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speedycrap
speedycrap
Joined: Oct 13, 2013
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July 8th, 2021 at 12:45:11 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Help me out guys. Say MDawg takes a $10k marker. He asks for 9 $1k chips, 9 $100chips, and the rest in $5ís to use as tips. He bets $400 on banker. House pays him $380 on his win. Are the $25 and $5 chips not RFID? Does the dealer place the entire $380 on some sort of scanner before he pushes it to MDawg?

MDawg hands his wife one of those $1k chips and tells her to have fun at the $25 6:5 BJ table in the main pit. Does the main pit not change the $1k chip for her?

Can you tip a smoky hot cocktail waitress with an RFID $100 chip? Will the pit go crazy when their tally doesnít add up?

I think Soopoo, you get the point. Assigning chips to a specific player is not feasible. Only roulette does it.
DRich
DRich
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July 8th, 2021 at 1:06:15 PM permalink
Quote: speedycrap

I think Soopoo, you get the point. Assigning chips to a specific player is not feasible. Only roulette does it.



It is probably feasible just not practical.
Order from chaos
Deucekies
Deucekies
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
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July 8th, 2021 at 1:46:24 PM permalink
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
MDawg
MDawg
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July 8th, 2021 at 2:06:26 PM permalink
Assigning chips to a player electronically while he is at the table is more than feasible.

I also don't see why it would not be feasible to assign chips electronically, period. I am sure that exceptions could be made for small denomination chips that a player handed out to others.

If you go to ANY casino cage with a 5000 or higher chip and many smaller casinos with a 1000 chip unless they determine how you got that chip it is not being cashed. The electronic assignment system would eliminate the need for all that research prior to cashing.

Why wouldn't all casinos want to go this way eventually, for all sorts of reasons, including that they will then be able to identify all players and boot anyone they don't want quickly. The downside would be loss of the small number of players who do not want to be entered into the system.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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July 8th, 2021 at 2:23:26 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Assigning chips to a player electronically while he is at the table is more than feasible.

I also don't see why it would not be feasible to assign chips electronically, period. I am sure that exceptions could be made for small denomination chips that a player handed out to others.

If you go to ANY casino cage with a 5000 or higher chip and many smaller casinos with a 1000 chip unless they determine how you got that chip it is not being cashed. The electronic assignment system would eliminate the need for all that research.



When RFID chips were first developed more than 15 years ago that was the goal: to trace all chips throughout the property, even knowing when chips left the casino floor.

The technology was never developed.

In fact, it was difficult to have RFID chips monitored at craps tables because there are no sensors to separate chips near each other in box numbers. There can be bets for as many as 16 players on the 8, for example.

RFID scanners never got beyond betting positions in games such as blackjack where there is one spot for bets to be placed for each player.

In certain factories there are RFID scanners that can read product chips on a production floor. But there are spacing requirements on certain table games.

I wish I had my news report videos on RFID but they weren't uploaded to YouTube by KCAL.

The bottom line is that all technology is possible but it requires money and in the case of RFID tracking there is also the requirement of spacing and manpower.

While scanners can read chips, someone has to link those scans to a player either by name or players card number.
MDawg
MDawg
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July 8th, 2021 at 2:28:55 PM permalink
Thanks for the background.

Resorts World might be the harbinger of things to come.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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July 8th, 2021 at 2:29:20 PM permalink
So not going to end up staying at Resort Worlds. But thereís a fair chance on Saturday Iíll swing by to check it out. If I do, Iíll try to ask about the chips and report back to help triangulate.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
MDawg
MDawg
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July 8th, 2021 at 2:32:59 PM permalink
RW has some things to iron out and will probably be a better experience by year's end. At some point too they will come off their high horse and probably lower prices across the board, and offer better take-out or room service food. The spa isn't even open until August 2021.

From what I understand the master plan at RW is for 10000 rooms.

P.S. If you go to RW casino let me know if that crazy guy betting 100K per table X 4 tables at a time is still playing. He has/had a reserved crystal box on the #1 I think it is/was spot on each table. All those hundreds of thousands in plastic lammers are/were there for him for his unending call bets.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
MDawg
MDawg
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Thanks for this post from:
unJonHD71
July 8th, 2021 at 10:30:34 PM permalink
All right gentlemen. Despite what was emailed to our stay-at-home investigative reporter, I have to report that Resorts World does appear to attach chips electronically to a specific player, when distributed pursuant to a buy in, marker disbursement, or win.

