Another Tale of the Hustling Wars
At only 90 minutes away, it makes for a very easy-going trip and they co-incidentally have one of the best bus offers making seats on the bus very much in demand. For just a fifteen dollar bus ticket, patrons receive $45 in free-play. That's quite an advantage!
There is one more advantage for gamblers who are hustling and that is the $45 promotion is completely anonymous. Sands is the only casino to hand out bus free-play pre-loaded onto throw-away players cards which are handed out as patrons exit the bus, no ID is required to attain the cards. In fact, there is one patron who as of a year ago was actually under-age--at 20 years old, he would ride the bus, obtain the players card and then sell it for a premium, the going rate of $40 to a casino patron in the bus lobby as he was unable to enter the gaming floor where security would ID him.
Yes, the going rate for these anonymous cards is $40. Why so high? It's a sellers market. Buyers are desperate for just a five dollar advantage, which isn't too bad because these cards could be used at video blackjack and video poker. And besides, the sellers were spending as much as six hours travelling back and forth with the layover at the casino. Since they were doing the real work, the premium for the cards was high.
And, of course, there were some patrons who actually gambled the cards themselves.
So, just who was taking entire day long bus trips to obtain barely $25 profit? Well, the most suitable people for bus travelling day in and day out for little pay where no ID is required -- the homeless!
Good luck getting a seat on any Sands Casino bus out of Chinatown. Almost the entire bus population is comprised primarily of homeless people. They purchase advance tickets, sold on the bus the previous day so that they can hold their seat. Many of these homeless have been riding the same bus schedule in the same seat being served by the same host for years. And of course they don't restrict themselves to just one trip. Being homeless, they have nowhere to go at night either. So they take the morning bus, sell their free-play, return in the evening and after spending the money on dinner and whatever vices the Sands casino is financing, they hop on the evening bus for another go at it. For them, this is the only way they get a good nights sleep. You or I might find it difficult but a quiet bus, regardless of having to sleep in an upright seated position is better than the alternative--and they basically are getting paid to sleep on a bus!
So why would the Sands offer free-play from a bus program without tracking the players obtaining it? Your guess is as good as mine, but here is mine anyway. The Sands casino is just the first step in a major project of LV Sands Corp. The entire multi-platform project can be viewed in miniature relief inside the hotel main lobby. The casino was the first part. The adjoining hotel was the second part. The shopping mall came next and then the renovated steel mill that was turned into a museum. Over the next fifteen years more additions are to take place. SO what do you tell investors when you are trying to greenlight further financing for such a huge project? You fudge the numbers of gamblers arriving by making offers so good, you don't care who they are. Homeless? Long as heads are being counted, free-play cards being handed out who cares? Just bring them in like so much cattle.
A similar thing is done all the time with subscription magazines. Free monthly subscriptions are routinely offered, the cover price of the magazine foregone in order to boost circulation numbers so that advertising rates (where the real money is at) can be raised. It's not exactly artificial boosting--real heads and real people are being added.
The main point of all this is that the Sands Casino set up a situation where free-play abuse--the ability to obtain multiple offers in the same day from their bus program despite printed literature prohibiting it--was rampant and to a large extent seemingly condoned even if they wouldn't admit it if asked.
And what happens when you silently condone free-play abuse with a group of casino hustlers? You get their mental juices flowing as they attempt to figure out how they can milk those offers.
Which is precisely what occurred next in this tale of the hustling wars.
To be continued.
Quote: darkozChinatown in NYC serves as the hub of casino bussing of patrons to all the local parlors in the nearby environs. Here you can catch buses to Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun, Empire Casino, Resorts World, the AC casinos and, interestingly enough, the Sands Casino in Pa.
At only 90 minutes away, it makes for a very easy-going trip and they co-incidentally have one of the best bus offers making seats on the bus very much in demand. For just a fifteen dollar bus ticket, patrons receive $45 in free-play. That's quite an advantage!
There is one more advantage for gamblers who are hustling and that is the $45 promotion is completely anonymous. Sands is the only casino to hand out bus free-play pre-loaded onto throw-away players cards which are handed out as patrons exit the bus, no ID is required to attain the cards. In fact, there is one patron who as of a year ago was actually under-age--at 20 years old, he would ride the bus, obtain the players card and then sell it for a premium, the going rate of $40 to a casino patron in the bus lobby as he was unable to enter the gaming floor where security would ID him.
Yes, the going rate for these anonymous cards is $40. Why so high? It's a sellers market. Buyers are desperate for just a five dollar advantage, which isn't too bad because these cards could be used at video blackjack and video poker. And besides, the sellers were spending as much as six hours travelling back and forth with the layover at the casino. Since they were doing the real work, the premium for the cards was high.
And, of course, there were some patrons who actually gambled the cards themselves.
So, just who was taking entire day long bus trips to obtain barely $25 profit? Well, the most suitable people for bus travelling day in and day out for little pay where no ID is required -- the homeless!
Good luck getting a seat on any Sands Casino bus out of Chinatown. Almost the entire bus population is comprised primarily of homeless people. They purchase advance tickets, sold on the bus the previous day so that they can hold their seat. Many of these homeless have been riding the same bus schedule in the same seat being served by the same host for years. And of course they don't restrict themselves to just one trip. Being homeless, they have nowhere to go at night either. So they take the morning bus, sell their free-play, return in the evening and after spending the money on dinner and whatever vices the Sands casino is financing, they hop on the evening bus for another go at it. For them, this is the only way they get a good nights sleep. You or I might find it difficult but a quiet bus, regardless of having to sleep in an upright seated position is better than the alternative--and they basically are getting paid to sleep on a bus!
