Poll

21 votes (63.63%)
12 votes (36.36%)

33 members have voted

JL2
JL2
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April 3rd, 2011 at 8:00:08 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

It looks like we may have a challenge! Can Dorothy find out EvenBob's real name and address?



I'll take some of that. I have some knowledge of law enforcement, and Bob is correct. Unless there is a court order or if one of the parties is a suspected enemy of the state, no one can get anyone's name address or anything else personal from a computer.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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April 3rd, 2011 at 8:00:37 PM permalink
The reason MKL and Jerry didn't fare well here is because the forum owner is also the mod. On other forums I'm sure they get away with murder. Its not an accident that MKL posted 15-25 times a day. He's been at this a long time, he knows how to take over a forum. And ruin one.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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April 3rd, 2011 at 8:04:40 PM permalink
Quote: JL2

I'll take some of that. I have some knowledge of law enforcement, and Bob is correct. Unless there is a court order



You should have seen some of those cops that came in waving their badges around and demanding I give them a name and address. They often threatened me with prosecution and harassment. I got used to it and just ignored them. They know the law, but I'm sure being a jerk got them what they wanted in some places. The plain clothes detectives were the worst. The state cops were the best, they were always polite.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
teeth1
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April 3rd, 2011 at 8:12:45 PM permalink
Is Dorothy a cop?
DeMango
DeMango
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April 3rd, 2011 at 11:29:37 PM permalink
Also could we find out if JL and RS were the same person?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
weaselman
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April 4th, 2011 at 3:45:26 AM permalink
Quote: DorothyGale


As for anonymity on forums, I have tracked users via IP to their house looking at log files from forums.


You could not have possibly done that, unless you are an (unethical) internet service provider, or you have bribed one to disclose their logs to you.

Quote:

To create an account you usually need an email address of some sort. Those can also be tracked directly to the computer that sends the email.


Again, not unless you own or bribe the email service provider (except, if the user actually uses that service to send an email to you - then you can get the IP from the header in some cases, but not the home address, of course).

Quote:


Privacy is a fundamental issue. So are property rights. Neither is outside the scope of the law just because it's on an Internet message board.


There is no privacy issue on the message boards. Everything, that passes through this server, is Wizard's property, he is free to do as he pleases with it. It may be unethical, but there are no laws that would prevent it.
Things like disclosing user activity by the ISP or an EMTA to an unauthorized third party, are criminal acts though.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
EvenBob
EvenBob
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April 4th, 2011 at 4:13:10 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman

You could not have possibly done that, unless you are an internet provider, or you bribed one to disclose their logs to you.



This is a sore subject with me. I hear people making the claim they can 'track you to your house' using your IP address, about half a dozen times a year. Its a fact that not even the FBI has that capability, it cannot be done. The internet provider is the only entity that has individual subscriber info and its a felony for them to give it up without a court order, signed by a judge. And those aren't easy to get. Law enforcement has to provide solid evidence that a crime has been committed. Its a privacy issue, just like a phone tap or getting the name of someone who has a PO box. It protected under law. Thank god. I remember when I bought the mailbox franchise, the previous owner explained it to me several times, I could go to jail if I released info without a court order. My poor wife would work there sometimes, and on a few occasions she had police badgering her into the ground trying to get info. She would end up crying and crying. The bastards...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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April 4th, 2011 at 4:29:56 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't plan to publish it. > However, I knew mkl personally and one comment in particular cut right to the heart.



I missed this entirely the first time. So he burned his bridges in a moment of madness. Unexpected behavior from someone with a 190 IQ. Ah well, its his loss and our gain..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Mosca
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 5:50:29 AM permalink
Quote: JL2

I'll take some of that. I have some knowledge of law enforcement, and Bob is correct. Unless there is a court order or if one of the parties is a suspected enemy of the state, no one can get anyone's name address or anything else personal from a computer.



That's not true at all. I found out tuttigym's name, address, and phone number by entering "tuttigym" into Google. The place where he's registered that user name no longer carries the profile link, he must have changed it to private.