I went down there and played. I won, but that's somewhat besides the point. I drew a marker and while playing I grilled more than one pit boss, asking, "Are the chips really assigned to me?" Answer from all of them: YES. Second question, "What happens if I hand some of my chips to someone else, will the system allow it?" Answer from all of them: "Well, I'll allow it, but the system will let me know that you did it." Follow up third question, "So will those chips then show as belonging to that other player who handed them over? If so, for how long?" Answer: "Well, for a little while I guess. Until the system records those chips as now belonging to the receiving player."

FORGETTING about what any of them had to say, let's talk real world. Follow me closely. This isnít complicated if you know how markers and table games work. I pulled a marker, ten grand. When I decided to walk, I was ahead about twenty and had 32,000 in chips in front of me. The entire 32,000 was almost entirely 500 and 100 chips, plus two 1000 chips. (500s and 100s were the units I was betting and getting paid in - other than two times when the dealer gave me the two yellows via payouts that I later used for marker redemption - I wasn't betting that big, I was just winning most of my hands this session and as noted I received almost all payouts in 500s and 100s.)
So:
1) I pulled a 10K marker in all 500s and 100s
2) I ended with 32,000 in chips in front of me, almost all 500s and 100s, plus two 1000s

3) I paid off the marker with a stack of 500s I had plus two yellows - two 1000 chips. (Those two specific yellow chips which I used to pay the marker were chips I had WON, they were definitely not part of the marker pull, because as noted I drew my marker in all 500s and 100s, no 1000s at all.)

4) After marker redemption I had 22,000 remaining in front of me, all 500s and 100s.

5) After the marker redemption was completed, I then presented the 22,000 I was ahead to color up, and the dealer placed these on the electronic rectangle on the Baccarat table that records their amount. All good, it recorded 22,000. I saw the 22,000 on the screen. But when the dealer kept trying to color me up with four 5000 chips and two 1000 chips, it kept giving some kind of error, showing an uneven amount going out than in. Finally the pit boss figured out what was wrong - the system was still recording the two yellow 1000s I had paid in to pay off the marker as belonging to ME. Therefore, it was not allowing the dealer to pay me with my own chips, it was actually asking the dealer to add more chips to the payout to equal the 22,000 I was submitting for color up Ė it was demanding 24,000 in chips payout against my 22,000 submitted for color up.

Finally, the pit boss had the dealer change out the two yellows the dealer was trying to give me - put them back in the tray and hand me two fresh yellows that were other than the ones I had paid in for marker redemption, and then the system balanced out and showed that I was being changed out - colored up Ė correctly: 22K in, 22K out.

So, right there, is real world proof that the system not only attaches chips to a specific player, but even retains that tagging at least for a bit, even after the chips are returned to the tray. The system would not allow the dealer to color me up, change me up, with my own chips, because the system was still recording these as my own chips.

Now, after that incident I brought up the question again of, "So for how long will these chips [meaning the 22,000 I had just won that I was holding in my hand] be marked by your system as belonging to me?"

The answer: "I don't know. I guess for as long as you are here." [Meaning, I assume, until I cash, lose or exchange them.] Now, is this follow up absolutely true? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not. But based on what I saw personally today, the system does definitely tag chips that are in my possession as belonging to me, and their system, at least at the Baccarat table, retains that tagging information for at least a period of time.


As an aside, the dealer had to break up my monstrous stack of 500 and 100 chips into three piles, but the electronic system still recorded the 22,000 accurately as to incoming. This notwithstanding that the pit boss commented that if the stack of chips placed on for example a bet was too high, that the system might record it inaccurately, such as for purposes of bet tracking.


P.S. The crazy 100K x 4 player appears to have gone home.

P.P.S. Yet another example of where you need to GO DOWN THERE and do your own research which includes ACTUAL PLAY, versus thinking that you're receiving a correct answer as a result of an arm's length lazy email, or phone call.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jul 8, 2021
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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July 9th, 2021 at 12:20:18 AM permalink
It appears to me that your real world example only tells what happened at your table. Your chips were not tracked elsewhere.

July 7th, 2021 at 8:16:26 PM
I received a reply from the PR department at Resorts World about how RFID chips are used.

If necessary I will forward the email to the Wizard if there's any doubt about its authenticity.

Here's what it said:

Hi Alan,

Per our VP of Casino Operations Rick Hutchins:

We are currently using them for accurate player ratings at the tables as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions. We have the ability to track to the player, but have not chosen to use that option at this time.

Public Relations Department
PR@rwlasvegas.com

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