NC Casino gets table games

The NC state legislature approved a bill to allow table games. The Cherokee Casino stated they hoped to have the table games up and running before July 4. Poker tables were also approved.
I have not seen any mention of craps, so I do not know if that will be an option.
The bill also permits the Cherokee nation to build up to two more casinos, if they so choose.

As reported in the News and Observer

I, too, have been wondering whether craps would be offered. All of the news media coverage has just said "table games" and referred to poker and blackjack without saying whether any specific games are prohibited, as they are in California and some other states.

Today I did a little searching to see whether I could find what really was approved for the new compact with the tribe. I have not yet been able to come up with a copy of either the compact that was signed or the bill that was passed, but I was able to find the bill as it was introduced into the state senate. That is available here. That bill authorized Class III gaming to include:

Quote: NC Senate Bill

The following Class III games may lawfully be conducted pursuant to subsection (a) of this section:
(1) Gaming machines.
(2) Live table games.
(3) Raffles, as defined in G.S. 14‑309.15(b).
(4) Video games, as defined in G.S. 14‑306 and G.S. 14‑306.1A.

It later goes on to give this definition:

Quote:

Live table games. – Games that utilize real nonelectronic cards, dice, chips, or equipment in the play and operation of the game.

I interpret that to mean that (provided the bill passed in this form) craps is allowed and will be available if the tribe and Harrah's/Caesars wants to offer it.

Press releases coming from the tribe say that they will have "some" new games up and running for July 4, which they describe as their biggest weekend of the year -- note that July 4 is on Wednesday this year -- and they plan to have new games fully implemented in about 90 days. I have heard nothing about dealer training. They could have been working on that since last fall, or they could just have the crap tables run by dealers with no training. I'm not really sure what to expect from them.

Anyone have better info?

Wow, that's great news! And not just for any craps addicts who might happen to live in NC...:-)

But...Umm...Where in that tiny casino space are they going to put more tables? The existing BJ i-tables take up so much space that the table game area feels cramped. Where will they add additional table games, let alone a craps tub or two?

Quote: rdw4potus

But...Umm...Where in that tiny casino space are they going to put more tables?

Isn't the casino expanding along with the rest of the Universe? ;)

I've only been there one time -- got my chip at an electronic blackjack table but realized there was nothing of interest for me there. Since then, I think they have been expanding their facilities. I'm pretty sure they expanded the hotel, but I don't know whether they have modified the casino space in anticipation of getting new games. They got approval to add new casinos in other areas, and I think I read something about them planning to add a building at the same location. That, I haven't checked into.

Quote: Doc

I've only been there one time -- got my chip at an electronic blackjack table but realized there was nothing of interest for me there. Since then, I think they have been expanding their facilities. I'm pretty sure they expanded the hotel, but I don't know whether they have modified the casino space in anticipation of getting new games. They got approval to add new casinos in other areas, and I think I read something about them planning to add a building at the same location. That, I haven't checked into.

I've only been there once as well. The hotel had just been finished, and looked VERY nice. Unfortunately, no rooms were available so I don't know how nice the hotel actually was. Not that they couldn't move it, but the road to the casino part of the parking lot basically circles the building. I don't see how they could expand the casino with any ease at all. maybe a vertical expansion? The casino is one floor below ground level now, so maybe some of the ground level space could be used for gaming (poker room?).

Quote: rdw4potus

I've only been there once as well. The hotel had just been finished, and looked VERY nice. Unfortunately, no rooms were available so I don't know how nice the hotel actually was. Not that they couldn't move it, but the road to the casino part of the parking lot basically circles the building. I don't see how they could expand the casino with any ease at all. maybe a vertical expansion? The casino is one floor below ground level now, so maybe some of the ground level space could be used for gaming (poker room?).