So why would the Sands offer free-play from a bus program without tracking the players obtaining it? Your guess is as good as mine, but here is mine anyway. The Sands casino is just the first step in a major project of LV Sands Corp. The entire multi-platform project can be viewed in miniature relief inside the hotel main lobby. The casino was the first part. The adjoining hotel was the second part. The shopping mall came next and then the renovated steel mill that was turned into a museum. Over the next fifteen years more additions are to take place. SO what do you tell investors when you are trying to greenlight further financing for such a huge project? You fudge the numbers of gamblers arriving by making offers so good, you don't care who they are. Homeless? Long as heads are being counted, free-play cards being handed out who cares? Just bring them in like so much cattle.
A similar thing is done all the time with subscription magazines. Free monthly subscriptions are routinely offered, the cover price of the magazine foregone in order to boost circulation numbers so that advertising rates (where the real money is at) can be raised. It's not exactly artificial boosting--real heads and real people are being added.
The main point of all this is that the Sands Casino set up a situation where free-play abuse--the ability to obtain multiple offers in the same day from their bus program despite printed literature prohibiting it--was rampant and to a large extent seemingly condoned even if they wouldn't admit it if asked.
And what happens when you silently condone free-play abuse with a group of casino hustlers? You get their mental juices flowing as they attempt to figure out how they can milk those offers.
Which is precisely what occurred next in this tale of the hustling wars.
To be continued.
Sands cut down that Chinatown bus bonus a few months back after major exposes in NYC newspapers. Maybe they have quietly brought them back?
It should be noted that you only got seats on those buses by paying a kickback to the tour coordinator. No kickback no seat.
Quote: randompersonI urge you some caution Darkoz that you don't get into any plays that are still profitable or make people think about how said plays might work. Imagine if those crazy card flippers with 700 cards really knew how to make money. They would destroy all your profitable plays. So far the hustling wars series is only talking about obvious plays but some of your other posts are touching on some subtle things that may create your own competition and mine.
Duly noted. Certainly not intending on exposing my main play. And hopefully not yours by accident. The main focus of the hustling wars series are plays that the casino became all too aware of already hence the "wars".
Quote: bobsimsSands cut down that Chinatown bus bonus a few months back after major exposes in NYC newspapers. Maybe they have quietly brought them back?
It should be noted that you only got seats on those buses by paying a kickback to the tour coordinator. No kickback no seat.
They never eliminated the bus bonus or its anonymity from NYC (more on that in the series). What they did do was eliminate Video Blackjack and Poker from accepting free-play so the cards became de-valued.
I heard (from a source that isn't completely 100%) that the casino was looking into legal action but their attorneys warned them there is nothing illegal about players selling their comps. I am certain these anonymous bus comps are to boost patronage figures for their investors so they won't want to get rid of them.
By Fall of 2012, one of the Sands bus patrons, (we'll call him Jimmy, that's not his real name) had already been a recognized regular rider for quite some time. Jimmy was of Latino ethnicity. Although, close to 100% of the Asian bus population is Asian, they don't discriminate and will sell tickets to whomever wishes to make a purchase as long as a seat is available.
On Jimmy's regular bus there were about six non-Asian regular riders!
One afternoon, Jimmy was bored. With nothing to do and an afternoon to kill while awaiting his return bus to New York, Jimmy decided he would hop on the local Bieber bus to Kutztown. After purchasing his round trip at the casino, he rode the hour-long trip to what he discovered was a quiet, quaint German town complete with old style movie theater, shops, candy store and old book-store. It was like stepping onto Main Street Americana from an earlier time period.
Happy with his excursion, he returned to the casino to catch his return bus to New York. On the Bieber bus with him were approximately half-a-dozen residents of Kutztown making their daily jaunt to the Sands. Jimmy was pleasantly surprised when he stepped off the bus with the other few passengers and was handed a pre-paid free-play card for $35.
While it wasn't as good as the $45 he received on the New York run, nonetheless, it was still an advantage deal. His round-trip to Kutztown was $15 so he had a $20 advantage on the free-play.
The next few days, Jimmy returned to Kutztown. After all, there was nothing better to do, he genuinely enjoyed walking around the location and he just added another bus bonus to his daily routine.
Eventually, Jimmy wanted some company, so he informed the five or six passengers on his bus who were not Asian of the perk and suggested they come along for the ride. There was nothing racist about his decision not to inform any of the Asian passengers on his bus. He simply was friends with the non-Asians. Many possible relationships he could have had with the other passengers were hampered by language barriers.
Jimmy and his half-dozen crew made the Kutztown run for a few weeks and then they too grew bored with seeing this quaint German town. They had explored everything of interest, including the open cemetery adjacent to the bus depot where you could see some of the first of the towns original residents in their resting places with dates from the early 1800's.
One of the group suggested taking the bus and getting off at Wescoville which was only 35 minutes from the casino instead of the hour-plus trip to Kutztown. Wescoville was literally an abandoned diner which was now used solely as a bus depot for Bieber. It was surrounded by highway, grass and hills. Not exactly a sight-seeing destination. But since the tickets to Wescoville were five dollars cheaper, they decided to take the chance. Upon their return, the group was pleasantly surprised to find they still qualified for the $35 bus bonus. Even better, if they timed it right, they could actually make two Wescoville runs in the same afternoon. Bieber had timed it so that when one bus was on its way to Kutztown, the bus heading towards the Sands was already en route. Basically, they passed each other on the highway. Not so if you went to Wescoville. You didn't even have that much time for your return layover. The return bus was just a short distance down the highway making its way to you.