If I cared enough, I could probably find about a third of the regular users here in a couple hours each, but it isn't important to me. And I'm an internet sleuth nincompoop. The people who are really good at it, you don't have a chance against them. They'll be having pizzas and porn sent to your house in 15 minutes.

Let's start with EvenBob in upstate New York.
A falling knife has no handle.
DorothyGale
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April 4th, 2011 at 6:26:01 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman

You could not have possibly done that, unless you are an (unethical) internet service provider, or you have bribed one to disclose their logs to you.

I helped start an ISP in the mid 90's somewhere around where I lived at the time ... before the big boys (e.g. cox) were providing. I owned a good piece of the ISP for many years ... sold it about 2005 for pennies on the dollar (well, to be precise, 3.7 cents on the dollar).

About being ethical ... isn't this what the discussion is all about? And, I am not above being unethical ... just ask the snails in my garden ...

--Ms. D.
"Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!"
JL2
JL2
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April 4th, 2011 at 6:29:08 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

That's not true at all. I found out tuttigym's name, address, and phone number by entering "tuttigym" into Google. The place where he's registered that user name no longer carries the profile link, he must have changed it to private.

If I cared enough, I could probably find about a third of the regular users here in a couple hours each, but it isn't important to me. And I'm an internet sleuth nincompoop. The people who are really good at it, you don't have a chance against them. They'll be having pizzas and porn sent to your house in 15 minutes.



If a person uses an anonymous internet name and wishes his or her personal details to remain private, they are and cannot be accessed without a court order. If a person such as tuttigum registers that information then it is public access. But he may be spoofing you and you'd never know. None of it could be true.

I challenge anyone here of those who "are really good at it" to send a pizza delivered by a hooker to both my house and yours in the next 24 hours.
Mosca
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 6:31:14 AM permalink
About 5-6 years ago, someone posted a video of himself driving his WRX at over 100mph through rush hour traffic. Before nightfall of the same day, the users at nasioc.com had his name, address, phone numbers (land, cell, and work) where he worked, his boss' name, satellite photos of his apartment complex, and pictures of him drinking with his girlfriend.
A falling knife has no handle.
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 6:35:33 AM permalink
Quote: JL2

If a person uses an anonymous internet name and wishes his or her personal details to remain private, they are and cannot be accessed without a court order. If a person such as tuttigum registers that information then it is public access. But he may be spoofing you and you'd never know. None of it could be true.



Sure, that could be. But the easiest way to find something out isn't by cracking it; it's by asking for it. The most common way to find something is to trust that the person believes no one will find it.

For example, from the nasioc forum (I starred out some letters and numbers):

-Starting in Dec 1989 Taylor and his parents, Raymond and Stacy lived at:
2853 Timber Dr, Grapevine, TX 76051

-It appears in July 2000 sometime, the house was transferred to Stacy.

-Then in January 2001 she filed for divorce and it looks like Ray moved out.

-It looks like he moved into what appears to be his current residence:
2400 Glade Rd, Colleyville, TX 76034

-On 4th of July 2004 Ray got re-married to Catherine Anne McCauley who formerly lived at:
2318 Dove Meadow Ct, Grapevine, TX 76051

-But, she moved in with Ray (I assume), and sold her house to William Freckman in Oct 2004.

-Then in Dec 2004 or so, Mom sold the house on Timber Dr. and moved into her new house at (her name is misspelled V******p on the Tax account):
1610 Maxwell Ct, Euless, TX 76039

-------------------------------------------
Mom's current address:
1610 Maxwell Ct, Euless, TX 76039

Dad's (and I assume Step-Mom) current address:
2400 Glade Rd, Colleyville, TX 76034

Though there is a C A Mccauley who owns a house at:
4010 Ambleside Ct, Colleyville TX 76034

And a current search on anywho.com for "T V******p" provides the following:
V******p, Taylor
428 Pecan Bend Dr
B******, ** 7****
8**-2**-6***
A falling knife has no handle.
Mosca
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 7:01:28 AM permalink
Here's another one. This thread lasted almost 4 years and 3000 posts. It was at about post #150 that the offender asked the forum to please stop calling his phone.