They have a poker room in the no smoking area. That entire non smoking area was meant to be a full real card poker room when it was built in about 2005. The state stopped them saying poker did not fall under approved games. They put slots in there for a while until the state approved Pokertek's Pokerpro machines and now it is shared. I was surprised it took so long since Pokertek is based in NC. There does not seem to be any consensus as to whether there will be live poker. Pokertek's stock is down 20% since this announcement with no other news so I think the investors have reason to believe the machines are coming out.

The approved bill gives the Cherokees the ability to build two more casinos on other tribal land. I would expect that to mean that the tribe knew their space is limited and they needed the ability to expand elsewhere on the reservation. The compact also gives the tribe a monopoly on all gambling west of I26 for what I believe was 30 years in case gambling expands in the future in NC. The state has been fighting gray area video poker/redemption/internet sweepstake machines for the last 15 years. At one point, the machines were clearly legal with small prizes. That is how Cherokee got a casino to begin with with virtually no taxes. NC could not refuse them video poker to begin with, it was legal everywhere in the state, although with many restrictions. Table games were not legal elsewhere so the state was under no obligation to allow them to have tables. I would guess this agreement would mean that NC going back to legalized video poker will never happen, at least not in the Cherokee's guaranteed zone.

Rather than start a new thread, I though I would revive this one for a post. Harrah's Cherokee casino in North Carolina has been discussed in several threads, but this one seems to be the most recent, and it specifically relates to the new table games there.

On Tuesday 9/18, my wife and I made a day trip up to Cherokee to check out the recently implemented table games. On my only previous visit to the casino, I played electronic blackjack briefly to get a souvenir chip for my collection and didn't see any reason ever to go back. Now with the new, real, table games there, I have to reassess that opinion.

Cherokee, NC is a three-hour drive from my home, and we spent about 11 total hours on this day trip, including about 4 hours gaming. The place is still primarily a slot parlor, but (for those who, unlike me, like to play slots) they have real slot machines now, not those "skill" machines that used to fill the place.

As with many casinos, I got completely disoriented in this one. I think there are two pit areas that are only slightly separated, and each of them is a pretty good size. I didn't count tables, but to give an idea, I think it would be extremely difficult to stand at the end of a pit and accurately count the number of tables in it. On a Tuesday afternoon, I saw blackjack being offered at $15 and $25 minimums, Let-It-Ride for $10, and Three-card poker at $10 and $15. There were several roulette tables in operation, but I didn't check out the minimums, and I didn't check out the rules or pay tables on games. There may have been additional games offered, but I spent all of my time at the crap table and only made one sweep around the pit to check out the offerings.

Two crap tables were active and very crowded (hopeful players waiting for spots to get in) the entire time I was there, with a $10 minimum. The Fire Bet was offered and was never hit at my table while I was there. A third crap table was set up and had apparently been in use earlier in the day; the placards indicated it was a $25 table, but I don't know whether it really operated that way. According to the pit supervisor, things had been quiet earlier, so they shut it down for the rest of the shift. Then when the crowd arrived, they didn't have a crew available to open it back up.

The game was dealt excruciatingly slow, which probably explains how I was able to break even on a 4-hour session. The problem was the inexperienced crew. There were two box men who seemed to have plenty of experience. One indicated he was originally from New York, but I didn't hear him say where his casino experience had been. There were four dealers in the rotation. One guy is on loan from Kansas City, and he was very good; he said they are providing him lodging, meals, and other benefits while he is working in NC to get the games going. One girl also seemed to have plenty of experience and was good, but I didn't get to talk to her to know what her situation is. Another guy said he had been dealing craps for a total of two and a half days, and he was amazingly good for that limited experience. He was a little slow at times, and made a couple of errors that either players, box, or experienced dealers helped him with. I was impressed with his work.