So, now they had a nice hustle going on, maximizing their time. They could make up to four Sands bus comps per day. Take the New York Chinatown bus in the morning. during the layover, hop on Bieber to Wescoville. Return for the second comp, catch the next bus headed to Wescoville about an hour later and once again return for another comp. That last trip was indeed pushing it and if traffic delayed them in any way, they were sure to miss their return Chinatown bus but they took the gamble anyway. They could always pay extra in that scenario for a later Chinatown return bus if seats were available and since they always purchased their tickets in advance, they could call the host and explain they were stranded and not to sell their seat back in Chinatown on the night bus just a few hours away as they would be making the return visit.
Upon their return to NYC in the evening, they would once again hop on the Sands bus. Arriving for their fourth bus comp of the day around midnight, they would either sell all their cards or play them out for their daily profit.
Everything went very well for the group for several months. One day, however, in February of 2013, Jimmy was given a surprise by one of the Asian bus passengers whom he had been somewhat friendly with. This passenger had no language barrier. It was the Chinese New Year and in the spirit of the event, he brought Jimmy dinner that evening.
Over Dinner, the subject of casino hustling naturally came up and the discomfort of constantly riding a bus all day. The Asian asked if Jimmy was so uncomfortable, why was he spending more time riding a bus every day to Kutztown and Wescoville. The layover at the Sands was his time for stretching his poor, abused legs.
Jimmy replied by filling him in on the details of the additional bus bonus!
That night, he told his Bieber riding buddies about the exchange. They were shocked. "Why would you tell him that?"
"Well, the guy just took me to dinner. He's a good guy. I wasn't gonna be rude. What's the problem, anyway?"
The others just buried their heads in their hands. "Don't you know never to tell an Asian casino hustler about your hustle? They have a strange propensity for ruining hustles. They have no discretion. They will milk it to the bone."
Jimmy was off-put by the apparent racism and wholeheartedly disagreed with their assessment of the situation.
The next day, Jimmy and his friends hopped off the Chinatown bus, spent a few minutes going to the restroom in the casino before exiting to hop on the Bieber bus. Only problem was they were not going to get on the Bieber Bus that afternoon. Standing on line waiting for the bus were approximately 75 Asians from the Chinatown run.
Sure enough, when the Bieber bus arrived, all the seats were sold out!
Jimmy and his crew were not happy. Jimmy's crew was most definitely not happy with Jimmy.
Bieber actually was pleasantly surprised. Suddenly, their bus ridership had gone through the roof. They had been offering the Sands bus as a convenience to their regular Bieber patrons and had not been making too much money on the deal.
But there was someone who most definitely was not happy about the situation.
The Sands Casino.
To be continued.
Quote: darkoz
Jimmy was off-put by the apparent racism
Seriously? I'm speechless. Almost..
Exit hustlers stage right.
Within less than a week, Bieber had added a second bus to accommodate the overload of passengers. Jimmy and his crew were able to get seats now but even that blessing seemed to be shrinking. As each day passed, more and more of the seats on both busses were becoming packed.
Seated around the table in the Sands food court, they all lamented the terrible mistake Jimmy had made.
"They're gonna cancel the promotion at this rate!"
"Or possibly ban all the people taking the bus!"
Jimmy frowned. "I don't think they can ban you because you decided to take public transportation to sightsee in another city. I mean, they're handing out anonymous free-play, they can't say who was there earlier and they're shoving it into everyone's hands. Even a legit gambler is not going to hop off the bus with the casino package he purchased and hand the free-play back saying, "Oh, I don't qualify. I was here earlier in the day. Don't give it to me!"
"Well, they are going to do something. They might start ID'ing. What if they demand ID off the Chinatown buses? A whole bunch of homeless people are going to be sleeping in the streets. I think they will at least make a restriction that only people who live in Kutztown are eligible for the promotion."
"Well, they don't have that rule yet. And anyway, who are they to say who lives there and who doesn't," Jimmy countered.
"Have you seen the residents of Kutztown? It's a small Pennsylvania Dutch-German town. There's nothing but white people walking around. It was a stretch when six black and Latino guys were getting off the bus but 150 motherfucking Chinese? From Kutztown?"
Everyone shook there heads in disappointed agreement. There was no way the Sands was gonna believe that one.
Indeed, the Sands was getting quite pissed. Everyday, more and more Asian bus riders were joining the fray. First thing was to stem the rising tide. The Sands contacted Bieber and instructed them not to sell any tickets whatsoever from the casino itself. From now on, a passenger boarding at the Sands must have his ticket in hand already. Since there were no Bieber outlets to buy tickets anywhere in the near environs, this meant if you didn't already have a ticket purchased from the Kutztown or Wescoville stations, you could not board the bus.
This simple tactic seemed to have some small affect on the numbers of passengers. Suddenly, the second bus was not so packed anymore. However, most of the Asian riders were used to purchasing advance tickets on the regular Chinatown run. It was how they were trained to maintain their seats and several of the passengers had already purchased multiple tickets for the future. These people were still able to ride the return bus to Wescoville where they purchased new tickets in a constant merry-go-round of business.
To the consternation of the Sands, the bus ridership began to climb again after only a day or two. Within a week, Bieber had added a third bus as more and more people were taking the excursion. What the hell was happening?
Sands called Bieber to discuss the protocol for selling tickets. Apparently, all Bieber bus tickets are dated for an expiration one year later. There is nothing wrong with purchasing multiple tickets for the future. What the innovative hustlers were doing was purchasing multiple tickets for their hustling friends and family back at the casino. So each day, more and more advance tickets were being distributed to hustlers intent on joining the action.
