Smart Meter Bill Avalanche

New smart meters have been installed and within 1 to 3 months electric bills have doubled or tripled or more. Customer service from NYSEG is non-existent.
This will be financial ruin for all severely affected.
I just got a new smart meter at the beginning of 2025 and don't have a problem yet, but the rates for distribution and supply have crept up a few cents to the point it's more than a 50% increase in rates from last summer. I'm told natural gas has doubled in price so any power plants running on that to make electricity would double the electricity rates. This is before factoring in Canada and their leaving the US market which is still ahead. I know other states have much higher rates than I do, and other parts of the state do too. I'm in like some protected zone of low prices for now. But surrounding states have sounded the alarm for doubling and tripling prices unrelated to smart meter installations for the past year.
I have no idea what the electric bills of casinos and stores are, but this will hurt their bottom line, and everybody who works for them.

NYSEG Customers Face High Bills
https://wjffradio.org/nyseg-customers-face-high-bills-as-officials-demand-answers/

'I can't afford it': NYSEG customers leave smart meter open house with mixed emotions - WKBW, Buffalo, NY Sep 27, 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQilknDyCJs

Have the rates gone up? If so, that's a regulatory issue. As the new smart meters more accurate in metering actual usage? If so, oh well.

In the UK they have old imperial meters and new metric meters. So metric meters would be installed but the supplier would forget to switch their notation at the company from imperial to metric and usage went up by 2.83X, but that's for gas meters.

Mismatch of units in the energy sector has led to thousands of billing errors
https://metricviews.uk/2023/12/24/mismatch-of-units-in-the-energy-sector-has-led-to-thousands-of-billing-errors/

"Smart" meter usually means there's a variable rate based on demand. Scammy, because you have no way to know or predict the demand.

The increase in gas prices seems to me to be due mostly to events in Eastern Europe and when that is over, so will be the restricted supply of gas.

9 hours ago: NYSEG launches 'Usage Alerts' which it says can help customers manage usage, lower bills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMABUyyor4

I saw one news story where a woman was using 75 kwhr per day 11 months before, then the new meter arrived recently and it's been ramping up quickly to over 100 kwhr above the 75 previously. The bill after that was even higher and over $1300 for the month. I don't even know what would use an extra 100 kwhr per day. A computer? No dummy, it's the stupid smart meter.

I just signed up for notifications sent to my phone.
1) We’ll send you a weekly alert with your usage during your current billing period.
2) We'll notify you of big changes to your daily usage. Specifically, if your daily usage is 50% higher or 75% lower than your past 30-day average usage for three days in a row.
3) Set a limit amount and we’ll send you an alert when you exceed that limit during your current billing period. (I set it for 600 kwhr/month)

Maybe the smart meter more accurately and precisely records usage?

Time for a customer to bust out a Kill-A-Watt and do some investigating.

A few people have had their supposedly erroneous meters checked by the power company with a tester and they checked out OK. It doesn't make sense. Of course if the testers are being told to lie to the customers, that's just another thing coming.

Quote: GenoDRPh

Maybe the smart meter more accurately and precisely records usage?

Time for a customer to bust out a Kill-A-Watt and do some investigating.
link to original post

Good idea. It could be an inductive load problem.
(Consumer level description of that problem: https://www.kele.com/content/blog/2013/10/04/what-are-power-system-vars )

I would guess that if that's the case the original meters are correct.

I think motors: like washing machines, dryers, refrigerators, and fans and air conditioners could be spinning these meters faster than usual with their off-phase usage. But these bills just spiral out of sight as the months roll on, it's a compounding problem. Even next to no usage gives large bills, and ever bigger bills months later and it says the usage was way up on the bill.
All these meters are connected together with their wireless networks to feed the main office. Maybe there is something tangled and tripping these meters into an overload condition and spinning them faster. A whole neighborhood has runaway meters.