The fourth dealer was a girl who was really struggling. I don't know how much training or experience she had, but she required constant, intense, supervision on every payout, and she had a lot of trouble handling the bets from the base position. She seemed to be able to handle the role at stick reasonably well. They had a rotation that never put her at my end of the table, so I'm not really sure what was going on. From where I stood, it appeared that a couple of players at her end were constantly moving bets up and down, increasing/decreasing, and making things as difficult as possible for her. If it really was like that down there, they were being real assholes. For the most part, the speed of the entire game was controlled by how long it took her to take care of business at her end after each roll. Once they get the crews trained, I think it could be a fine place to play craps.

In addition to the three crap tables I mentioned, there were several more that were idle and in the dark. They were doing work on the ceiling or lighting or something in that area, and I could not really tell whether the tables were brand new and never been open or whether they were just shut down by the construction work.

I'll have to wait and see whether my wife and I bother to make more day trips to Cherokee. Our justification for this trip was to get the 8th CheckPoint each in the Great Race to Rewards and move up from 10,000 to 25,000 Rewards Points each before the end of the month. I guess that's the equivalent of a total $300 increase, so it was worth the $70 tank of gas, since I didn't blow $500 on the dice! I can't convince my wife that we should drive the loop to Biloxi, New Orleans, Shreveport, and Elizabeth this next week to earn the full 75,000 Rewards Credits each.

Doc,
Thanks for the write-up. Monday night a buddy had told me his friend had played craps there over the weekend, and had said it was nice. But he didn't have any other details, like number of tables, odds, minimum levels, field bet, etc.

Do you recall the odds (3-4-5x)?
Was the field 2x or 3x on the 12?
Buy 4/10, vig before or on the win?
And the worst scam of all that I saw at Hollywood..... Do they combine your Buy 4 and 10 bets and charge you the extra $1 on the vig?

(Buy the $4 for $30 and it is $1 vig, but Buy the $4 and $10 for $30 each, and they call it a $60 bet and charge you $3). Personally, I can't see how this can be a 'legal' tactic, and if I played there a lot, I would ask the gambling commission to weigh in on that issue. But, for the few times I am there, not worth my time......

Quote: doc

I can't convince my wife that we should drive the loop to Biloxi, New Orleans, Shreveport, and Elizabeth this next week to earn the full 75,000 Rewards Credits each.

That's an $500 gain for each card! You probably could talk me into going with you. I'll play craps all night, and sleep while you are driving to the next place. LOL

Quote: RaleighCraps

Do you recall the odds (3-4-5x)?
Was the field 2x or 3x on the 12?
Buy 4/10, vig before or on the win?
And the worst scam of all that I saw at Hollywood..... Do they combine your Buy 4 and 10 bets and charge you the extra $1 on the vig?

10x odds

2x Field on both the 2 and 12 (Hey, this is Harrah's!)

Buy bet vig paid only on the win, and I saw a lot of buys on 4, 5, 9, and 10, though I wasn't playing that. I'm such a low roller that I'm usually only placing $10 to $18 bets. I didn't notice any lay bets or how vig might have been handled. Didn't notice any combining of vig. $50 buy on the 10 charged $2 vig on the win. I didn't notice anyone taking a buy bet down on the win, so I'm not sure how they handle that.

As a related tale, there were two guys from Atlanta standing next to me. I think they made almost duplicate bets, and this summarizes their play: No pass or don't pass wagers except a $10 pass bet if one of them was the shooter. On even numbered points, $10 on the hardway, sometimes on another hardway and occasional pressure on hardway bets. $10 don't come bet on every following roll, with $30 don't come odds on each wager. They kept the 2.5-days-experience dealer busy practicing the don't bet + odds positioning, collection, and payout, and he handled it very well. They had a lot of volatility in their chip stacks, but I couldn't really follow whether they were up or down overall. They were pleasant to have at the table and didn't create any dark-side/right-side ill will at all.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I'll play craps all night, and sleep while you are driving to the next place.

Guess that would save you on hotel bills!

Quote: Doc

10x odds

2x Field on both the 2 and 12 (Hey, this is Harrah's!)