The next demand the Sands made on Bieber was to eliminate any multiple ticket sales. Only one ticket could be purchased by a customer at a time.
Thankfully, this seemed to put a halt to the growth factor. Still, three buses were pulling into the Sands on two daily trips. With so many people getting off the busses, the greeters were having a difficult time catching up. Asking for ID from hundreds of debarking passengers wasn't going to work. And as Jimmy and his crew had rationalized, there was nothing intrinsically wrong with taking public transportation and returning to the casino.
The Sands next move was intended to stem the multiple round trips. They informed Bieber that effective immediately, the bus bonus package would only be valid from Kutztown--a full 45 minutes further than the Wescoville stop. This meant there was no way for passengers to return twice on Bieber as one bus, on its way towards Kutztown would pass the second bus already on its casino run.
You could still purchase the cheaper Wescoville ticket but you would not qualify for the bus bonus.
Immediately, the first bus from Kutzown had less passengers. It was now only the second bus that was arriving packed with hustlers. Although still not happy, the Sands was beginning to breathe a collective sigh of relief. They just needed to eliminate whatever rule they could to stop the passengers who were clearly from NYC hopping on the Bieber bus.
But these passengers were born hustlers. The Sands was shocked when within the week, the first bus, once again, was packed with Asians debarking from Kutztown. The Sands again called Bieber.
"Are you selling tickets to all these people on both busses?"
"Sure am. The lines here are crazy. My life used to be real easy. I could hop on the internet or read a book, selling one or two tickets an hour. Now I get no rest. People are blocking the driveways, even."
The Sands was stumped. They were certain, the same people were making these multiple trips but it was physically impossible for them to be taking the Bieber bus both directions.
Watching them debark, the Sands noticed the hustlers were all doing the polar opposite of all the regular customers. While most people would make a left turn off the bus to enter the casino, these people were all making a right turn and walking off the property.
Frustrated, Sands sent plainclothes security officers to follow the mass exodus. They stalked quietly behind as the group of a hundred and fifty plus passengers left the casino grounds, crossed over the adjacent bridge and trudged up the hill on the other side. Once arriving at the top of the hill, security saw a virtual flotilla of personal SUV's and mini-vans picking up the hustlers. But there wasn't enough of these cars to pick up everyone. They had the help, of all things, of an Asian casino bus waiting for them!
It was clear what was happening. Not waiting for the scheduled bus to Kutztown to arrive, they were being ferried to Kutztown for a small fee in order to make the first bus, then were being picked up and ferried back for the second bus.
Sands contacted the Asian bus company who were as shocked to hear about this as they were. There certainly was no sanctioned bus run from the Sands casino in Bethlehem to Kutztown.
Now, the Sands had the smoking gun they needed.
On a day in late March of 2013, as the first Bieber bus arrived with every seat filled with hustlers, they were shocked to see in the bus depot a group of security officers from the Sands accompanied by Pennsylvania State Troopers whose cars were parked nearby. When the bus door opened up, the greeter informed everyone they needed to have their ID's out and at the ready.
As each and every person disembarked, the greeter verified the state origination of their ID. Passengers with Pennsylvania ID's were handed their bus bonus and given a warm welcome and a good luck greeting. Those whose ID were from New York were instructed to line up against the wall with no bonus.
Pretty soon, there were over a hundred people lined up against the wall. It was like a scene from a gangland movie or a mafia picture. Once everyone was lined up, casino security with State troopers right behind wrote down everyone's name from their ID, filled in the one or two blanks in pre-filled Banishment documents and handed these hustlers their 86'd walking papers.
The rest of the hustling community watched with stunned eyes from the bus lobby which conveniently has glass doors and windows enabling a spectacular view of the proceedings.
Only one single bus was required for the number of passengers that arrived from Kutztown the next day. Approximately six passengers got off the bus in total. All of them had Pennsylvania ID's.
Thus ends Another Tale of the Hustling Wars.
It is one Sands promotion that got out off hand. Any casino should have been alert when a promotion get out of hand.
What I don't understand is why the State Troopers are involved. Getting 86'd is a private matter and not a criminal offence. So what right has the State Trooper got to play a role here. Could you or somebody explain this.
So shall we say your hustling days are over.
With competition amongst the casinos in the NE so cut throat and many not doing well maybe you will find some other promotions that has loop holes in it.
Approximately two weeks after the events had come to a head, I started taking the Sands bus from Chinatown. The events were still being talked about. I decided to make my way to Kutztown (being white I could pass for German and I had an ace in the hole - a California ID that was still valid so if questioned I was just an out-of-towner visiting relatives in Kutztown.)
At the Kutztown bus depot I heard the events from their angle and everything was eerily similar, almost to the point where it seemed rehearsed. Rarely do events match so much when hearing it from different people. I've related everything as it was told to me.
I heard the State Troopers were involved for a number of reason but only the Sands can really answer that.
Some of the reasons I heard:
1) the Asian bus taking passengers to Kutztown made this a criminal act. The bus was company property and the driver was using it without their knowledge for these activities and receiving financial remuneration.
2) The Sands wanted to intimidate the passengers and other hustlers by letting them see the law was involved.
3) Sands wanted to have crowd control because they knew how many people they were going to be dealing with.
4) Sands wanted to protect themselves against accusations of false imprisonment and later lawsuits by having law enforcement oversee the bannings.
5) possibly all or some of the above.
Quote: darkozFirst my hustling days are not over and the Sands hustle as related above was not mine. I was not even witness to it.