This is some really stupid driving...
A falling knife has no handle.
weaselman
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April 4th, 2011 at 7:01:47 AM permalink
Quote: DorothyGale

I helped start an ISP in the mid 90's somewhere around where I lived at the time ... before the big boys (e.g. cox) were providing. I owned a good piece of the ISP for many years ... sold it about 2005 for pennies on the dollar (well, to be precise, 3.7 cents on the dollar).

About being ethical ... isn't this what the discussion is all about? And, I am not above being unethical ... just ask the snails in my garden ...

--Ms. D.



Yeah, but this is beyond unethical. Using the ISP info without proper authorization is a felony.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
DorothyGale
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April 4th, 2011 at 8:57:31 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman

Yeah, but this is beyond unethical. Using the ISP info without proper authorization is a felony.

Oh, probably, yes. We were young zork-loving entrepreneurs who suddenly had access to power tools. There was some crazy stuff going on. It was the wild west -- Compuserve and AOL were the national competitors -- there was only one other ISP in the little town I lived in. We quickly grew to over 8000 customers and I was in the field installing winsock in client computers so they could run SLIP (which put us way ahead of everyone else). We ran the ISP on Solaris 2.4 with about 100 modems before we got our first T-1. I was one of the system admins. I remember early on there was an offer to buy us out for $2M. Sigh.

That was a long time ago. We were all much younger then.

--Ms. D.
"Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!"
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 4th, 2011 at 8:59:33 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

About 5-6 years ago, someone posted a video of himself driving his WRX at over 100mph through rush hour traffic. Before nightfall of the same day, the users at nasioc.com had his name, address, phone numbers (land, cell, and work) where he worked, his boss' name, satellite photos of his apartment complex, and pictures of him drinking with his girlfriend.


Interesting coincidence that the acronym for the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club (NASIOC) is an anagram of "CASINO".
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
teddys
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:29:40 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Let's start with EvenBob in upstate New York.

Don't think so. Bob has pretty much said that he lives in Kalamazoo.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
buzzpaff
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:33:05 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

Don't think so. Bob has pretty much said that he lives in Kalamazoo.



And we ars supposed to believe Kalamazoo is not a fictional town ?? How would a town get named Kalamazoo ??
thecesspit
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:40:00 AM permalink
Home of the Kalamazoo Wings of the ECHL...
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:43:43 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

And we ars supposed to believe Kalamazoo is not a fictional town ?? How would a town get named Kalamazoo ??


Google map of Kalamazoo, Michigan
Wikipedia page for Kalamazoo, Michigan
Settled in 1829, incoprorated in 1883.
Wikipedia page for Kalamazoo County, Michigan
Founded 1830.

Wikipedia page for Glenn Miller's hit, (I've got a gal in) Kalamazoo

Should I go on?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AZDuffman
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:43:46 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

And we ars supposed to believe Kalamazoo is not a fictional town ?? How would a town get named Kalamazoo ??



Maybe it was founded by Jebbadiah Kalamazoo?

It hardly rates near the top of "silly names" on towns. I have been to or near:

Zzzyzx
Horseheads
Lemont Furnace
Bird in Hand

And many, many more.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Mosca
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:47:03 AM permalink
LOL, that's what I get for a 10 second google.

Still; it's not that hard. I'm just not really motivated to do it, or to prove it, or to win the discussion. EvenBob might not have been the right person to start with; his was the name I was looking at when I decided to open a new window and type, as I was finishing my morning cereal and getting ready to go to work.

Shoot, I chose DJTeddyBear next, and he has made no effort at all to be hidden (as he shouldn't, given his line of work)!
A falling knife has no handle.
DJTeddyBear
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:50:54 AM permalink
P.S.

Don't feel bad. From the Wikipedia page:
Quote:

Today, t-shirts are sold in Kalamazoo with the phrase "Yes, there really is a Kalamazoo".

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
thecesspit
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:51:46 AM permalink
Truth of Consequences, Arizona, home of Cactus Jack
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
buzzpaff
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:58:13 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Home of the Kalamazoo Wings of the ECHL...[/

Kalamazoo is a Native American word that means boiling water. The river makes the sound of "kalamazoo" and the town was named for that reason. It was originally named Bronsan after the founder but changed it's name due to a scandal.