Buy bet vig paid only on the win, and I saw a lot of buys on 4, 5, 9, and 10, though I wasn't playing that. I'm such a low roller that I'm usually only placing $10 to $18 bets. I didn't notice any lay bets or how vig might have been handled. Didn't notice any combining of vig. $50 buy on the 10 charged $2 vig on the win. I didn't notice anyone taking a buy bet down on the win, so I'm not sure how they handle that.

WOW !

I was not expecting a game that good. 10x odds AND BUY vig on Win. That is a good great game.
You mention the BUY 5 and 9 too. Are they really doing a BUY 5 and 9, vig on the WIN only? The ONLY place that I know where that happens is Tunica and Biloxi.
Most every other place either refuses a BUY on the 5 and 9, or they charge the Vig up front, which makes it a worse bet than just a PLACE 5 and 9.

Looks like the PA and WV Hollywoods just lost a customer. I'll drive out to Cherokee instead. Score 1 for the evil empire. I may have to reevaluate my play with CET.

As far as someone taking a winning BUY bet down, if the vig is collected on the WIN, the dealer should always collect it, whether the bet stays up, or is taken down.
When I ask a dealer if the vig is up front, or on the win, I have had some dealers respond, "the first bet is free, after that you have to pay."
I have to believe that IS NOT the casino policy, but instead is the dealer's misconception of Vig on the Win, since the pay mechanics appear to be the same. Yet this dealer statement would lead to what you are referencing, where I get the first bet for 'free', and then just take down my bet, thus incurring NO VIG.

Quote: Doc

Guess that would save you on hotel bills!

Well, save me on hotel bills? YES. Save me money? That would depend on how kind dem bones are to me. Could be way more expensive than the room. LOL
And then there is the whole matter of personal hygiene, so probably avoiding all hotel expense is not practical. I know I would not want to ride with me after 1 day.

Quote: RaleighCraps

You mention the BUY 5 and 9 too. Are they really doing a BUY 5 and 9, vig on the WIN only? The ONLY place that I know where that happens is Tunica and Biloxi.
Most every other place either refuses a BUY on the 5 and 9, or they charge the Vig up front, which makes it a worse bet than just a PLACE 5 and 9.

Again, I was not making buy bets myself, just observing how others' bets were handled. Every time a $20 or higher wager was placed on the 5 or 9, they dropped a Buy button on top, even without the word "buy" being mentioned by anyone, and vig was paid only on the win.

I agree that the house rules for craps look pretty good (other than no 3x Field), even though my betting level doesn't derive benefits from some of these rules. The 10x odds wouldn't mean much to me unless they were allowing $2 line bets. I'm not sure that with my $200 buy-in I took more than $20 in odds on a pass or come bet all afternoon. Maybe $25 once or twice on a point of 6 or 8. Improving overall HE is great with high odds, but the increased volatility can wreak havoc with a small bankroll (buy-in just 20 times the minimum bet).

My wife said that I should clarify the reason that she opposes my circle-the-south-to-gather-CheckPoints proposal. We just got home 12 days ago from a 10-night trip that had us driving from Las Vegas to Palm Springs, to Yuma, to Lake Havasu City to Laughlin and back to Las Vegas before flying home. We also have a 22-night international trip planned with departure on 10/14; she just isn't up for another trip during these five weeks we are scheduled to be at home.

Hmmmm, work on the house some more this weekend, OR go to Cherokee?

decisions, decisions.............

Just remembered -- I saw a sign at the casino advertising Beer Pong. I didn't have enough interest to read the details, but if you are feeling withdrawal pangs from the closing of O'Sheas ....

Quote: RaleighCraps

Hmmmm, work on the house some more this weekend, OR go to Cherokee?

decisions, decisions.............

So what was the final decision? (And if you stayed at home, don't blame it on your wife; we know how much she likes those Goldfish slots!)

Quote: Doc

So what was the final decision? (And if you stayed at home, don't blame it on your wife; we know how much she likes those Goldfish slots!)

