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billryan
billryan
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Thanks for this post from:
DeMango
July 8th, 2021 at 8:17:50 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I kind of need a digital readout of how many chips I have in front of me, and how many I bet. I guess that's reserved for the dealer.

I complained to a craps table at my local casino that the table limits video screens were washed out and unreadable, at basically all tables everywhere. They pointed to one screen that was dark & out of order. The next time I came back to the casino, all the table limit signs were fixed and bold and readable.



Next time, complain about world peace.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
coachbelly
coachbelly
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July 8th, 2021 at 8:44:49 AM permalink
Quote: redietz

I don't quite grasp what is being claimed by MDawg and coach here.


To be clear, I make no claims other than I understand what MDawg has written on the subject.

I don't believe MDawg has made any claims, other than what he has written is what he was told at the table.

Below is a collection of quotes by MDawg from earlier in the thread.

The quotes are repetitive and consistent, that's what makes the information that he relayed easily understood.

Quote: MDawg

This is how it works at Resorts World Vegas. When chips are handed to you, according to the pit bosses, they contain a chip that then is set to record these chips as belonging to YOU and only YOU at the table. Supposedly if you hand the chips to another player at the table, the system alerts them and disallows it.

That is what the pit bosses claim that as chips are handed to you whether initially or during a payout, that they are electronically assigned to you. Supposedly that space where you are playing which has your player number on it, keeps track of every chip you win or lose.

When chips are issued to you pursuant to either cash buy in or drawing on your line, they are electronically assigned to you. Then as you win or lose at Baccarat, chips are electronically deducted from your bankroll or electronically added to your bankroll. At the end, the system knows (or is supposed to know) exactly what you bought in with and what you walk with, and your average bet.

As far as betting, at Baccarat, the computer system senses the value of the chips placed on the Bank or Player wager spots, and then tells the dealer exactly how much has been bet, and how much to pay out after each win. All bets, Bank, Player, and all side bets, are placed on a section of the table that corresponds to your "number" at the Baccarat table, so that the system is able to track your exact bets, winnings, and chips.

The system keeps track of every bet and calculates your average, The system also keeps track of the hours played. The intent is to make pit boss bet recording a thing of the past. During the period you are at the Baccarat table it isn't or rather shouldn't be hard for such a system to keep track of every chip you receive, win or lose. I don't think it's farfetched to assume that this is the case, as the pit bosses are not tracking the win/loss or average bet so something has to be doing it.

I think it would be fair to say that the electronic system does track all inflows and outflows of chips to an individual player while at the Baccarat table. I believe that once the player leaves the table, the RFID in the chips probably stops tracking.

MDawg
MDawg
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July 8th, 2021 at 8:58:59 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg


I believe that once the player leaves the table, the RFID in the chips probably stops tracking.


I also wrote this.

Quote: MDawg



When chips are handed to you, according to the pit bosses, they contain a chip that then is set to record these chips as belonging to YOU and only YOU at the table. Supposedly if you hand the chips to another player at the table, the system alerts them and disallows it. (The reason a casino would not want that happening is, say, so that two players using one bank roll could bet together to defeat the table max.)

However, I will say that what is said in theory and what happens in real practice, are often two different things, because a group of close friends of mine were playing at RW around the same time I was there, and one has a million dollar line and another friend of ours was a little short and he handed a stack of chips to that friend of ours who needed it one day, and then the next day our friend (who is a front money only player, not credit), had some more money wired in and had started winning again, and handed the stack of chips back to my friend Ė meaning, that the pit bosses didnít seem to care or just looked the other way when about fifty grand in chips was passed back and forth openly at the table, and no computer system started blaring any kind of red alert.

Another time, just to test the system, I walked away from the table with about 900 of my chips (one five hundred, four one hundreds), and cashed them at the cage even while I, at that moment, had a marker outstanding. Youíd think that if the system knew exactly whose chips those are, that the cage would know instantly that I had a marker out and not cash my chips.

I also asked a pit boss, who confirmed that those chips handed to me are also electronically assigned to ME, ďWhat if I LOSE the chips out there in the casino? will anyone other than me be able to cash them?Ē The response: ďIf you lose them out there, youíre on your own!Ē Ė meaning, no, the system isnít as advanced as all that!



The chip sensing system is buggy, and sometimes the dealer has to pick up your chips and put them back down on the table for the system to detect them properly. I overheard one pit boss telling a dealer not to pick up the chips and ask the players to do it themselves, because, as that pit boss put it, ďSome players donít like anyone to touch their chips.Ē (Superstition, I suppose, but also, whenever I saw dealers pick up and put chips down I didnít notice them clap their hands together and spread them either, to show that they didnít palm any.)

The auto payout system itself is buggy, and on more than one occasion it stated in error that a player had been under paid, or that the player had not paid at all on a hand where in fact the player had lost, but the computer system indicated that the player had won.

The circled video screen is what tells the dealers what we have bet, how much to pay out, and whether all payouts have been done correctly (and, as noted, is often in error and has to be over ridden manually just to allow players to move on to the next hand).

The system keeps track of every bet and calculates your average, although I noticed whenever I put down a very large bet that the pit boss typed something, so maybe that is some kind of manual override or double verification for average bet tracking. The system also keeps track of the hours played. The intent is to make pit boss bet recording a thing of the past. One one session I played the system had me down for about a 4000 average, and I felt that it was closer to 5000. The exact number of hours played was calculated correctly - at RW, at least for Baccarat, seems like they go by exact hours, not the "one hour per Baccarat shoe" that some casinos award.
At RW, there seems to be no option to cajole the pit boss into recording a higher average for you - it's all electronic.

