Earthscraper

Have you seen this design for a building that goes into the ground over a 1000' deep (65 stories). It was designed for the zocalo in Mexico city where earthquakes prevent the tallest buildings from being built.

Right now Mexico city has only 4 buildings over 600', and two more under construction. The tallest will be 800' and 57 stories above ground and 10 stories below ground/

Quote: pacomartin

Have you seen this design for a building that goes into the ground over a 1000' deep (65 stories). It was designed for the zocalo in Mexico city where earthquakes prevent the tallest buildings from being built.

No offense, but this looks like a practical joke.

The core part of Mex City, specifically the Centro area where the Zocalo is located, has lots and lots of underground water. This actually makes the quakes worse. For a simple demonstration, take a model house and shake it a bit. then out it on top a slab of Jell-O and do the same. You'll immediately see the latter shaking is much worse.

It doens't seem possible any major excavation, let a lone extensive underground building, can take place under such conditions. To be sure ther is anextendive subway system, but water is a major, ongoing problem. The subways don't go down that deep, either. In fact, in some areas the "subway" lines run on the surface.

Quote: Nareed

No offense, but this looks like a practical joke.

You just reminded me of an old "joke": There is a 560' hole in the ground known as the Martha Washington Monument.

This is idiotic. Why would you build a pyramid shaped below ground structure? Just build a cube that's ~1/3 the depth.

It's a "concept" design by some Mexico City architects.

So stupid, the mayor has refused for months to give them an audience to discuss it.

Quote: sunrise089

This is idiotic. Why would you build a pyramid shaped below ground structure? Just build a cube that's ~1/3 the depth.

Perhaps the cone shape is more stable since the structural load is carried by the surrounding earth rather than the sides of the cube. The design also allows more unobstructed natural light to reach the bottom.

My question is how do you get fromt the top to the bottom? It must be a funicular type of carriage system, or wouldn't it be awesome if they put in a kick-butt spiral ramp? You could ride a skateboard a couple of miles all the way to the bottom, totally vertical on the walls!

Quote: Ayecarumba

Perhaps the cone shape is more stable since the structural load is carried by the surrounding earth rather than the sides of the cube. The design also allows more unobstructed natural light to reach the bottom.

Sure, but read about the water problem I mentioned above. Of course, you'd expect architects to know that.

There are other areas in town where underground construction is not as problematic. Much of the western part of town is solid bedrock, for example.

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My question is how do you get fromt the top to the bottom?

Elevator?

More important, what happen if there's a fire? That's always an important consideration underground, but in such a large structure, thousands could be cut off by a massive fire that's hard to fight.

While the cone shape might be better to carry the structural load, I'd be a bit concerned about flooding.

Quote: MrV

So stupid, the mayor has refused for months to give them an audience to discuss it.

Smart mayor.

What structural load? A 50 story elongated pyramid has the square footage of what, a 15 story building. That's trivial to support above ground, much less below, and is safer and easier to move around in.

I respect the idea of building down to lower earthquake risk (if we can avoid getting entombed in the structure if something goes wrong...my cube idea is safer that way too), but as soon as they throw out that pyramid it's obvious this is like a concept car not intended for production - flashy for attention, but otherwise sort of pointless.

Quote: sunrise089

I respect the idea of building down to lower earthquake risk (if we can avoid getting entombed in the structure if something goes wrong...my cube idea is safer that way too),

For that matter underground is not necessarily safer during a quake. Regular buildings sway, tall ones more so, which allows the kinetic energy to be used up and dissipate. Underground you won't sway. I've no idea what happens then.

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but as soon as they throw out that pyramid it's obvious this is like a concept car not intended for production - flashy for attention, but otherwise sort of pointless.

Not necessarily pointless. Features from concept cars often find their way into production. And the idea is pretty, if you can pipe in enough natural light. It may be an attention grabber, but it might also inspire someone else. I agree, though, that given all that's been said here, not to mention the cost, the idea is not a serious propposal to build the thing.

They are proposing building down, not up, because there is no more land available in the vicinity.

They actually propose to build on the hallowed ground of Zocalo Square itself, and to replace the pavement with glass.

Quote: sunrise089

What structural load? A 50 story elongated pyramid has the square footage of what, a 15 story building. That's trivial to support above ground, much less below, and is safer and easier to move around in.

I respect the idea of building down to lower earthquake risk (if we can avoid getting entombed in the structure if something goes wrong...my cube idea is safer that way too), but as soon as they throw out that pyramid it's obvious this is like a concept car not intended for production - flashy for attention, but otherwise sort of pointless.

BNKR arquitectura came up for the design. They believe the underground water can be harnessed to power the building. As the zocolo would now become a glass top, with people marching on it all day and spilling things, I would think it would be a huge problem to keep clean, and I wonder how much light would actually be let in. The belief is that the building could be no more dangerous than any other skyscraper in a fire. I suppose that it would be safer in an earthquake than a skyscraper since there would be no periodic motion caused by the swaying.

The pyramid shape seems to have no other reason than to permit the building to go very deep. Otherwise it might look like a giant parking garage.

Digging up the zocalo would be a massive endeavor. Of course, the most likely thing is that they will find countless treasures from the Mexica civilization once they begin digging. If you have been to Mexico city, you know they unearthed a huge unknown pyramid right next to the zocalo when they were digging for a subway line.

They may get more newscoverage for their smaller projects like this Wedding Chapel.



Image of the Templo Mayor discovered next to the zocalo when they were digging the subway.

Quote: pacomartin

They believe the underground water can be harnessed to power the building.

Do they say how? It's not as if it forms rivers or lakes. It's just there, moving slowly.

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As the zocolo would now become a glass top, with people marching on it all day and spilling things, I would think it would be a huge problem to keep clean, and I wonder how much light would actually be let in.

ZocAlo.

Anyway, that pretty picture Mr V posted is far from today's reality. The aplce has been taken over as a private area for the use of the PRD. For a ahile it was not so bad, as they mounted art exhibits and assembled an ice rink during the winter. But for the past year or so it's been taken over by the electricians union (long story).

Quote: Nareed

Not necessarily pointless. Features from concept cars often find their way into production. And the idea is pretty, if you can pipe in enough natural light. It may be an attention grabber, but it might also inspire someone else. I agree, though, that given all that's been said here, not to mention the cost, the idea is not a serious propposal to build the thing.

You have to give them some credit for opening up the discussion of imaginative use of underground space. While the giant glass top may be one way to get natural sunlight into the structure, there are ways of getting fiber optics to bring natural light into spaces. The Japanese did it with their military ships, to keep moral up for people who spent lots of time inside (particularly since heavy sea states makes walking on deck hazardous).

Washington D.C.; Paris, France; and to some extent London and Madrid have all endeavored to prevent the growth of skyscrapers from destroying their cityscape. Some imaginative use of underground space could create more living area and prevent the interminable commutes that people have to endure.

Many people think that the only way for Southern California to solve it's runway problem is to build pneumatically stabilized runways in the ocean. One such prototype was built in the Tokyo bay.


If San Diego were ever able to build an offshore airport, it would be nice to think that an option for the 650 acres where the current airport sits would be to build underground, and keep the relatively low rise nature of the city. Right now everything is under 500' because of safety concerns about the airport.

Quote: pacomartin

Washington D.C.; Paris, France; and to some extent London and Madrid have all endeavored to prevent the growth of skyscrapers from destroying their cityscape.

But that's just silly. The skyscrapers are the cityscape!