Stayed home and worked on house, in return, we are headed to Cherokee this Saturday. :-) A win-win
Need some positive variance to be my sidekick this trip, as I have Beau Rivage booked in late November.

Quote: RaleighCraps

Quote: Doc

So what was the final decision? (And if you stayed at home, don't blame it on your wife; we know how much she likes those Goldfish slots!)

Stayed home and worked on house, in return, we are headed to Cherokee this Saturday. :-) A win-win
Need some positive variance to be my sidekick this trip, as I have Beau Rivage booked in late November.

Ask, and ye shall receive. First trip to Harrah's Cherokee. Trip details will be in my BLog shortly.

Typical result for the first 7 hours of craps play, to the room at 2:00AM for 2 hours of fitful sleep, and then back to the craps table at 4:00AM.
Then bring on the POSITIVE VARIANCE. My biggest craps win yet. At one point, the 40minute shooter was hitting the 9 and 10 so hard that I had the following Buy bet sequence on the 10:
Buy for $25. Hit and press to $50. Hit and press to $100. Hit and press to $150. Hit and press to $200. Hit and press to $500. Hit and press to $1000. Hit and stand. 7 out

lost $1000 on the 7 out, but won 25+50+150+250+100+500+2000= 3,075 -25 orig bet - 100 vigs - $135 tips to shooter = $2,815 on just that Buy 10 bet.

Not too dang shabby. Should I gather that you will be making return trips to Cherokee?

Here is some additional detail to Doc's previous review of Harrah's Cherokee.

I was headed there with some trepidation as to air quality, as I had heard it was very smokey. I packed extra shirts to wear, and to wear home, but this was all for naught. At no time did I ever really smell any smoke, and my clothes did not pick up any odors. I felt the air handling was very good.
We arrived at 3:45 PM on Saturday. The layout of the casino is fairly confusing. I would like to get a map of the place to look at. There are slots EVERYWHERE. They also still have some of the old slot machines that were required by NC law, prior to the full gaming license. These machines will give you a partial spin, then you make a choice about which partial row you want to keep, and then the spin finishes out. Not what I consider fun for a slot machine. Too much thinking for me. :-)

I quickly found the table games pit. I apologize as I did not think to look at any of the 30-50 BJ tables to see what they paid, 3:2 or 6:5. They also had 6 or so 3 Card Poker tables, and some more Let it Rides. I did not count the Roulette tables, but I would estimate there were 6-10 tables. There were 7 craps tables, all in play, and all FULL! One was $25, the rest were $10 tables. They are the short version table. Six people on each half was a tight squeeze, but was playable if everyone was willing to give up a little space at the rail so the shooter had access. Doc mentioned that some of the new break-in dealers were excruciatingly slow. SECONDED! Overall, they aren't doing too badly, but mix in green dealers, with players who HAVE NO CLUE what they are doing, and it ranged from frustrating to downright comical.
I squeezed into a table after 10 minutes and played until we went to dinner at 7:00 PM. Read my blog for gambling details.

We had made the 5 hour drive with another couple, and the four of us had already decided on Ruth's Chris for dinner. It is pricey, but I have never had a better Ribeye EVER. When I got back to the craps tables at 8:00 PM, I was worried about getting a spot, and afraid of what the mins would be, based on the full tables. All the $10 tables were still there, and still mostly full. I had no wait. When I stopped playing at 1:45 AM only 1 $10 table had been closed. When I walked back in at 4:15 AM, there were still three $10 tables to choose from.