Approximately two weeks after the events had come to a head, I started taking the Sands bus from Chinatown. The events were still being talked about. I decided to make my way to Kutztown (being white I could pass for German and I had an ace in the hole - a California ID that was still valid so if questioned I was just an out-of-towner visiting relatives in Kutztown.)
At the Kutztown bus depot I heard the events from their angle and everything was eerily similar, almost to the point where it seemed rehearsed. Rarely do events match so much when hearing it from different people. I've related everything as it was told to me.
I heard the State Troopers were involved for a number of reason but only the Sands can really answer that.
Some of the reasons I heard:
1) the Asian bus taking passengers to Kutztown made this a criminal act. The bus was company property and the driver was using it without their knowledge for these activities and receiving financial remuneration.
2) The Sands wanted to intimidate the passengers and other hustlers by letting them see the law was involved.
3) Sands wanted to have crowd control because they knew how many people they were going to be dealing with.
4) Sands wanted to protect themselves against accusations of false imprisonment and later lawsuits by having law enforcement oversee the bannings.
5) possibly all or some of the above.
None of the 5 reasons you mentioned don't make legal sense.
Quote: Deck007None of the 5 reasons you mentioned don't make legal sense.
Since you've used a double negative I hesitantly agree with you, lol.
Quote: darkozI heard the State Troopers were involved for a number of reason but only the Sands can really answer that.
At least around here, from what I've heard, you can request that a law enforcement officer be sent as a "keeper of the peace".
It's not that anything illegal has happened, but if you believe that a situation might escalate unpleasantly, having a LEO present as an obvious observer can counteract that tendency to escalate unpleasantly.
Asian hustlers>regular hustlers. New York Asians=>the best hustlers.
Play your free play, then take a magnet and demagnetize it, then take it to the player's club desk and say it doesn't work. When they try to swipe it, it really won't work since you messed with it.
This is assuming they don't bother printing a unique serial # on each card that they can use to track em.
Quote: sc15If they're giving you disposable players cards preloaded with free play, here's an idea for a scam:
Play your free play, then take a magnet and demagnetize it, then take it to the player's club desk and say it doesn't work. When they try to swipe it, it really won't work since you messed with it.
This is assuming they don't bother printing a unique serial # on each card that they can use to track em.
That is most definitely what they do.
One person was caught with multiple free-plays when they tracked him.
I was informed of the scam from someone else so the details aren't 100% for me but they went something like this.
The person was obtaining over a hundred of the free-plays by filling the bus with homeless passengers on his payroll. Not sure how it worked but homeless will sometimes work for pennies especially if they aren't completely savvy as to the hustle or they have no ID to get into the casino and are young looking.
At any rate, they busted this guy when he played ALL 100 cards at the same machine all the time. They got suspicious when the tracking numbers from the free-play went up numerically on an almost daily basis.
He probably had a machine whose payout was good enough he didn't want to spread the action on his razor-thin edge but he got banned for certain.
Quote: sc15If they're giving you disposable players cards preloaded with free play, here's an idea for a scam:
Play your free play, then take a magnet and demagnetize it, then take it to the player's club desk and say it doesn't work. When they try to swipe it, it really won't work since you messed with it.
This is assuming they don't bother printing a unique serial # on each card that they can use to track em.
This is also one of the main reasons I believe the casino is using the anonymous free-play to convince their investors they have full bus-loads of people. The tracking numbers prove the free-play was handed out. But that is just a theory on my part.
http://articles.mcall.com/2014-03-30/business/mc-sands-bethlehem-bus-asian-20140330_1_casino-bus-sands-bethlehem-bus-shelter
http://articles.mcall.com/2014-03-29/news/mc-sands-bethlehem-asian-bus-20140329_1_casino-bus-sands-bethlehem-sands-casino
Quote: bobsims$40 for $15 is just absurd. Mohegan Sun does it much smarter. For $25 they give you $20 in free play plus $15 in food credit. So the ride is still "better than free" for the player but since there is little (really none) market in reselling food credits there is no hustling...at least as far as I see. Just cheap f**** like me!
If that is what they give they changed it up. At the time the article took place, 2012-2013, Mohegan Sun gave $60 in matchplay for $18 ticket plus new members showing another casino card got $100 in freeplay.
I ap'd the crap out of that one.
Motor City in Detroit was doing $30 for $15 for a long time with frequent rider bonuses and free buffets. It was a fun AP for a while. I would take the bus up there on Fridays, walk to Symphony Hall, see the Detroit Symphony, and then walk back and catch the bus back :)Quote: darkozIf that is what they give they changed it up. At the time the article took place, 2012-2013, Mohegan Sun gave $60 in matchplay for $18 ticket plus new members showing another casino card got $100 in freeplay.
I ap'd the crap out of that one.
There was even a Chinatown bus that made 3 trips in one day (7AM, 3PM, 11PM). And 60 dedicated riders who rode that bus for 6 months straight.
Back in 2010, the free play amount was $30. I bought the cards for $27 (and later $28). Riders also received a $5 food coupon per trip. Those sold for between $1 and $2. The bus fare was $13 + $2 tip. You do the math on how much a rider could make per day.
I ran 99% of the cards I bought through the ShuffleMaster Royal Match blackjack machine (H17 LS DA2 DAS 8D), the other 1% through a 8/5 Quick Quads Bonus Poker machine (99.55%). The reason being: you don't want 100 Chinese men and women gathered around an isolated VP machine right in front of the security podium, but the blackjack machines accommodated 5 people, the other 4 being non-Asian ploppies.