At the end of the session, you may present your chips to the pit boss to pay off what you pulled (to pay off your fully electronic marker), but the system is buggy there, and on one occasion their system via their handheld device wouldnít allow the redemption and I had to go to the cage to handle redemption. Whether paid at the table or at the cage, that handheld device will print a paper receipt for you for REDEMPTION on request.

This is a REDEMPTION receipt they will print from the little handheld terminal, and give to you upon request.

(I found those three pennies when redeeming that particular marker, and cashing out winnings. I'm tellin' you, money just comes to me. 😂 And those pennies shore came in handy to hold down that receipt while taking the photo.)

On one occasion where I smashed them for a massive amount (I won every session but on one particular session I really killed them), I went to the cage to get a winnerís check and their system said that I had LOST. I laughed and said, ďI won over ______ how do you get from a win like THAT to a loss?Ē On that occasion the cage asked me where I had played, and again, I laughed, ďYour system is supposed to keep track of every penny we bet and yet it doesnít know where I played?Ē In that instance they had to walk to the pit and verify everything verbally, including the exact amount of win, before they would issue the winning check.


Bottom line - listen to someone who has been there, playing. Forget about anyone too lazy to get up off his behind and go down there and check it out firsthand. This sort of argument has come up before - and stems from people sitting at home unwilling or unable to check things out for themselves.

In this particular case, what the beyond-arms-reach-unwilling-or-unable-to-go-down-there individual and the one who has actually been there, have unearthed, do not necessarily even contradict, so what the hullabaloo is about, I can't understand.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
coachbelly
coachbelly
Joined: Oct 21, 2013
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July 8th, 2021 at 9:14:57 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

In this particular case, what the arms-reach-unwilling-or-unable-to-go-down-there individual and the one who has actually been there, have unearthed, do not necessarily even contradict, so what the hullabaloo is about, I can't understand.


I agree. The VP confirmed what you had reported earlier.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Per our VP of Casino Operations Rick Hutchins:

We are currently using them for accurate player ratings at the tables as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions. We have the ability to track to the player, but have not chosen to use that option at this time.


As far as we know, they discontinued using the "track to the player" feature after your play was completed, in consideration of the accuracy issues associated with your results.
MDawg
MDawg
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July 8th, 2021 at 9:18:55 AM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

I agree. The VP confirmed what you had reported earlier.


As far as we know, they discontinued using the "track to the player" feature after your play was completed, in consideration of the accuracy issues associated with your results.



Right. Or it might not be working properly.

Quote: MDawg


However, I will say that what is said in theory and what happens in real practice, are often two different things, because a group of close friends of mine were playing at RW around the same time I was there, and one has a million dollar line and another friend of ours was a little short and he handed a stack of chips to that friend of ours who needed it one day, and then the next day our friend (who is a front money only player, not credit), had some more money wired in and had started winning again, and handed the stack of chips back to my friend Ė meaning, that the pit bosses didnít seem to care or just looked the other way when about fifty grand in chips was passed back and forth openly at the table, and no computer system started blaring any kind of red alert.

Another time, just to test the system, I walked away from the table with about 900 of my chips (one five hundred, four one hundreds), and cashed them at the cage even while I, at that moment, had a marker outstanding. Youíd think that if the system knew exactly whose chips those are, that the cage would know instantly that I had a marker out and not cash my chips.


But in any case, what I observed and what I was told do not necessarily contradict what what emailed to AM. The system is obviously there and in place.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
DRich
DRich
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July 8th, 2021 at 9:22:12 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Fair. Iím inclined to think the pit boss was wrong based on my experience with pit bosses.



In my experience that statement would hold true the majority of the time.
Order from chaos
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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July 8th, 2021 at 9:44:40 AM permalink
Wells Fargo is shutting down all personal line of credit accounts
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/08/wells-fargo-is-shutting-down-all-personal-line-of-credit-accounts-.html

I don't know if this affects those of you running a gambling debt of some kind.
MDawg
MDawg
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July 8th, 2021 at 9:54:36 AM permalink
Interesting. Bank of America and Wells Fargo both have/had great personal and business credit lines. Wells Fargo is probably getting tired of lending unsecured money at low interest rates.

But, one should never gamble with borrowed money. Sure, markers at the casino are technically borrowed, but when I sign one I have 10X more if not 100X more available in the bank to cover it.

The people I feel sorry for are the ones standing at the cage doing a cash advance on a credit card. Withdrawing from a debit card, I suppose, no big deal, but a credit card - that's digging pretty deep.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
100xOdds
100xOdds
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July 8th, 2021 at 10:27:58 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

The people I feel sorry for are the ones standing at the cage doing a cash advance on a credit card.
Withdrawing from a debit card, I suppose, no big deal, but a credit card - that's digging pretty deep.

yeah, i've seen people withdraw from their debit card at the cage. (i was at the next cashier over.)
but there's an ATM at the end of the cage. (and multiple places in the casino.)

why not withdraw $ from the ATM with your debit card so people in line can cash out faster?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
coachbelly
coachbelly
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July 8th, 2021 at 10:30:45 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Fair. Iím inclined to think the pit boss was wrong based on my experience with pit bosses.


On the other hand, you're inclined to disregard the realtime explanation of casino floor personnel, who are right there in the pit, viewing the screen and using the software, in favor of a measured communication from the casino's PR Department.

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