Quote: ChumpChange

I think motors: like washing machines, dryers, refrigerators, and fans and air conditioners could be spinning these meters faster than usual with their off-phase usage. But these bills just spiral out of sight as the months roll on, it's a compounding problem. Even next to no usage gives large bills, and ever bigger bills months later and it says the usage was way up on the bill.
All these meters are connected together with their wireless networks to feed the main office. Maybe there is something tangled and tripping these meters into an overload condition and spinning them faster. A whole neighborhood has runaway meters.
link to original post

Is it that the unit cost has gone up, or maybe the standing charge, if you have such a thing? Or are you saying that your meter or other peoples' meters are showing unusually increased usage? An increase in Air Con usage as the summer approaches?

It should be easy enough to find out if the higher bills are because of higher unit charges. That would be inflation, so it can't be that, because there is no inflation. If there IS inflation, which your executive branch of federal government has taken credit for eliminating, then maybe the energy price increase has been countered by the cost of some other consumer spending such as groceries,


As someone else said, if your usage has gone up, it's a cinch to get a plug in wattmeter and determine which devices are using it.

If your supplier has bad customer service, maybe there is some sort of federal agency that will hold them to account. Or gather your evidence and take them to court.

Incidentally the 'wrong units' issue in the UK was very minor and only affected a very small number of homes.

Did you know that if you have a smartmeter, your supplier ( or probably some Chinese hacker ) can disconnect your supply remotely.

Quote: ChumpChange

... the rates for distribution and supply have crept up a few cents to the point it's more than a 50% increase in rates from last summer. I'm told natural gas has doubled in price so any power plants running on that to make electricity would double the electricity rates. This is before factoring in Canada and their leaving the US market which is still ahead. I know other states have much higher rates than I do, and other parts of the state do too. I'm in like some protected zone of low prices for now. But surrounding states have sounded the alarm for doubling and tripling prices unrelated to smart meter installations for the past year.
I have no idea what the electric bills of casinos and stores are, but this will hurt their bottom line, and everybody who works for them.


link to original post

It's either smart meter issues or price increase ( ESCO (Energy Services Company) unit prices, or NYSEG delivery prices). This thread seems to be conflating the two issues.

Isn't the rate determined by supply and demand? Does state or federal government claim to have any control over this price inflation, through regulation, or management of international prices? I seem to recall someone saying there is no inflation, so it can't be that.

Quote: ChumpChange

I saw one news story where a woman was using 75 kwhr per day 11 months before, then the new meter arrived recently and it's been ramping up quickly to over 100 kwhr above the 75 previously. The bill after that was even higher and over $1300 for the month. I don't even know what would use an extra 100 kwhr per day. A computer? No dummy, it's the stupid smart meter.
link to original post

an extra 100kWhr in a day would be something like a 4kW device. That's something as significant as a room heater or maybe te AC just came on for summer?

The story is just one anecdote. so much confusion popping out of this thread about whether its unit cost or metered usage to blame.

One of the joys with a smart meter is that you should be able to see your actual real time and recent usage on a supplier's website. Then you'll see, for example, what ambient usage is happening at night. I discovered a few left on devices using that info.

Quote: ChumpChange

it's a compounding problem.

How is it?

Quote:

A whole neighborhood has runaway meters.
link to original post

Not maybe that a whole neighbourhood has the same climate? or the same issue with a previous manual meter reader who didn't do his job properly?


Are smart meters really a new thing there? They are pretty much fully addopted here in the UK where we used to have quarterly to annual manual meter reading, or customer self reading or ESTIMATED readings. I did personally have an issue where the meter reading guy was just making up readings off the top of his head. was a PITA to resolve.

One UK video showed an Octopus device for the Octopus utility that hooks up to your phone by bluetooth and to your wi-fi and it can give you half hour updates on your energy usage. I'm sure if something like that was available here, some of the shocked users might be able to pin down some discrepancies in their unplugged house usage versus their meter spinning away; or isolate a few appliances over-spinning the meter. I kind of expect the air conditioner to use say 3 Kw/hr instead of 1.5 kw/hr because it has a motor, so my summer bill would go up more than expected. I don't know yet. It could just be an issue with faulty meters which I don't have or haven't had experience with yet.