I had competition from one Hokkien lady and a Cantonese man. Problem is, they couldn't stay away from the baccarat tables after the night shift.
Good times. Even made a small fortune (low/mid 5-figures) before a rogue bus driver decided to do something disgusting on casino property. Mr. Ho's contract was not renewed for 2011 after the incident.
This is when today's companies (Lucky 9, Baccarat 88, etc.) started their daily line runs to Sands.
Quote: phendricks
Good times. Even made a small fortune (low/mid 5-figures) before a rogue bus driver decided to do something disgusting on casino property. Mr. Ho's contract was not renewed for 2011 after the incident.
This is when today's companies (Lucky 9, Baccarat 88, etc.) started their daily line runs to Sands.
Interesting. Could you elaborate what was the disgusting thing the driver did that caused the loss of a casino contract?
You were one of the first buyers and you paid $27? That's horrible, you should have gotten them for much less.Quote: phendricksI was one of the first buyers of Sands Bethlehem free play cards way back in July of 2010, when table games were first introduced. Back then, one company, Mr. Ho's Travel Agency, controlled all the casino buses in Chinatown (Division St), Flushing (Main St), and Brooklyn (8th Ave).
There was even a Chinatown bus that made 3 trips in one day (7AM, 3PM, 11PM). And 60 dedicated riders who rode that bus for 6 months straight.
Back in 2010, the free play amount was $30. I bought the cards for $27 (and later $28). Riders also received a $5 food coupon per trip. Those sold for between $1 and $2. The bus fare was $13 + $2 tip. You do the math on how much a rider could make per day.
I ran 99% of the cards I bought through the ShuffleMaster Royal Match blackjack machine (H17 LS DA2 DAS 8D), the other 1% through a 8/5 Quick Quads Bonus Poker machine (99.55%). The reason being: you don't want 100 Chinese men and women gathered around an isolated VP machine right in front of the security podium, but the blackjack machines accommodated 5 people, the other 4 being non-Asian ploppies.
I had competition from one Hokkien lady and a Cantonese man. Problem is, they couldn't stay away from the baccarat tables after the night shift.
Good times. Even made a small fortune (low/mid 5-figures) before a rogue bus driver decided to do something disgusting on casino property. Mr. Ho's contract was not renewed for 2011 after the incident.
This is when today's companies (Lucky 9, Baccarat 88, etc.) started their daily line runs to Sands.
darkoz, a driver was bitter about being paid late/stiffed by Mr. Ho, so he emptied the bus septic tank in the arrival area at Sands.
Quote: phendricksAlexWolf, couldn't do that. There was already a market at $25-26 and I don't speak Cantonese or Fujianese.
So you paid $2.50 per card? How many were you able to do a day? 100?
Quote: FroggerSo you paid $2.50 per card? How many were you able to do a day? 100?
As I said in the article, the Sands deal is a Sellers' Market. The people riding the bus are homeless, but also gambling savvy for the most part. They understand the value of the free-play and many have gambling habits. If anything, they prefer not to play themselves because after winning their money they end up gambling it all back.
However, they won't sell for anything but a high premium since they know they can just turn it over themselves. They're just looking for the guaranteed profit of selling to someone else.
He made (not paid )approximately $2.50 a card.Quote: FroggerSo you paid $2.50 per card? How many were you able to do a day? 100?
Quote: teddysGreat story. The resourcefulness of the hustlers amazes me.
Asian hustlers>regular hustlers. New York Asians=>the best hustlers.
Asian hustlers were a force to be reckoned with in the heyday of accumulator slots. They monopolized entire locations like Foxwoods, MGM in Vegas, Harrah's Joliet, Motor City in Detroit. I got to be friends with one at Motor City. He told me a little bit about how they operate. They were well networked. If one guy got banned from one joint and another guy got banned from another joint they just traded places. There have been cases where they walked off from W-2G jackpots because none of them were legal in America. Working the accumulator slots was a great way for them to make a living and fly under the radar in this country.
Quote: FroggerSo you paid $2.50 per card? How many were you able to do a day? 100?
Right, about $2.50 profit per card (house edge on that game was 0.62%). How many cards a day? A good amount. Plus about $160 in weekly mailers as well (Sands used to give points on free play, now I can't think of a single casino in the East Coast that does).
Being able to speak fluent English was a huge plus, because I got along with the Director of Security very well, and he didn't bother me when I loaded up the machine with big amounts of free play.
The best part was that the ploppies understood that in Pennsylvania casinos, everyone has their own 8 deck shoe in virtual blackjack, so nobody can "take the dealer's bust card". Made doubling a soft 19 more comforting.
Quote: AxelWolfHe made (not paid )approximately $2.50 a card.
Right .... stupid typo!
Quote: mickeycrimm... There have been cases where they walked off from W-2G jackpots because none of them were legal in America...
A story out of Sands Bethlehem from my last trip - there's a guy walking around with 700k in chips won after an insane run at baccarat that couldn't cash out...
one question... is it possible that the Sands is cooking the books by deducting the $45 free plays as comps and getting reimbursed from the state's cut of the slot play revenue? I can't see these blood-sucking casinos allowing this to go on unless there is money to be made.
Quote: SimpleHustleGreat read and fascinating to say the least.
one question... is it possible that the Sands is cooking the books by deducting the $45 free plays as comps and getting reimbursed from the state's cut of the slot play revenue? I can't see these blood-sucking casinos allowing this to go on unless there is money to be made.
Now there's a question. I suspect, I always suspect, there's more to a topic than meets the casual eye. Good rule of thumb 'follow the money'.