All of the staff was very friendly. Wait service would be called abysmal. Seeing a server once an hour was not a given. Our server seemed to be handling 1/2 of the casino floor. She was working hard, just had way too much ground to cover. That needs to be fixed. I also heard a lot of talk about how the various rules for how to deal a game keep changing from week to week. It is very obvious they are still trying to sort this stuff out. Here was an actual exchange from this Sunday morning. New shooter has rolled 2 craps and a yo on his initial come out roll (no point has been set yet). New player to table wants to make the fire bet. Dealer accepts the bet. Box sees it and says, "No bet. Rules are it has to be made before first roll." Dealer says, "They changed that rule last week. Now it is as long as it is before first point is set." Box says, "That is new news to me." Floor is called over. He says, "I have not been told it was changed." Dealer adamantly says, "They absolutely have made this rule change." So the floor says, "Go ahead and accept the bet." I heard similar type stories from the 3 card poker tables.

One of the suits told me they are bringing in Pai Gow poker in 2013. Hey Dan. I was giving him a hard sell on EZ Pai Gow. He knew of EZ Bac, so he was familiar with the benefits. They apparently are also going to turn the current entire pit into nothing but craps tables and Roulette tables. He was telling me the tables are crammed full every weekend, with people wanting to play that cannot get on. I met a lot of people from Atlanta. This is the closest place for them.

CRAPS RULES (as of 9/29-9/30 - subject to change I guess)

10X odds
Automatic Buy on the 4 and 10, on any bet over $25, vig on the win.
Buy 5 and 9, vig on the win, but the player must state Buy bet, AND, must bet an even amount.
Lay 4 and 10, vig only on the WIN.
Lay 5,6,8,9, vig is paid up front.
Player may increase the pass line bet at any time.
PUT bets are permitted.
Field is 2x on the 2 and 12.
Fire bet ($1min - $5max) pay table is 4#s-25x , 5#s - 250x , 6#s - 1000x
Layout has a HOP 7's bet that pays 15-1, at the top of the C-E columns.
Layout has Hop bets on it. Hop hard 4,6,8,10 were 30:1. Other numbers were 15:1. Pretty sure not all the numbers were listed though.
Max payout on any prop bet limited to $6,000 (That sign was on $10 table. Did not notice what it was when I was playing the $25 table)
ShuffleMaster logo was also on the felt.

Finally, as noted, dealers were quite shaky. It seemed like they would have 2 good dealers, and 2 break-ins on each crew. On my one crew, Rob was a very good dealer. His mechanics were quite good, he did not get flustered. He was able to handle multiple bets quite well, and handled presses with ease. I asked him where he had dealt before Cherokee. I was floored when he said this was his first job. He had come out of the Cherokee dealer school. It turned out the dealer school is 6 weeks, but he was asked to exit the school after 4 weeks, and hit the casino floor early. Ironically, his replacement in the rotation was also named Rob, but for every reason the first Rob was a good dealer, the second Rob was not. Hopefully, he will improve.

And now for the part Dan is not going to like.
IF you are the kind who takes advantage of dealer mistakes, I bet some of these games are probably a +EV right now. I pointed out to the dealer more than a dozen times of my COME bets that were not taken on Come out 7s, but I also missed some. I realized it later when they paid me on the Come bet winner, well after the mistake had been made. Sorry Dan, but I kept those pays. I corrected the ones I knew about, but at some point, it is not up to me to deal the game. I was not playing in a way to cause confusion, and as I said, I pointed out many times that they had failed to take my bet. Part of the problem was they kept letting the Come bets get so close to the box edge that they looked like place bets. I saw them have to correct at least 6 Come bets that were paid as Place bets, and then brought back to pay as a Come Bet. I also got overpaid at least 4 times, and handed it back each time.
At 3 card poker, I heard they were letting one guy play the bonus pair and the 6 card bonus, with NO ANTE. He would never play the hand, just wait for pairs and the 6 card bonus. I don't know the game at all, but I thought I had read this is not right.

Net Result. Harrah's Cherokee's gain (my future play here as my home -5 hr drive casino) is Hollywood Harrisburg PA's loss. They are 1.5 hours closer, and the craps rules are the best I have seen outside of Mississippi. Hopefully they don't make too many changes to the game rules.

