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1 vote (6.25%)
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1 vote (6.25%)
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3 votes (18.75%)
1 vote (6.25%)
5 votes (31.25%)

16 members have voted

thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
March 29th, 2011 at 9:07:53 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

. This man is a pathological fraud, folks, and he's made his living selling bullshit on the internet, so he's no more going to stay away than ducks are going to stop crapping yellow.



I'll not dispute anything else in your post apart from him "making a living selling bullshit on the internet". There's zero evidence (as we have been through this before, repeated times, MKL, so I wish you'd actually stick to the facts as have been presented and accepted by you before) that he has sold any of VP systems to anyone, or anyone has paid for any training. In fact, I don't think I've even seen one other person than Jerry Logan (if he exists) that has done Mr Singer's training.

People shouldn't assign the profit motive for Mr Singer's actions. It tries to explain them in a very very wrong way.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
March 29th, 2011 at 9:31:55 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

I'll not dispute anything else in your post apart from him "making a living selling bullshit on the internet". There's zero evidence (as we have been through this before, repeated times, MKL, so I wish you'd actually stick to the facts as have been presented and accepted by you before) that he has sold any of VP systems to anyone, or anyone has paid for any training. In fact, I don't think I've even seen one other person than Jerry Logan (if he exists) that has done Mr Singer's training.

People shouldn't assign the profit motive for Mr Singer's actions. It tries to explain them in a very very wrong way.



His loathesome book is not free. It's sold on the internet. He also has a website that touts that book.

His video poker methods are certain losers in the long run, so I doubt very much that he makes a living from PLAYING VP--and why bother to post all his bullshit on internet forums if he wasn't touting his system? Some kind of twisted altruism? That might be plausible if he actually believed his own nonsense, but I doubt that he does--only a person who is both ignorant AND a moron would. And I don't think he's either ignorant or a moron--you really can't be a successful fraud if you're either. Though his persistence on this forum (quite possibly the WORST place to try to find converts) suggests a disturbing pathology.

So I do agree to some extent that we have no evidence of anyone paying him for "training", but you have to ask yourself, why did he create this "JerryLogan" fake persona and then make elaborate posts about so-called "training sessions" in Laughlin? Was it just to yank everyone's chain? Or was he hoping that someone would rise to the bait, especially after "JerryLogan" reported massive wins using the magic Singer method?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
RobSinger
RobSinger
Joined: Oct 6, 2010
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 199
March 29th, 2011 at 10:02:51 AM permalink
""Your bravado doesn't actually change the fact that you have presented no evidence upon which to hold a proper debate, in spite of the numerous requests to publish your "machine test results". How can anyone debate the merits of your analyses when you've never actually released them? As for "pathetic excuses", if you'll recall I personally offered not only to debate you, but to disprove one of your rigged-game theories in a live casino setting using real VP machines. The post is still here. Do you remember your response? There wasn't one -- you dropped out of the forum the very same day I offered the challenge. Now that the challenge has been remade, it appears you're dropping out again. The very same day. Is that really how you want to make your second grand exit, leaving a simple question unanswered (again)?""

I should have said to e-mail me because I really don't want to be on a gaming forum--any gaming forum. They're all the same--they are run by people who sell the math and/or who are neurotic about it, they are oblivious to alternate methods unless they're comprised only of simple math, they pat each other on the backs and offer comfort and support when things aren't going so well, they all have their one village idiot very similar to MKL, and by & large you'll find that most of those who run these forums lose at the very game they argue about.

Your arguments are based on illogic. You know I can't possibly type in all the information from the test results required in order to be debated live. It only makes sense to appear with those documents for your review at the time of the debate, as I've repeated several times. Or maybe you'd like UPS to deliver some boxes, but that would require the release of your real name....and horror of horrors if that were to happen.

I dropped off the forum last time after no one here answered a direct question with a direct answer. I asked for a debate, you came up with some stupid conditions because you really didn't want to go through with it, and the usual small troup of followers who couldn't bear to see you embarrassed, began the comforting process by bad-mouthing me and lying about me after I left----just like I read here today again. So a chance to redeem yourself: SET UP A DEBATE WITH AT LEAST A MONTH'S NOTICE, AND I'LL BRING THE PAPERS IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM MAILED FIRST. WE CAN DEBATE ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING RELATED TO VIDEO POKER, AND YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE AS MANY MASTERS WITH YOU AS YOU CHOOSE TO. I WON'T NEED ANYONE.

