Poll

6 votes (30%)
2 votes (10%)
No votes (0%)
12 votes (60%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)

20 members have voted

P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
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March 11th, 2011 at 7:47:08 AM permalink
Sure, I hope they include Waterboarding in the next Summer Olympics. It sounds like a great sport with a lot of potential.
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Yoyomama
Yoyomama
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March 11th, 2011 at 8:33:40 AM permalink
He told us what he thought we wanted to hear from polling. He's a politician that wants to get elected. Like most politicians, they are so arrogant and narcissistic he probably thought he could do whatever he wants. They are usually short on details when making such statements. But after they've been elected who cares!! They can have the job as long as they like once they're in.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman 
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March 11th, 2011 at 8:51:24 AM permalink
Quote: P90

Sure, I hope they include Waterboarding in the next Summer Olympics. It sounds like a great sport with a lot of potential.



Our own troops get waterboarded during training so I don't see the problem. More so if it saves lives, which it did.
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Wavy70
Wavy70
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March 11th, 2011 at 9:12:14 AM permalink
Would you feel better with McCain who depending upon the crowd he was speaking to would call for the closing of Gitmo and the following day call for it to stay open during his campaign?
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Yoyomama
Yoyomama
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March 11th, 2011 at 9:25:15 AM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

Would you feel better with McCain who depending upon the crowd he was speaking to would call for the closing of Gitmo and the following day call for it to stay open during his campaign?



I stopped listening to McCain a long time ago. I was also not surprised when he recently told reporters that iPhones & iPads were Made in USA!!! These politicians that stay in office for decades for no apparent reason need to get a life. They just feel they are so important and the world needs them. Plus they get their egos stroked daily!
P90
P90
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March 11th, 2011 at 10:01:03 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Our own troops get waterboarded during training so I don't see the problem.


They aren't. Torture resistance is part of SERE program only undertaken by a select fraction of the military, mostly special forces.
The problem with torture is that there isn't any line between using it on enemy soldiers only and just plain using it.

However, the idea behind Gitmo isn't even about torture. Torture is already little short of mainstream. The idea of Gitmo is establishing a practice of shipping prisoners offshore to bypass laws and restrictions protecting human rights.

Worst-case scenario, well within our lifetimes, the ideas of Common Law, Miranda rights, option of trial in open court can end up being limited to the realm of little more than shoplifters and DUIs. Offshore detention, quick confession and trial by Troikas are so much more streamlined and reliable for people we want imprisoned. All you need to do is be a suspected terrorist, and if suspected terrorists deserve it, why not suspected murderers and suspected child molesters. Not-so-worst-case scenario, the entrance barrier to offshore "tough justice" treadmills remains higher, but still within a normal person's reach.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman 
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March 11th, 2011 at 10:18:04 AM permalink
Quote: P90


However, the idea behind Gitmo isn't even about torture. Torture is already little short of mainstream. The idea of Gitmo is establishing a practice of shipping prisoners offshore to bypass laws and restrictions protecting human rights. Well within our lifetimes, the ideas of Common Law, Miranda rights, option of trial in open court can end up being limited to the realm of little more than shoplifters and DUIs. Offshore detention, quick confession and trial by Troikas are so much more streamlined and reliable for people we want imprisoned. All you need to do is be a suspected terrorist, and if suspected terrorists deserve it, why not suspected murderers, suspected child molesters and suspected dissenters.



This is where liberals like yourself make no sense. Miranda Rights as well as right to trial are a civillian right. Fighting terrorists is a military matter. Did we give the Nazis we caught a civillian trial? If Miranda was law then, would we have said to Hitler (had he not killed himself) that he had a right to an attorney? And how do you think these guys were caught? Do you think they just happened to be walking down the street and we took them off to Gitmo?
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
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March 11th, 2011 at 10:22:52 AM permalink
I agree with AZDuffman ... that rant is pretty weird and divorced from reality on the level of Ted Kaczynski, Charles Manson, Charlie Sheen, etc. I hope you merely didn't like GWB and don't really believe all that insanity?
Calder
Calder
Joined: Mar 26, 2010
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March 11th, 2011 at 10:27:06 AM permalink
Like the last few democratic presidents, he wanted the job so he could remake America into what he wanted, and considered foreign policy a nuisance. The Gitmo promise was a bone thrown to the loyal left, and once adults explained the consequences of closing the prison, he sensibly did the right thing, and reneged.
P90
P90
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March 11th, 2011 at 10:43:24 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

This is where liberals like yourself make no sense.


I'm not a liberal. I'm a right-wing libertarian.


Quote: AZDuffman

If Miranda was law then, would we have said to Hitler (had he not killed himself) that he had a right to an attorney?


Is it your belief that military criminals should not have the right to an attorney? If so, could you explain your reasoning - why is it wrong for people accused of military crimes to be represented?

The accused in Nuremberg trials *were* represented by defense attorneys. Yes, if Hitler was there, he would have an attorney as well.


Quote: AZDuffman

And how do you think these guys were caught? Do you think they just happened to be walking down the street and we took them off to Gitmo?


Sometimes it was pretty close to that. Or someone pointed a finger, and there you go. There's no trial, no chance to prove yourself innocent, no conviction, no term to serve, just four walls and indefinite time.

I'm amazed at how nonchalantly you apply the presumption of guilt.
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