Boiling water and Ice hockey and I am supposed to believe Kalamazoo is not the figment of someone's imagination ?

DJTeddyBear
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April 4th, 2011 at 11:59:54 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Shoot, I chose DJTeddyBear next, and he has made no effort at all to be hidden (as he shouldn't, given his line of work)!

Hell, if you've been paying attention at all, you can figure out my geographic location easily without resorting to google.

And if you've been paying attention even slightly more than minimally, you can gain a LOT if info about me without resorting to Google, such as: first and last name, approx age, day job type of job and industry, marital status, number of kids, and even my cell phone number. Please don't call just because this post prompted you to.

A little more effort will produce several email addresses that you can find about me.

---

For what it's worth, on forums that include some bio under the user name, I usually include my real name, as well as location, and use my photo as an avatar.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Nareed
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April 4th, 2011 at 12:22:57 PM permalink
There are so many cities, towns, small towns, whistle-stops (whatever they are), vilalges and plain spots on the map, all over the world, that I'm willing to bet any reasonable sequence of consonants and vowels pronounceable in the West will correspond to the name of a real place.

Bonus: is there a Tar Heel, North Carolina?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Mosca
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 12:25:16 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Hell, if you've been paying attention at all, you can figure out my geographic location easily without resorting to google.

And if you've been paying attention even slightly more than minimally, you can gain a LOT if info about me without resorting to Google, such as: first and last name, approx age, day job type of job and industry, marital status, number of kids, and even my cell phone number. Please don't call just because this post prompted you to.

A little more effort will produce several email addresses that you can find about me.

---

For what it's worth, on forums that include some bio under the user name, I usually include my real name, as well as location, and use my photo as an avatar.



I know, I figured you'd respond with a smile. I chose you at random as well, just the name that happened to be on the screen as I was typing. I got most of your information from your profile, of course, plus knowing what you've posted in the past.
A falling knife has no handle.
DJTeddyBear
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April 4th, 2011 at 12:28:14 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I know, I figured you'd respond with a smile. I chose you at random as well, just the name that happened to be on the screen as I was typing. I got most of your information from your profile, of course, plus knowing what you've posted in the past.

Duh! I completely forgot that some of that stuff is in the profile here!

---

Tar Heel? Google Map
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
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April 4th, 2011 at 12:34:24 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Truth of Consequences, Arizona, home of Cactus Jack

Actually, he's from Truth or Consequences, New Mexico

I would have let the first one go as a typo, but....

---

Google Map
Wikipedia Page

By the way, according to the Wikipedia page:
Quote:

The town was the fictional hometown of Cactus Jack and Dude Love, two of the several professional wrestling personas of Mick Foley.

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 12:43:33 PM permalink
new trolling ground for mkl654321
A falling knife has no handle.
weaselman
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April 4th, 2011 at 12:57:14 PM permalink
And here is Mosca, who turns out to be a 20-year-old DJ from London, UK. Had us all fooled, hadn't you?
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Mosca
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April 4th, 2011 at 1:12:27 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

And here is Mosca, who turns out to be a 20-year-old DJ from London, UK. Had us all fooled, hadn't you?



LOL... actually, I found my hometown location, through google, using information I've posted freely here. It wouldn't take much past that to find out the rest.
A falling knife has no handle.
FarFromVegas
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April 4th, 2011 at 1:17:30 PM permalink
Et moi, je suis Francaise! Mon dieu!

FarFromVegas

Et tres jeune, alors...
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
boymimbo
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April 4th, 2011 at 3:01:18 PM permalink
Thinking about all of this should remind all of us that our personal information that we put out here is not private, at all. You can compile a ton of information on individuals especially if you have a consistent online presence. That much is obvious.

Websites can track IP addresses. IP addresses can be tracked to service providers but no deeper than that without court orders. But if you leave an online presence, you can get hometown, address, phone number, etc. Burglars break into homes using facebook updates and cross referencing names with addresses.

Hackers break into web storefronts all of the time and get people's addresses, email addresses, credit card information and so on. Nothing is really safe.