I'm the Ron in these articles.
your fairly factual in your post, but I'll fill in around.
being a fugitive of the law i needed to survive and make money. I would ride the bus from kutztown 3 times a day.. $15 bus ticket, $30 bus bonus and $5 food voucher..i played the bonuses on vp and could net about $40 a day, fed myself with the three food vouchers.
Ran into 3 other riders who figured out a way to do 4 runs a day using another bieber stop in quakertown. Bieber runs a back and forth run to Philadelphia that runs through the sands then hits quakertown. Ticket $10, same bonus. We would come in on the first bus from quakertown, get the bonus then immediately get back on the bus and go to kutztown. Yes, right in front of thier faces, we got right back on the bus. Then do 2 kutztown runs back to back. Then do the off and right back on to get to quakertown for the last run. The sands then caught on and they eliminated the one bus back to kutztown, they would drop passengers at sands, but wouldn't pick up. That screwed us out of 4 runs a day. Then out of the blue, another local rider, like me, approached me about using his car to transport back and forth to quakertown. Great, but the logistics if we wanted to get 4 runs in required a second vehicle..a day later we're sitting at the quakertown stop and a guy that looked like the pillsbury doughboy wobbled up and said, hey guys, i have a van. My eyes lit up, i looked at the van and looked back at him and said this is how we do it. We charged $5 a ride to the other gypsies. Giving the rides became profitable and that's where i screwed up, yep i got greedy, started taking chinese, much to the disdain of the non chinese riders. I'll never forget the day my partner said on the way, what's the count, i counted 13 people in the van. When we arrived at the quik mart in quakertown where you purchased the tickets, i said oh there are some all the way in the back, he opened the hatch and 3 chinese fell out half dead, it was a hot day. We did this for almost a month. Yes, i literally got off the bus from quakertown 4 times a day and collected a bus bonus, on a good day me and my partner good net $100, we would call it a benny day. But then the chinese ruined it, they bought vehicles down from new york and started driving their own. Considering that quakertown might have a total population of 10 chinese, the sands caught on real quickly. Within a week the sands stopped the bus bonus from quakertown. That's when we went into the next phase which the article i left the link to refers. But there was a catch, non chinese had a lot of difficulty getting on the chinese buses from nyc. So i decided to learn some flirting chinese phrases to lay on the attreactive female bus hosts. Worked, in no time i was able to lock down regular seats from flushing.when we arrived on the first bus from flushing we would collect the bonus and immediately get in line to run to kutztown. But it got to the point where 1/3 of our bus was going to kutztown and it started to look ugly. At this time i had saved enough money to start buying bonuses, but only from non chinese, i was ethical to not cut into the chinese market. I would buy close to $3,000 worth of bus bonuses a day at around 89% and play them off on video poker, playing jacks or better because i couldn't risk the variance of bonus or double bonus poker. By this time the sands had eliminated the $5 food voucher and you got $5 extra in the bonus (they did this because what i called the redlight district for food vouchers grew inside the sands, 20-30 chinese ladies hawking $5 food vouchers) so i think i paid $40 for $45 from nyc and $30 for the $35 from kutztown. But of course the chinese being the greedy bastards they are were pissed that i stole the non chinese market and actually had people follow me around the casino and watch me play off the cards. But soon the party ended. I think the chinese had me snuffed. There are several theories as to what finally brought ron down. But the day they pinched me, they had several security outside, and let every other bonus rider pass and singled me out. I walked off the property that day( yes when they evicted me they walked me to the bus lobby to make sure i got on a bus to nyc, i veered right and they said once you walk off the property you can't come back, to which i responded i live 10 minutes from here) laughing at the past 8 months, how the hell did i get away with it for so long.eventually they got everybody and unless there is a new breed nobody makes the trip to kutztown anymore. They really laid the hammer down and a lot of the non chinese bonus abusers were evicted from the property. Most of them ran to ac for the greyhound bonus scandal which eventually got busted (a guy printed bonus tickets and people would jump in line like they just got off the bus and get the bonus, on a good day they could get 8 or 9 off a day and make a buck and a half)
there is so much more to the partner was evicted from the sands about 2 months later, he had cut back on the bus runs but eventually they nabbed him.
i ended up getting picked up on my parole violation fugitive warrant.
how the article in the local newspaper came about was the reporter who covered the sands had got wind of the bonus riding, he went to the sands and a couple of gypsies referred him to my partner, he started the story, actually doing a nyc bus run. Told my partner he needed to talk to me, but i was in jail, within a few days after i got out of jail, i contacted him, we met for breakfast and the article was published a few days later.
i stayed a gypsy after i got out of jail and about a year ago completed a legendary LEGAL casino hustle that netted me 6 figures in 6 months. But that's a story for another day.
in march 2013 they did crack down, but they didn't have everybody lined up against the wall with state troopers there. I got off that bus. The greeter pointed people out and they pulled us aside. But several new yorkers slipped right on by. A few never got off the bus and disembarked 5 minutes away at the bethlehem depot.
they nailed a group of local chinese who came from reading, pa. The stop before kutztown..jackson who was one of the original 4from the quakertown runs, and ey immediately handed jackson eviction papers, i somehow wiggled my way out of it with a local id, they gave me 24 hours. In my longer response, i state that one week later they got me for good.
that whole episode was weird because they went after those local chinese and let the new yorkers fly by.
but nobody else was evicted that ey brought a chinese interepter out and even the chinese wiggled their way out, because they had reading, pa id's
just visualise what we were doing, literally getting off a bus, getting bonus and getting right back on the same bus. Or the quakertown runs, the same bums wearing the same clothes getting off the bus 4 times a day from 's hysterical when i look back on it now.
