FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 16th, 2010 at 5:49:38 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

So does that mean the entire line of Bellagio chips is now out of commission, not just the specific ones that were stolen?

I've no idea what the Bellagio has actually done, I only know what the Gaming regs require them to be able to do. I would see no reason to switch any chips other than the denomination that was stolen. They will still say Bellagio on them but they will be markedly different, if the second set was switched in. Its Bellagio's decision, the regs only require that casinos have two full sets of chips on the premises, one of course is kept in the vault or something. The regs are in force mainly to allow a casino to do a complete switch but not to require them to do it. I think the idea is that even if you switch only the stolen denomination you have the ability to get identification from anyone turning them in. At the end of World War Two France called in all its Old Francs and issued New Francs, but anyone who turned in a large amount of currency would be investigated as a potential wartime black marketeer and potential collaborator. At the time, French women who had fraternized with German soldiers were having their heads publicly shaved. French males who were thought to have collaborated were receiving a gift of a free bullet from former resistance fighters. This may have inhibited people from turning in all those ill gotten gains.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
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December 16th, 2010 at 6:21:30 AM permalink
What would of been funny was if the robber had a secret accomplice, whom he passed the bag to once outside the casino in a camera dead ground spot, who then walked in and passed some of the larger denominations to a third accomplice who had been sitting at said craps table, and then cashed them out before the whole situation resolved.

Imagine the casino manager walking back into the casino slightly out of breath after trying to chase the guy on the motorcycle, ordering the RFID tag numbers of the stolen chips, then realising that the chips were already back in the cage.....
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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December 16th, 2010 at 6:39:07 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

MGM Detroit's $1000 and $5000 chips do not have this technology. They are as standard as the $1 and $5 chips except they are oversized.


How do you know this?
thlf
thlf
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
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December 16th, 2010 at 6:56:39 AM permalink
What about doing a check change at a craps table where the RFIDs aren't installed. The chips wouldn't then be discovered until they were taken by security. I doubt that all of the tables would have an RFID reader installed to know that the chips are worthless. So, say, checking a purple chip might not get noticed.

I thought the original purposes of RFID was for player tracking and to prevent cheating. I believe they can read the chips at the tables.
SlangNRox
SlangNRox
Joined: Jul 19, 2010
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December 16th, 2010 at 9:02:03 AM permalink
What exactly did the MGM Grand do after that Tyson Hoylfield fight? I thought that bringing down the house book said that they changed the chips since the MIT blackjack team was scrambling trying to cash them in.
mkdc
mkdc
Joined: Dec 11, 2009
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December 20th, 2010 at 1:22:50 PM permalink
Has anyone actually verified that the Bellagio changed all their chips. I seriously doubt that -- just seems like a big deal for $1m or so, considering they normally change about every 5-10 years or so (if that often).

A few thoughts:

1) It is urban legend (perpetuated by stupid casino signs) that you can't change chips at other casinos. Bellagio chips, even $25k Bellagio chips, are good money at every casino in Vegas. They will just need an ID and to verify you don't owe Bellagio any markers. If you are a known player at the casino you are trying to exchange chips at, this process takes about 5 minutes or less.

2) I understand the chips are RFID tagged but I am not at all convinced that the Bellagio knows WHICH chips were stolen. They can, perhaps, quickly inventory all $25k chips they have in their possession and put a flag/warning on all the other ones. But I don't think they can just automatically deactivate/flag the exact chips stolen. I think that articles/statements to the contrary are bullshit.

3) I think this guy could get value for those chips if he sold them to someone that was a known high limit player at Bellagio. If you have a track record at Bellagio and stroll in with those chips, I think you get paid.

4) All cashouts under $3000 happen without significant ID checks, so the yellows and below are easily changed to cash IMO.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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December 20th, 2010 at 2:23:39 PM permalink
Just about any casino will accept Foreign Cheques and that will be the phrase called out when the dealer is offered them. "Foreign Cheques" simply means from a different casino. The Box will say to the player... sure but lets have all of them now. (No piecemeal buyins of their casino chips or trying to sneak them in during a hectic roll). The casinos are happy to take your money ... they know "the edge" is in their favor. Foreign Chips are segregated at the Hard Count room and kept aside, usually for seven days, but ALL such chips go into the drop box at the table.

IF the checks had RFID chips the casino knows every one that was at the table and everyone that after the robbery was not at the table.

Chips would have to be passed really fast ... and probably were or else the guy was an idiot.

A known big player had better not get involved in passing them or he will get known for a different reason at every casino in town, even if it can't be proven.
silversonic2006
silversonic2006
Joined: May 12, 2010
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December 21st, 2010 at 4:38:15 PM permalink
Has anyone seen the "new" Bellagio chips? I guess they look a lot different than the set that had been in play...
bgriffin
bgriffin
Joined: Feb 9, 2010
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December 22nd, 2010 at 9:54:40 PM permalink
Quote: mkdc

Has anyone actually verified that the Bellagio changed all their chips. I seriously doubt that -- just seems like a big deal for $1m or so, considering they normally change about every 5-10 years or so (if that often).

A few thoughts:

1) It is urban legend (perpetuated by stupid casino signs) that you can't change chips at other casinos. Bellagio chips, even $25k Bellagio chips, are good money at every casino in Vegas. They will just need an ID and to verify you don't owe Bellagio any markers. If you are a known player at the casino you are trying to exchange chips at, this process takes about 5 minutes or less.

2) I understand the chips are RFID tagged but I am not at all convinced that the Bellagio knows WHICH chips were stolen. They can, perhaps, quickly inventory all $25k chips they have in their possession and put a flag/warning on all the other ones. But I don't think they can just automatically deactivate/flag the exact chips stolen. I think that articles/statements to the contrary are bullshit.

3) I think this guy could get value for those chips if he sold them to someone that was a known high limit player at Bellagio. If you have a track record at Bellagio and stroll in with those chips, I think you get paid.

4) All cashouts under $3000 happen without significant ID checks, so the yellows and below are easily changed to cash IMO.



I think this line of thinking hits the robber's only real possible paths to profit--the biggest risk the Bellagio sees in this robbery is that they turn down someone who is legitimately trying to cash in old chips for whatever reason (forgot to cash them last time they left Vegas or whatever). The casino can probably take care of most of it by simply requesting ID from anyone trying to cash the now-discontinued design of chips, and watching for suspiciously large transactions, but they're not going to start rejecting people's cash-ins left and right, or hauling people to the police for cashing in chips, for fear of the bad publicity. Even if Bellagio was able to cancel the RFID tags in the old set of chips, I'd be quite sure that the casino did not have knowledge of the exact serial number chips that were sitting at the particular table that got robbed.
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
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December 22nd, 2010 at 11:11:34 PM permalink
Two words.
Casino War.
Even if they saw him playing it they might just let him play the stack. It would be quicker than calling the cops.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.

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