I suppose that having 7 crap tables in operation has something to do with your visit being on a Saturday while mine (2 tables open) was on a Tuesday. Yes, the tables did seem small and crowded with six players per end -- I thought it could have been because it was six fat guys when I was there. Did you notice the positions where they arrange the bet chips? I think the felt is marked for there to be eight players on each end. Maybe Tommy Tune, Twiggy, and friends could play that way.

When I was there, I know that they were taking buy bets on 5 and 9 without the player saying "buy". It could be that the player made the same bet so regularly that they didn't make him say it every time. The bets I saw like that were even amounts, generally $20, I think.

I think the dealer crew of 2 experienced with 2 newbies must be the current policy. That's the same as I saw.

Somebody mentioned the sizes of craps tables before and this table is definitely much shorter. Not tub sized, but not the monster either.

I'll cut them some slack on the crews, for now. I know the game pretty well, but I would not be at all comfortable trying to deal the game. I try and be considerate, and since I know the pay sequence, not shout out my new bet until it is my turn to be paid. But there are plenty of people who have no clue, or don't care. I think that extra noise level would get in my head and prevent me from dealing error free.
On the emptier tables I would ask the box if it was okay for me to say I am ALWAYS buying the 4,5,9,10? I indicated I would always make the proper even bet, and they replied I could do that. But they always put the Buy lammer out.
I'm sure some of the casino workers on here could expound on the necessity of the lammer. Biloxi DOES NOT use them. Every 4,5,9,10 over $20 is an automatic Buy. IF you have an odd 5 or 9, then you get short paid a bit, but you still get more than the place bet. I tried to persuade the suit at Harrah's this was the way to go, but he did not seem convinced.

Quote: RaleighCraps

New player to table wants to make the fire bet. Dealer accepts the bet. Box sees it and says, "No bet. Rules are it has to be made before first roll." Dealer says, "They changed that rule last week. Now it is as long as it is before first point is set." Box says, "That is new news to me." Floor is called over. He says, "I have not been told it was changed." Dealer adamantly says, "They absolutely have made this rule change." So the floor says, "Go ahead and accept the bet."

What's funny is that even CET properties vary on this rule. At Horseshoe Southern Indiana, they allow the bet to be made until the First Point had been made. However, other properties require it to be on the first roll, while at least one required the bet to be made before the first point established.

Quote: RaleighCraps

One of the suits told me they are bringing in Pai Gow poker in 2013. Hey Dan. I was giving him a hard sell on EZ Pai Gow. He knew of EZ Bac, so he was familiar with the benefits.

Good luck on that one for Dan. It would be nice if CET would go with this, but they seem to be really sold on the Fortune Side bet.

Quote: RaleighCraps

At 3 card poker, I heard they were letting one guy play the bonus pair and the 6 card bonus, with NO ANTE. He would never play the hand, just wait for pairs and the 6 card bonus. I don't know the game at all, but I thought I had read this is not right.

I don't play enough 3-card to know the rules, but I think the casinos still allow the PP and 6-card to be played by themselves. It's only in Vegas and AC where the Ante is required to win the Million dollars.

The casino layout is pretty confusing, as most tend to be. They have pockets of slots everywhere. They do have one neat feature though. Scattered around the casino are digital directories. You use touch screens to pull up the gaming option you want, or the particular slot machine, and they will give you a map of the casino, and where you can find that slot in each denomination. They also give you the slot bank ID. This ID is pretty important, as the map tends to be not very accurate. But the slot banks are laid out in mostly a grid, so with the bank ID, you have a decent shot at finding your slot.

I have seen several posts about the Craps tables at Cherokee. I am going on vacation next week from NY to Tennessee and Virginia and I plan on stopping in and checking out the place. I tend to stick with Blackjack so I will try to take some notes and provide some insight into that to add to the Craps knowledge in case anyone is interested.

Could you also see what carnival games they have?