StevenBlack
StevenBlack
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May 9th, 2011 at 11:18:56 PM permalink
I thought I had heard that the Twin Towers were quite under-occupied on the morning of 9/11. In other words, I thought I had heard that there 'should' have been much more carnage than there already was. I realize this is a sensitive topic because one death on that day was way too much.

I cannot find any hard data on this issue. Wouldn't it be interesting to find that, for example, there were 650 less people in the Twin Towers on that morning than there 'should' have been. Of course, some more religiously-inclined might plug the # (e.g., 650) into a statistics formula to see if the # of people that were expected to be there but weren't falls within the realm of "so what -650 isn't out of the ordinary" vs. "wow, there were a tremendous # of folks not a work that day -maybe there is a SYSTEMATIC reason behind this - perhaps God?".
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 10th, 2011 at 3:25:18 AM permalink
Quote: StevenBlack

I thought I had heard that the Twin Towers were quite under-occupied on the morning of 9/11. In other words, I thought I had heard that there 'should' have been much more carnage than there already was. I realize this is a sensitive topic because one death on that day was way too much.

I cannot find any hard data on this issue. Wouldn't it be interesting to find that, for example, there were 650 less people in the Twin Towers on that morning than there 'should' have been. Of course, some more religiously-inclined might plug the # (e.g., 650) into a statistics formula to see if the # of people that were expected to be there but weren't falls within the realm of "so what -650 isn't out of the ordinary" vs. "wow, there were a tremendous # of folks not a work that day -maybe there is a SYSTEMATIC reason behind this - perhaps God?".




Do you mean under-occupied in terms of tennants or people at work?

The planes hit early in the day, before the markets opened and before Windows on the World was open for the day. WotW at lunch alone might have been hundreds more given how large it was. I did personally know one trader who decided not to go to work that day since it was so nice of a late summer day with few like it left in the year, though he woked in Building 7.
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JimMorrison
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May 10th, 2011 at 3:58:23 AM permalink
It was an election day in New York City for the race for Mayor. That perhaps could account for a slightly less occupancy rate at the time of the attack.

Personally I know three people who should've been in the building at that time. Each of them had something else going on and were thankfully not there.
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StevenBlack
StevenBlack
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May 10th, 2011 at 10:22:35 PM permalink
Thanks for the replies.

I mean any humans (whether tenant or people at work).

It seems the carnage could have been worse. Has anyone done any studies on this? For example, let's just say that the average #of people (I'm just throwing out a number) in the building at the time the attacks took place is usually, on average, about 4,788, for that day of the week. In contrast, can we find out how many were there that day? For example, if there were "only" 3,300, isn't that really quite interesting and provocative?
Wavy70
Wavy70
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May 10th, 2011 at 10:42:19 PM permalink
Quote: StevenBlack

Thanks for the replies.

I mean any humans (whether tenant or people at work).

It seems the carnage could have been worse. Has anyone done any studies on this? For example, let's just say that the average #of people (I'm just throwing out a number) in the building at the time the attacks took place is usually, on average, about 4,788, for that day of the week. In contrast, can we find out how many were there that day? For example, if there were "only" 3,300, isn't that really quite interesting and provocative?



Many people who were in the buildings did get out. So 3,300 were the amount that could not make it out.
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Nareed
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May 11th, 2011 at 11:49:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

Many people who were in the buildings did get out. So 3,300 were the amount that could not make it out.



Right.

But also I wouldn't amke too much of any fluctuations in numbers. Coincidences do happen. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, all the carriers were at sea. That was a huge stroke of luck for the U.S.
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Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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May 11th, 2011 at 12:04:02 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Coincidences do happen. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, all the carriers were at sea. That was a huge stroke of luck for the U.S.



It was also bad luck that many of the sailors attended a band performance in Honolulu the night before, staying up late, which caused many of them to sleep in the next morning. The attack began early in the morning. Otherwise, I think more men would have been up and could have jumped overboard.

About the World Trade Center, the body count would have obviously been much higher closer to noon. However, as I understand it, the hijackers knew the planes would have fewer passengers early in the morning, and would be easier to seize control of. They did lots of test runs to decide on the specific details of their scheme.
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thecesspit
thecesspit
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May 11th, 2011 at 1:17:58 PM permalink
When the terrorists attacked London on the 7th July, the Northern Line, which I took every day, and never failed... failed. So I took a bus, and avoided being stuck in a tunnel when some f-tard blew himself up (not even close to a lucky escape for me, was wrong time and wrong direction). The bus should have gone via Russell square, but was diverted because he blew himself up there instead. Right outside a conference for Accident and Emergency doctors (ER in US parlance). Several people on the bus wouldn't have been except for the wide spread tube chaos caused by the first three bombs (though at the time it seemed like some sort of power failure on the network).

I got into work finally, in time to help set up the communications centre for people to phone in to report missing people and find their loved ones. That system had been in place for a few weeks, and only a half dozen people really knew the technology from end to end to get it running. Three of them where in the same office that morning, plus the ancillary staff who'd worked on the process design and information call outs to the various police forces. This group of people had NEVER been in the same office at the same time once that year.

The system did exactly the job it was designed for, with some initial teething problems that the public probably never saw.

In short there was a series of "lucky" or happenstancial events that day. Just like there is everyday. Just some days are more meaningful the others.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
SFB
SFB
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May 12th, 2011 at 2:30:12 PM permalink
Mr Black:

According to this site: WTC Stuff There were about 50,000 people who worked in the WTC. This probably includes the other buildings on site as well.

The first plane hit before 9 am, and the second at 9:05. Many people reported hearing the building PA system telling folks to stay put. But after the bombing of 1993, many people learned to GET OUT as fast as possible.

If you take the 50k number, and assume that maybe there are 5k in the other buildings, then you 45k in the two towers. It being early, and many places are not fully up to speed, (WonW restaurant, for example) then you can clearly figure that only 30k may have been in the building. Not withstanding potential visitors, etc.

That would put 15k in each building. And since the airplanes hit the 89th floor of the North Tower, and 65th of the South, that would mean that everyone below the airplane strikes, could escape down the stairs, etc. And they did. So, the death toll makes sense. If you were above the plane strike, you were dead. It was just a matter of time.

Many of the Firemen walking UP the stairs, did not encounter lots of people climbing DOWN. They had already left. As big as the buildings were, when you are scared, and something bad is happening, you can get going down the stairs pretty quick...

And no, all the Jews were NOT alerted beforehand.

SFB
Doc
Doc
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May 12th, 2011 at 6:32:03 PM permalink
Quote: SFB

... Many of the Firemen walking UP the stairs, did not encounter lots of people climbing DOWN. They had already left. As big as the buildings were, when you are scared, and something bad is happening, you can get going down the stairs pretty quick...


OK, so I'm not addressing the statistics of WTC at all. I'm just posting a link to an mp3 file of a song that commemorates the heroism of those firemen, written/sung from the viewpoint of someone who escaped the towers. Take a listen if you want to feel some of the emotions again.

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