princeton.
Quote: FatGeezusI am suggesting a UNIVERSAL AC CARD to be used in all the casinos. The card would not be used for businesses not affiliated with the casinos.
Did you ever see a restaurant or appliance store say that they will accept all competitors coupons. They do that so that can the revenue. A bigger slice of the pie.
Part of that also is because the markups are already ridiculous in those areas. The same could be said for casino food and rooms. A Universal card is actually a novel concept, but I have a hard time thinking that casinos would want to install systems to convert play. You couldn't have two slot card holders, you'd have to do it through the player's club, which would take their time when they will want to be helping their customers. It's a dicey issue with too much to overcome, but it's not a bad idea.
Quote: FatGeezusAs far as low table minimums go, $5 would be a good start. It's crazy for casinos to have $10 table games with no one playing and the dealers standing around doing nothing.
Other than the largest casinos, $5 mins seem to be easily found on weekdays. Resorts, Trump Taj even had $5 mins on BJ when I was there.
Yeah, but in that case, the business taking the competitor's coupon bears all the costs, except that the advertising to get the coupon out there.Quote: FatGeezusDid you ever see a restaurant or appliance store say that they will accept all competitors coupons. They do that so that can the revenue. A bigger slice of the pie.
The universal AC card sounds good, but only for the casino getting the new player. Do you really expect any casino to put money into a fund, knowing the money will be going to a different casino, along with one of your loyal customers?
Quote: DJTeddyBearYeah, but in that case, the business taking the competitor's coupon bears all the costs, except that the advertising to get the coupon out there.
The universal AC card sounds good, but only for the casino getting the new player. Do you really expect any casino to put money into a fund, knowing the money will be going to a different casino, along with one of your loyal customers?
Well stated... it's a great idea in theory, and if you think about it, that's why Caesars is so successful. They created a brand image (Total Rewards) and stretched it across nearly all their casinos (Horseshoe, Harrah's, Caesars, Showboat, etc.). They are even licensing casinos in Ohio that they won't directly own. This is very powerful stuff.
But much like you pointed out, casinos are reluctant to share their information with other companies. I agree Atlantic City needs to do SOMETHING different, and maybe this is something they could latch onto. But the only way I see it really working is if it's the local businesses that contribute the discounts/free goods. They could get a kickback from the casinos, who put a miniscule amount on the UNIVERSA/C card. For example, a player earns .001 in a "cashback" account which customers use at LOCAL participating businesses. This way, the casinos only are out a small amount, but it encourages local play and businesses wouldn't be competing with each other.
Nice idea except...
Local residents are already patronizing local business, and not traveling out of state to gamble.
Casinos have restaurants, shops and even hotels, not so much to create additional profit centers, but as a means of keeping people on the property, close to the casino floor. While everyone agrees that AC needs some type of shot in the arm, no casino wants to encourage people to drift away from the casino floor. I think they'd sooner agree to a system of shared comps. The customer may go to the competition, but the competition's customer may come to me. It's a wash, but at least the customer is still in SOMEBODY'S casino.
Then, to follow up on my post above, the only casino that wins will be the one that the customer prefers for whatever reason. And then you're back to the crappy casino putting money in the fund that the better casino will withdraw. Ain't happening.
If Boyd corporation won't give you credit at one of their casinos around the country for comps earned at Borgata (which they manage and own half of), then what are the odds of going in on a universal scheme?
The "Universal Card" won't work as stated. Period. Caesar's Total rewards system is geared towards getting people free nights fast with very little in the way of actual comps while MGM / Boyd's programs are geared toward the typical comp of free and immediate RFB based on play. Their programs are just very different.
What may work is something like an AC points converter which would convert your TR points / Boyd / MGM points into an AC card which you could use at participating retailers (something like points.com). You could then then convert your points to the AC card using kiosks at the AC casinos or you could do it online. The casinos would determine the rate at which you would trade points onto this card.
Quote: DJTeddyBearCashback to local businesses?
Nice idea except...
Local residents are already patronizing local business, and not traveling out of state to gamble.
Casinos have restaurants, shops and even hotels, not so much to create additional profit centers, but as a means of keeping people on the property, close to the casino floor. While everyone agrees that AC needs some type of shot in the arm, no casino wants to encourage people to drift away from the casino floor. I think they'd sooner agree to a system of shared comps. The customer may go to the competition, but the competition's customer may come to me. It's a wash, but at least the customer is still in SOMEBODY'S casino.
Then, to follow up on my post above, the only casino that wins will be the one that the customer prefers for whatever reason. And then you're back to the crappy casino putting money in the fund that the better casino will withdraw. Ain't happening.
By the way, if you follow my other posts, I argue that I don't think it would work. I thought that perhaps if FatGeezus who was convinced his idea was phenomenal was onto something that there might be to make it work. We'll have to see in the long run what will have to work.
The idea was that you bought a membership and it entitled you to discounts at the casino restaurants. It was good at participating casinos. I don't know what happened to it, but it was popular in the early days of AC. Maybe if it were still around, it could have developed into the UNIVERSAL AC CARD.
Comp offers that are good 24/7/(365?)
If I can gamble 24/7/365, why do my offers have to be restricted to certain times?
I receive offers all the time. The problem is that they are spread out over different days.
I have an offer (Bally's) for a free bet on Friday, another free bet on Saturday and still another free bet on Sunday. Do they really think that I am going to make three separate trips? I also have another offer for 2 free buffets (Caesars) or $20 in food credit to be used in one of their restaurants. This offer is good Mon to Thurs. That would be a fourth trip.
I once received an offer for a $50 match play. The problem was that it was on a Sunday, the same day as my 3 year old granddaughters birthday party. I could either go to AC and maybe win $50 or go to the party and see the smile on my granddaughters face when she opened her gifts. This was really an easy choice to make.
I wrote to Harrahs and explained why I wouldn't be going to AC. I suggested that they should think about making their offers available 24/7/365. Their response was that they offer many opportunities to me to visit AC, not just the one day.
Gambling addicts would skip their grandchildren's birthday party and go to the casino for the free $50.
Up to 5% of the general population are gambling addicts. Targeted right, the mailout or the website visit might entice a New Yorker to go south to AC instead of east to the Mohegan/Foxwoods megacasinos.