As for your statement that included: "but to disprove one of your rigged-game theories in a live casino setting using real VP machines." That's funny. I offered to play one or more of my single-play strategy sessions up thru the $100 level as my strategy dictates, and we'd have a good 5-figure bet that I would win. Then suddenly, the jeepers-creepers crowd appeared saying since I have about an 80% chance (it's actually closer to 85%) of winning each session, that'd be a bad bet. It's always the same--first I can't win, then when it's time to back up the words with a bet, I can and it's just not fair. So name your terms.

Rigged games: What rigged games. You know I believe they are not rigged, and it's only those who haven't the experience or motivation to track down what the real deal on the machines is, who say I say they're rigged. So again I ask, how would I go about proving my point on the machines not being random in a casino? What would be the telling parameters of an effort that wouldn't last a few hours at most? Before you go off on your usual tangent claiming you agreed to this and that, think what you're saying before you say it this time.

I'll expect an e-mail with the details of everything I asked for in this post. And if you choose to receive the UPS delivery I'll even send you a book N/C since you still believe I'm somehow into selling them any longer.

If there's any further questions send them to ; rob_singer "at" q.com rob_singer "at" qwest.net or rsinger1111 "at" cox.net
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
March 29th, 2011 at 10:09:56 AM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

I should have said to e-mail me because I really don't want to be on a gaming forum--any gaming forum. They're all the same--they are run by people who sell the math and/or who are neurotic about it, they are oblivious to alternate methods unless they're comprised only of simple math, they pat each other on the backs and offer comfort and support when things aren't going so well, they all have their one village idiot very similar to MKL, and by & large you'll find that most of those who run these forums lose at the very game they argue about.



I thought you were leaving. So, leave.

Of course, if you don't want to do that, I'll simply refer the above personal attack/insult to the Wizard, and that should be sufficient reason for him to ban you if you don't man up and leave like you said you would (for the third time so far).

We don't need you, the gambling community doesn't need you, and the world doesn't need you.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
March 29th, 2011 at 11:19:58 AM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

Your arguments are based on illogic. You know I can't possibly type in all the information from the test results required in order to be debated live.


You don't need to type anything in. Just post your recorded results. You already admitted that you have them in electronic format, so just post that data to your website.
Quote: RobSinger, from yesterday

It was set to simulate hands controlled by the machine's software, and the entire sequence was recorded and can be printed.


A cynic might be thinking that you didn't do any sort of VP hardware testing whatsoever and this whole story about testing and billions of hands is just a tall tale on your part. Tell me this: what were the model numbers of the R&S devices you used to perform your experiments?

Because you don't like the word "rigged", let's use "unfair". I think we can agree that "fair" is defined as "each card has an equal probability of appearing in any position in any hand". You have made some outlandish claims that VP games are not fair, random, and independent, and in fact are intentionally programmed to be unfair, non-random, and non-independent. Your theory that VP games operate within a payback % range "safety net" can be easily tested, but the last time I offered to do so, you dropped out for over two months. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, that doesn't demonstrate a lot of confidence in your theories. Why not let your results speak for themselves, instead of hiding them from scrutiny and berating anyone who doubts them?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
March 29th, 2011 at 11:31:56 AM permalink
I'd be quite happy with a summary of the results and an outline of the test method, including specifications of the test rig used. The raw results (however many pages they are) aren't of interest unless I wanted to analyze them myself. I assume they are in some format not requiring boxes of paper, as at some point, some one must have run some hardcore analysis work to distill them into the results that show the unfairness of the machine in question.

Such a publication would also allow the neophytes enough access to understand if they have the required technical knowledge to really look at the data and methods used.

That would be enough for someone to repeat the experiment itself, and go a way to silence Mr Singer's critics.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1423
  • Posts: 24364
March 29th, 2011 at 11:32:13 AM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

If there's any further questions send them to ; rob_singer "at" q.com rob_singer "at" qwest.net or rsinger1111 "at" cox.net



I took the liberty of changing the @ symbols to "at." You should never put an Email address online. The spam bots will find it and you'll get swamped with Viagara ads.

Since you have at least been fairly respectful of the rules here, I'd like to give you a chance to say a final word, if your manifesto above was not it. I hope there are no hard feelings, but I'm going to have to cut you off after a final post, should you wish to make one.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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