So my best advice is to not create enemies on the Web... as you never know when they will come out to haunt you.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
DJTeddyBear
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April 4th, 2011 at 3:52:30 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

So my best advice is to not create enemies on the Web... as you never know when they will come out to haunt you.

On that note....

I hope nobody things I was being a show-off / know-it-all with my posts about Kalamazoo and Truth Or Consequences. I KNEW that Kalamazoo is a real town, but had only a distant bell ringing about Truth Or Consequences.

Of course, the real cool part is the internet. I find it just so cool and fun to Google and Wikipedia stuff, and I felt like sharing my findings.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
thecesspit
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April 4th, 2011 at 4:23:10 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Actually, he's from Truth or Consequences, New Mexico



Note how the R and F are next to each other on the keyboard :)
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
buzzpaff
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April 4th, 2011 at 4:51:33 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Actually, he's from Truth or Consequences, New Mexico



Note how the R and F are next to each other on the keyboard :)



Actually where the letters are on the keyboard but originally meant to slow down the typist so the striker arms would not jam up.
OOOps showing my age again. remember typewriters ?
AZDuffman
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April 4th, 2011 at 5:00:08 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Actually where the letters are on the keyboard but originally meant to slow down the typist so the striker arms would not jam up.
OOOps showing my age again. remember typewriters ?



Hey, I learned to type on one, am I old?

As long as you also seem to like trivia, after the keys were re-arranged they switched two so salesmen could write "TYPEWRITER" using only the top line.

Is there a correlation betwing knowing this nonsense and being single?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
buzzpaff
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April 4th, 2011 at 5:09:50 PM permalink
You are really old if the last time you played solitaire itwas with a deck of physical cards.
teddys
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April 4th, 2011 at 5:23:18 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

LOL... actually, I found my hometown location, through google, using information I've posted freely here. It wouldn't take much past that to find out the rest.

Scranton, Pa., home of Joe Biden?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
DJTeddyBear
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 4th, 2011 at 6:05:11 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Actually, he's from Truth or Consequences, New Mexico



Note how the R and F are next to each other on the keyboard :)

Yeah, that's why I was ready to let that go.

But confusing Arizona and New Mexico? Only an AZ politician can do that!
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 4th, 2011 at 6:39:18 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Scranton, Pa., home of Joe Biden?



Don't forget "The Office."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Doc
Doc
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April 4th, 2011 at 8:51:26 PM permalink
My wife and I had a small group of our neighbors over this evening for a little socializing, and the young lady from the condo across the hall was the last to leave. She is a private investigator, and the conversation drifted to the topic of on-line security and privacy. I raised the issue of identifying an individual's precise location and identity from an IP address. She said that she was not able to do it herself but that one of her associates had the ability. She said he could also obtain such difficult information as the owner of a post office box and his/her actual residence or business location. She did not know for certain whether he could do it for private mail delivery facilities (e.g., Mail Boxes Etc.).

I mentioned to her the comments in this forum about the need for a signed court order to obtain such information legally. She had a facial expression that I interpreted as, "I don't want to discuss whether all of his methods are strictly legal, but he can get the information when it is necessary." Of course, I could have misread that facial expression, and I didn't think I should press her on such an issue.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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April 4th, 2011 at 9:44:56 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

She said that she was not able to do it herself but that one of her associates had the ability. She said he could also obtain such difficult information as the owner of a post office box and his/her actual residence or business location. She did not know for certain whether he could do it for private mail delivery facilities (e.g., Mail Boxes Etc.).



Your hear people say this all the time. They're either being deluded or they're lying. When I owned the the mail box franchise, I was the the only person, besides the renter himself, who knew what his real name and address were and what box they were renting. There was no 'secret' way to obtain it. It was on a floppy disc (this was the late 80's and early 90's) and locked in a safe. If there was a way to get it, the cops wouldn't have been in there all the time waving their badges around. Its the same for an ISP address. The provider has it and can go to jail for giving it up. The same for the Post Office. Private investigators love to give the impression they can do everything. They can't. Real life isn't like The Rockford Files..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
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