Distribution and supply charges are creeping up in my part of the state, so that will drive bills higher and it is part of the outrage; but the over-spinning meters seems to be taking the smart meter stage. Smart meters are being introduced in my state, how long, it could be since last summer or the past 2 years. When tiny little towns fill up town halls to confront the utility CEO, there's a problem. I know I visited a house sometime around 2006 about 50 miles from here that had a smart meter, so they've been around some areas for quite awhile and should have been replaced again by now. Most of what I know are the spinning wheel meters that have been around longer than I've been alive that are finally being replaced.

Quote: ChumpChange

One UK video showed an Octopus device for the Octopus utility that hooks up to your phone by bluetooth and to your wi-fi and it can give you half hour updates on your energy usage.

For ALL UK smartmeter installations, an 'In Home Display' is provided which gives real time usage stats and costs. Updated every few seconds. They also feature usage threshold alerts. So, for example, we can see how much energy is used at night, where there's maybe only the odd device working and we can see the cost of any kettle or white goods usage.

Quote:

I kind of expect the air conditioner to use say 3 Kw/hr instead of 1.5 kw/hr because it has a motor, so my summer bill would go up more than expected.

. here we don't use air-con, so our cost is winter heating.

Get a US equivalent of one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396269770928 and test each device for a while.

Quote:

Distribution and supply charges are creeping up in my part of the state, so that will drive bills higher and it is part of the outrage

We don't pay distribution costs directly. They are absorbed by our energy retailers.

Quote:

link to original post

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: GenoDRPh

Maybe the smart meter more accurately and precisely records usage?

Time for a customer to bust out a Kill-A-Watt and do some investigating.
link to original post

Good idea. It could be an inductive load problem.
(Consumer level description of that problem: https://www.kele.com/content/blog/2013/10/04/what-are-power-system-vars )

I would guess that if that's the case the original meters are correct.
link to original post

It could be an inductive load issue, or it could be wild load imbalance on the split legs.

I know that at the factory, back in the day, we had to be careful to load the phases fairly evenly, or there were stupid increases in cost.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: GenoDRPh

Maybe the smart meter more accurately and precisely records usage?

Time for a customer to bust out a Kill-A-Watt and do some investigating.
link to original post

Good idea. It could be an inductive load problem.
(Consumer level description of that problem: https://www.kele.com/content/blog/2013/10/04/what-are-power-system-vars )

I would guess that if that's the case the original meters are correct.
link to original post

It could be an inductive load issue, or it could be wild load imbalance on the split legs.

I know that at the factory, back in the day, we had to be careful to load the phases fairly evenly, or there were stupid increases in cost.
link to original post

This is all residential though. Can't recall seeing 3-phase in a house. A system like that would be totally unacceptable in a house due to the huge draws of electric ranges and stuff like that, and none of that is 3-phase. So there's no practical way to split up the load.

dont forget america always allows you to steal. try to illegally hook things up to get one over on the man. those pesky data miners are always trying to create monetary dependencies on anything they can get their hooks on. sure you may be arrested. but, you tried and you will be provided with 3 hots and cot for your ambitions. dont worry america will take care of you no matter what.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: GenoDRPh

Maybe the smart meter more accurately and precisely records usage?

Time for a customer to bust out a Kill-A-Watt and do some investigating.
link to original post

Good idea. It could be an inductive load problem.
(Consumer level description of that problem: https://www.kele.com/content/blog/2013/10/04/what-are-power-system-vars )

I would guess that if that's the case the original meters are correct.
link to original post

It could be an inductive load issue, or it could be wild load imbalance on the split legs.

I know that at the factory, back in the day, we had to be careful to load the phases fairly evenly, or there were stupid increases in cost.
link to original post

This is all residential though. Can't recall seeing 3-phase in a house. A system like that would be totally unacceptable in a house due to the huge draws of electric ranges and stuff like that, and none of that is 3-phase. So there's no practical way to split up the load.
link to original post

Right, but it is single phase 240 split, usually.
It is very possible that one of the legs has a lot more stuff plugged in than the other, just by random happenstance.

The good news is that an electrician can probably do some probing with a clamp ammeter and move a few wires or breakers onto the other leg fairly quickly.