Poll

No votes (0%)
2 votes (12.5%)
1 vote (6.25%)
3 votes (18.75%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (6.25%)
No votes (0%)
3 votes (18.75%)
1 vote (6.25%)
5 votes (31.25%)

16 members have voted

EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
March 28th, 2011 at 5:12:29 PM permalink
Quote: timberjim



Please document a single story about GWB that they turned a blind eye on.



Thats funny. In the last year Bush was in office I stopped watching Fox because of all the Bush bashing there. Alan Colmes and Geraldo and Kristen whats her name and every night, to be fair and balanced, O'Reilly would have on 3 guests to tell us all the mistakes Bush was making. I got sick of it and stopped watching news altogether. Why don't they just air one side like all the other networks, its much easier to watch.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
RobSinger
RobSinger
Joined: Oct 6, 2010
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 199
March 28th, 2011 at 5:18:52 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It does seem simple : you have never provided results of your tests, your methods used to do those tests, you have not provided documentation, only heresay and anecdoctal evidence. The latter two are no more valid than a claim that Obama was born in Kenya based on heresay and supposition. You have written about it, but as you stated earlier, someone writing about something in a newspaper does not make it so.

For someone who writes about the Undeniable Truth, I don't think you've done much to expose the truth or make it undeniable in this case.

Indeed your choice to do what you like with the information so discovered, but you'll have to excuse the rest of the world for considering it a rather far-out claim.



I'm not sure where you read what you're claiming but I'll be happy to set your record straight so you don't make the same mistake again.

First of all, this is not "extraordinary" by any stretch. It's something that's available to the involved person who is motivated to obtain and understand the information, and if you're not a vp professional then you would most certainly not be interested enough to go after it. Certainly, it makes for good rhetoric by anonymous posters on the Internet, where just about anything can be labeled "incredible" and just about anything said by someone else can be labeled an assertion until some sort of proof is presented.

Next, I have indeed offered to have anyone who has the time and ability to follow my many pages of test reports obtained from a Rohde & Schwartz test equipment suite for several billions of hands over several months, to do so, and I have offered to be present at a WoV debate to make it so. And if you remember, ME gave a set of excuses while someone else similarly sweating gave some others. And as I said, these results alone are not absolute proof. You have to play the game, you have to be ultimately aware of what's going on, and you have to have the proper analytical mind to be able to process all the information logically. I have not yet seen that level of dedication from anyone here to date, and unless someone wants to set up that debate where a dozen geniuses from here can go up against me because that's what it'll take to be on even ground, then you can continue to make irresponsible accusations about The Undeniable Truth if you like. And I do believe people like that approach better than the alternative.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
March 28th, 2011 at 5:25:24 PM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

The Undeniable Truth



Funny, capitalizing Horse Shit doesn't give it any more credibility, either...

For that matter, it's neither "Undeniable" (I hereby deny it), nor the "Truth" (it's utter bullcrap).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
March 28th, 2011 at 5:27:09 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

This last statement highlights your fundamental misunderstanding of the concept. "What I've seen as a player" would, for any person, even someone who plays 50 hours a week, be a much too small sample size to draw any meaningful conclusion.


It would also be evidence from "someone on the outside". Singer is a gaming industry patron, just like any other Vegas tourist with a healthy comp balance -- he's a frequent player, not a gaming engineer or anyone with insider knowledge of the field. He also appears to have a faulty understanding of statistics based on his comments. Just go onto any online gaming forum and read all the rantings from new online casino players who will swear up and down that blackjack or roulette or slots are "rigged" -- they even have the player logs to "prove" it. Yet time after time, (with a few notable exceptions), such logs are shown to be statistically well within normal. Online, such logs are easy to get and analyze. Singer doesn't even have those, yet there he is with the exact same complaint. A basic statistics class would clear up his misunderstandings, but admitting he's wrong won't do much for his book sales.

Singer's suggestion idea that the Wizard is somehow out of his league on the topic of VP is just asinine and, I might add, reasonably insulting considering both the source and target. Several of the members of this forum, Wizard included, have worked for or with casino game vendors and know exactly what they're talking about. Still more have worked for casino operators (including you, as I've read in the past). Without fail, every single one of the actual industry professionals here has disputed Singer's claims. That's not something to be dismissed lightly, yet there he is, doing exactly that. I even offered to do a live debunk of one of his crackpot theories -- the one that VP hands aren't independently and randomly dealt but instead the whole machine operates within a payback percentage "safety net" -- but right about then he conveniently dropped out of the forum for a while. The offer still stands...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
timberjim
timberjim
Joined: Dec 5, 2009
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 398
March 28th, 2011 at 5:32:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't wish to debate what is plainly obvious to me. Go ahead and claim victory if you wish; I don't really care.
.



I understand that you are unable to debate this. I just didn't expect it to be so easy. Lets move on.
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
March 28th, 2011 at 5:34:34 PM permalink
I'd request the Wizard splits the Thread off about VP... I'd like to reply to Mr Singer's last post without muddying up a debate about the POTUS and FOX.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
March 28th, 2011 at 5:37:51 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

I'd request the Wizard splits the Thread off about VP... I'd like to reply to Mr Singer's last post without muddying up a debate about the POTUS and FOX.



Remember oh, so long ago, when the thread was about Libya?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
March 28th, 2011 at 5:38:03 PM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

Next, I have indeed offered to have anyone who has the time and ability to follow my many pages of test reports obtained from a Rohde & Schwartz test equipment suite for several billions of hands over several months, to do so, and I have offered to be present at a WoV debate to make it so.



1) No you haven't. You just said you hooked up the equipment and you have results, from which you've drawn your own unverifiable conclusions. If you really wanted to present your findings in a valid, reviewable manner, you'd just post them publicly and let the interested public take a look. Why haven't you done that?

2) It is physically impossible to play "billions of hands" over "several months" on a VP machine. Consider that at 1 hand per second, which is several times faster than even the fastest human can play, a player on a machine full time 24x7 can play 31.5 *million* hands in a year. It would take over 30 years of non-stop play to play a billion hands at that rate. If you're going to make up numbers out of whole cloth, you should at least make them remotely plausible.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
March 28th, 2011 at 5:46:24 PM permalink
Quote: timberjim

I understand that you are unable to debate this. I just didn't expect it to be so easy. Lets move on.



Taking a swipe and then saying "let's move on" is a kind of childish tactic. I doubt very much that the Wiz is, as you say, "unable" to debate the biased or nonbiased nature of Fox News; I do believe what he actually said, was that he was disinclined to do so. For what it's worth, I don't think Fox is as he claims, but he's entitled to his opinion--"handling GWB with kid gloves" could mean, in the Wiz's POV, that they didn't continually compare him to the Antichrist, or blame him for every single problem in the universe (as the rest of the mainstream media did)--which would be a wee bit unfair, but so what?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1428
  • Posts: 24479
March 28th, 2011 at 6:32:05 PM permalink
All posts regarding the natural born citizenship status of Obama, McCain, and the Korean cafeteria worker have been moved to Natural Born Citizenship.

I may do other splits for Fox News and video poker if those go much further.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

  • Jump to: