WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
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December 16th, 2011 at 4:15:59 PM permalink
Do you think some dealers were told 1/4/6/30/40 was a good bet when it came out, and have stuck with it.
After all, how can changing a 4 to a 3 make *that* much difference???? Not 3 times as bad??? Na, get outta here!
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 16th, 2011 at 6:35:49 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

I beg to differ. A rudimentary understanding of the odds is fundamental to paying off odds bets....

No it's not.

A dealer only needs to know what the odds bet pays. He need never learn that it happens to pay "true odds" or even what that means. Heck, he doesn't even need to know WHY it's called an "odds" bet.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
aluisio
aluisio
Joined: Sep 15, 2010
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December 16th, 2011 at 9:21:03 PM permalink
I think that most dealers know the rules, know the edges but work in favor of the house. In October I went to Punta Cana in Dominican Republic and was playing some 3CP at Majestic Elegance besides 2 more players. The dealer, who was a woman, was trying to convince everyone to bet on their louse bonus feature. Since I was the only one that would not surrender to her cheap talk she started trying to make me look like an 'idiot' for not betting, just like it was mentioned here before.
I did feel very annoyed and went over to the blackjack pit. After 3 hours or more of play I had this conversation with a pit boss and he changed completely his atitude with me. He was very caring and talkative before and after my mention he just started looking like he didn't care.
No bounce, no play.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 16th, 2011 at 9:45:38 PM permalink
I'd imagine the dealers in the Dominican Republic knew the bonus bet is not a good one for the player, therefore its a good one for them. Its casino versus player to them. Those players who are naive are likely to bet the bonus and tip as well. Either way, its "take the money from the players".

Even in the USA many dealers have an "us versus them" orientation. The craps table exists to provide the dealers with tips and the casino with profit and any player who obviously needs help will be told how to tip... that's it! Usually however the dealers are well aware that winning players tip better and will try to give the player proper answers to questions and sound advice. Its just that dealers are taught to deal and there are indeed dealers who think it best for a Don't-Player to declare "No Action". Just as players often have a less than perfect grasp of a game, so too are the dealers less than perfect in their knowledge. The dealer's primary task is to keep the game moving along.
appistapp1s
appistapp1s
Joined: Nov 18, 2011
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December 16th, 2011 at 9:58:11 PM permalink
I have been a dealer for more years than I want to mention. it always surprises how many dealers could care less to learn anything about the games they deal...i would say less than 1% have any idea at all. Most are concerned what days off they have or what number they are on the e.o. Thhey treat the players as a necessary evil to earn their paycheques. The few that do offer any gaming help are usually wrong anyway.
kaysirtap
kaysirtap
Joined: Nov 1, 2011
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December 16th, 2011 at 11:10:13 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

I beg to differ. A rudimentary understanding of the odds is fundamental to paying off odds bets, and the flustered newbies who have trouble dealing with much outside the run-of-the-mill action will take an inordinately long time (if they ever achieve it) to reach a decent degree of mastery controlling their half of the table.

It's not necessary to understand the relationship between an odds payoff and true odds in order to become proficient at dealing the game. Just look at all the dealers on novelty/carnival games (3CP or Caribbean Stud, for example) who have memorized the payout schedule, but have no idea what the actual odds are of receiving the hands that win.

If we're talking specifically about the odds bet in Craps, then I would say that by far most dealers understand the relationship between what they are paying and the combinations of the dice. But this says nothing about the house edge and being able to describe to a player how good a certain bet is as compared to another when we talk about Craps as a whole.

For example, stickmen (stickpeople?) can be very good at calculating prop payoffs... something that many gamblers familiar with the odds and house edges of Craps could NOT do. However, ask those stickpeople if the Yo is a better bet than Aces... or if the Hard 8 is better than the Hard 4 (not hopping) and see what happens. I have no doubt that at least some of them would give you the correct answer. But many dealers I've interacted with don't know this information and are still great at their job. I'd be curious as to how many of those dealers who got the answer right are, or were Craps players.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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December 17th, 2011 at 12:51:36 AM permalink
I like to play the fool and keep saying "... and I was going to bet that!" when it is pointed out that the sucker bet pays off. Then when it is suggested I bet it, I tell them I go with my hunches only, and it is a jinx when someone pushes a bet. Keep 'em guessing.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: 典hanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 17th, 2011 at 5:30:43 AM permalink
Here is my take from my attempt at dealer school. Comments of some others may be repeated here.

This dealer school was run by the casino. In craps we were taught about "house edge" but it was not taught as a % and if percents were talked about it was not talked about in great detail. In fact, when we talked about hopping bets I was the only one to calculate a percent. Instructor says, "If the chances are 36-1 to roll a 6-6 and we give 30-1 what is our edge?" He sort-of led the class to say, "six bets of 36" while I was blurting out "20%." Soon as I did he gave a good-knowing look at me. If not for this site, however, I would have not known the %s for the most part.

Craps was taught at a higher-level than BJ. Craps got you more "whys" explained. BJ seemed to me more of a "we need 200 people to deal this game, lets get them trained and the good ones we will groom for supervisor jobs."

How can they go for years and never look it up? Simple, look at how many other people never want to learn more than the basics of their jobs. To plenty in delaler school the mentality was that the job paid well and you needed not a great deal of education, certainly not college, to make $40K. So dummy up and turn the cards. Of course it doesn't help that many pit-bosses prefer near-robots with a personality who never call in sick. IOW, dealers are not much different than any other entry-level job.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
DeadRats
DeadRats
Joined: Dec 13, 2011
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December 17th, 2011 at 7:41:21 AM permalink
Quote: appistapp1s

I have been a dealer for more years than I want to mention. it always surprises how many dealers could care less to learn anything about the games they deal...i would say less than 1% have any idea at all. Most are concerned what days off they have or what number they are on the e.o. Thhey treat the players as a necessary evil to earn their paycheques. The few that do offer any gaming help are usually wrong anyway.



Don't you just love it when a dealer offers a novice players advice? Like " When I have a 6 up, I almost always bust. But with a deuce I hardly ever bust. That why a deuce is called the dealer's Ace " Worse yet the dealer believes he is helping !!
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
Joined: May 5, 2010
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December 17th, 2011 at 1:35:48 PM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

Do you think some dealers were told 1/4/6/30/40 was a good bet when it came out, and have stuck with it.
After all, how can changing a 4 to a 3 make *that* much difference???? Not 3 times as bad??? Na, get outta here!



My favorite dealer response when Par-a-Dice in East Peoria changed the payout from 4 to 3...

"Most people play $10 on the Pairs Plus. A 3-1 payout is very simple: 1 green chip ($25) and 1 red chip ($5). The cameras were having a hard time figuring out when they were being paid wrong before."

I also noticed that all the casinos up in NY offered 4-1 on the payout. I said something to the dealer, saying I hadn't played the game in years since I hadn't seen that payout for a while. He said b/c of Indian Gaming Law there is no chance of them changing it anytime soon. I guess that's good for players.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park

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