Quote: bobsimsSands cut down that Chinatown bus bonus a few months back after major exposes in NYC newspapers. Maybe they have quietly brought them back?
It should be noted that you only got seats on those buses by paying a kickback to the tour coordinator. No kickback no seat.
the kickback was called the tip, generally $3,,i paid $5 because i sat in the front third of the bus.
Everyone was scared to take the Kutztown bus except me. I had just come along and the greeters didn't peg me as a Chinese bus rider. I also was a bit fearless because I had a California ID. I figured if I ever got stopped I would say I went to visit a friend in Kutztown as I was visiting from CA.
You also seem to know about the AC bus bonus scandal. I wrote an article about that too, (the sequel to this one.) Would love if you know info about that to read it and clarify where my investigation may have gleaned the wrong info. A lot of people on here suspected I was behind or involved in that one however I learned everything for that second hand or through my own observations.
Thx.
or the final straw in the Quakertown runs. The situation was getting hot, and on a balmy 90 degree day, i decided to skip the 1: 30. By now the chinese were lugging a good 60 people down there. (Quakertown was only 35 minutes from the sands) and i felt it was ready to burst. My partner took the usual down and called me to describe an unbelievable scene. 60-70 chinese roasting in the hot sun. The bus came and filled and the leftover chinese had to wait for a second bus. The next bus that pulls in is actually a bus going southbound to Philadelphia. The chinese scamper to the bus and the situation becomes volatile, the driver has to fight them off with his umbrella, the chinese have no idea its the wrong bus. One chinese guy lays in front of the bus, my buddy described as something akin to the tiennemun square protest. The state police are called to diffuse the situation. And that was really the end of the quakertown bus bonus.
or the time we're in kutztown there was always a 2 hour layover until the 5:00 bus. Kutztown is a rural college town, we would walk to the store to kill time, our group has 3 black dudes, the cops roll up on us telling us someone called them because we seemed ssuspicious.
Quote: darkozThanks for the clarifications. When I came along to the Sands scene I got the info from people who went through it. I was not a direct witness.
Everyone was scared to take the Kutztown bus except me. I had just come along and the greeters didn't peg me as a Chinese bus rider. I also was a bit fearless because I had a California ID. I figured if I ever got stopped I would say I went to visit a friend in Kutztown as I was visiting from CA.
You also seem to know about the AC bus bonus scandal. I wrote an article about that too, (the sequel to this one.) Would love if you know info about that to read it and clarify where my investigation may have gleaned the wrong info. A lot of people on here suspected I was behind or involved in that one however I learned everything for that second hand or through my own observations.
Thx.
I tried it, got 2 off. But the third one i swore security was looking right at me as i waited in line. I said "f" this, this is definitely against the law and i left the line and never did it again.
once again, it was brazen, open, done so many times and they got away with it for so long. A week later my girl and i used the chinese buses to navigate to mohegan sun so she could get the $100, when we rolled back into ac that night there was a clear and present surveilance watching the bus depot and i figured i made the right decision getting out of that line a week earlier.
the way i understand it there were never arrests made, only evictions. Which amazed me because they were printing tickets. This is like fraud 101.
Quote: darkozChinatown in NYC serves as the hub of casino bussing of patrons to all the local parlors in the nearby environs. Here you can catch buses to Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun, Empire Casino, Resorts World, the AC casinos and, interestingly enough, the Sands Casino in Pa.
At only 90 minutes away, it makes for a very easy-going trip and they co-incidentally have one of the best bus offers making seats on the bus very much in demand. For just a fifteen dollar bus ticket, patrons receive $45 in free-play. That's quite an advantage!
There is one more advantage for gamblers who are hustling and that is the $45 promotion is completely anonymous. Sands is the only casino to hand out bus free-play pre-loaded onto throw-away players cards which are handed out as patrons exit the bus, no ID is required to attain the cards. In fact, there is one patron who as of a year ago was actually under-age--at 20 years old, he would ride the bus, obtain the players card and then sell it for a premium, the going rate of $40 to a casino patron in the bus lobby as he was unable to enter the gaming floor where security would ID him.
Yes, the going rate for these anonymous cards is $40. Why so high? It's a sellers market. Buyers are desperate for just a five dollar advantage, which isn't too bad because these cards could be used at video blackjack and video poker. And besides, the sellers were spending as much as six hours travelling back and forth with the layover at the casino. Since they were doing the real work, the premium for the cards was high.
And, of course, there were some patrons who actually gambled the cards themselves.
So, just who was taking entire day long bus trips to obtain barely $25 profit? Well, the most suitable people for bus travelling day in and day out for little pay where no ID is required -- the homeless!
Good luck getting a seat on any Sands Casino bus out of Chinatown. Almost the entire bus population is comprised primarily of homeless people. They purchase advance tickets, sold on the bus the previous day so that they can hold their seat. Many of these homeless have been riding the same bus schedule in the same seat being served by the same host for years. And of course they don't restrict themselves to just one trip. Being homeless, they have nowhere to go at night either. So they take the morning bus, sell their free-play, return in the evening and after spending the money on dinner and whatever vices the Sands casino is financing, they hop on the evening bus for another go at it. For them, this is the only way they get a good nights sleep. You or I might find it difficult but a quiet bus, regardless of having to sleep in an upright seated position is better than the alternative--and they basically are getting paid to sleep on a bus!
Your post beat ABC's "Eyewitness News" report on this subject by nearly two years.
Eyewitness News
