Very Questionable Advertising

Quote: tuttigym

Or you could admit that your statement was not flat out 100% correct. The body holds some and doesn't hold others. Your blanket statement was incorrect, or at best -partially correct....My statement was more correct than incorrect, 4 vitamins vs all the rest plus the huge number of supplements taken and/or available.

My statement was only that yours was wrong. And yours was wrong, because it was a blanket statement. So, my statement was 100% correct. As for yours, there's no such thing as "more correct than incorrect", because it's a binary: The way you stated it, it's either true or it's not, and it's definitely not. As for my competence in this matter, I did go to the final round in the state debate championships, but really, what I'm trying to explain is obvious to everyone.

Well, almost everyone. It would reflect better on you if you were able to admit your error.

Quote: tuttigym

My statement was more correct than incorrect, 4 vitamins vs all the rest plus the huge number of supplements....

And that's also dead wrong, and in multiple ways. First of all I cited more than four vitamins, I cited four *classes* of vitamins. (e.g, K1, K2)

Second, the four vitamin classes I cited was simply to disprove your incorrect blanket statement that "your body does NOT store excess vitamins or supplements". But in fact, there are OTHER vitamin/minerals that are stored by the body, it's not limited to those four classes.

So, by saying "4 vitamins vs all the rest plus the huge number of supplements", you're wrong again. Will you admit it this time?

Quote: BoSox

So I have no idea the length of time that I have taken only 50% of the dosage. This seems very fraudulent advertising to me, as well as illegal. Any Opinions?

I am curious about what damages could be claimed from this deception.

MichaelBluejay, please stop using personal and argumentative language directed at tuttigym. He is suspended 3 days and not here to defend himself. You may resume addressing him after his suspension is over.

Quote: gordonm888

MichaelBluejay, please stop using personal and argumentative language directed at tuttigym. He is suspended 3 days and not here to defend himself. You may resume addressing him after his suspension is over.

link to original post

I was content to wait for the reply, but if you prefer, you can delete my posts and I can repost them after his suspension ends.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I was content to wait for the reply, but if you prefer, you can delete my posts and I can repost them after his suspension ends.

link to original post

I don't think trying to unring the bell would be an improvement.

I mix turmeric, cinnamon, paprika, nutritional yeast, cumin, fresh ground black pepper, and 4 tablespoons of Mexican hot sauce for the capsaicin in with my breakfast every morning. These are all super high in anti-inflammatories and antioxidants. I take a fish-oil capsule a garlic capsule a multivitamin, vitamin C, vitamin B and most importantly Co Q10. I eat a can of sardines everyday. Sardines are another SuperFood. I also eat 8 raw almonds + 5 half walnuts mixed in with my breakfast food. I read an article by doctor who eats 5 cans of sardines a day and claims his blood work is off the charts because of it. Sardines are very high in important Omega-3 fatty oils.

Let me preface the following by saying that I know very little about vitamins. I'm taking no side on the prior debate.

That said, if it were up to me, I would take almost no vitamins. My doctor said I'm low on vitamin D. I probably should take a vitamin for that, but I seldom remember. I'm out in the sun a lot this time of year, but probably should take it seriously when the days get shorter.

Getting to my point, Mrs Wizard is big on vitamins. She sometimes puts about several for me to take. I've noticed after I do, my urine is very dark yellow. I assume the vitamins are just passing through me. I guess my question is do people who are in good health need to be on a course of several daily vitamins?

Quote: Wizard

My doctor said I'm low on vitamin D.

It you're 20-29 you might not be deficient. The reference range on the vitamin D tests is controversial. It lists <30 as deficient, however:

* In 2010 the Institute of Medicine reviewed 1000 studies on 25 health outcomes and put the deficiency figure at <20.

* A Denmark study showed the lower risk of dying was for people who had 20-24.

* The position statement of various UK health organizations is 25+.

And there's some evidence for 30+, as well. There's just not consensus that <30 is deficient. The labs had to put *something* on the reference range, so they chose 30 for some reason.

There's definitely consensus that <20 is deficient, though, so if you're below that, I'd supplement.

Quote:

I've noticed after I do, my urine is very dark yellow. I assume the vitamins are just passing through me.

You're not seeing the portion that might have been absorbed.

Quote:

I guess my question is do people who are in good health need to be on a course of several daily vitamins?

You ask about "vitamins" but there are lots of supplements besides vitamins and even minerals that have been shown to be beneficial (e.g., DHA).

In any event, at least one study showed that the typical person is deficient in seven vitamins and minerals. They can't all easily be tested, sometimes they determine inadequate intake by tabulating food diaries.

There's definitely a risk of taking too much with most supplements. ConsumerLab lists the UTL (upper tolerable limit) when one has been established. I make sure for whatever I'm taking I'm well below UTL, especially once I consider what I'm getting from food.

My dailies are:

• C (general health)
• K2 (bones, arteries)
• calcium citrate powder (GERD)
• magnesium (heart health; deficiency common)
• enzymes (ulcerative colitis)
• DHA (deficiency common)
• Aged Garlic Extract (elevated triglycerides)
• Chance Piedra, Quercetin, Tart Cherry Extract (gout)

In addition, 1-3x/week I take
• B12 (over 50, deficiency common, vegan)
• D, Iron, Zinc, Small multivitamin (general health)

If vitamins are going to make me live longer, why would I take them?

Quote: MichaelBluejay

It you're 20-29 you might not be deficient....link to original post

Thank you for the information and advice. It was so good that I can't think of anything to add or ask.

Two years ago, my then Doctor said I was Vitamin D deficient and prescribed this horse pill I was supposed to take once a week.
The pharmacy had to special order it and in the meantime, I started taking an OTC Vitamin D3 pill that gave me 5,000 IUs daily. It cost less than $10 for a year's supply. The prescription drug was $52 a month, of which I would have paid either $5 or $10. I canceled that order. My new labs showed I was no longer deficient but I continue to take the OTC supplements. Being a night creature, I don't get the sun that I once did.

Quote: Marcusclark66

Quote: Mission146

Good gravy!

Can you post a picture of what I take daily for me? Just remove everything from that piece of furniture and take a picture of it.

link to original post

Why is it MDawg always gets challenged?

Why is it he has to prove certain things?

Like the majority of other posts by countless members, if you don't agree or side with them, you generally just move on, not challenge them with the same intense redundancy you do with MDawg? (At least that is what I have seen and observed here)

Thank you,
Marcus Clark

link to original post

Rest assured, I strongly believe that no one on the board would be excluded from being challenged for making claims that repeatedly defy sound mathematical principles. Whereby claims of winning daily sessions at very high percentage rates going on for an extended length of time. The bottom line here is the more defying nature of the claim the more the claim will be challenged without any prejudice involved.

To answer the Wizard, if you have a reasonably full and balanced diet, you do not ‘need’ supplemental vitamins. My diet is so variable, in that I may go a long time not eating ‘right’, that I now take a daily multivitamin ‘just in case’. Risk…. close to zero. Benefit…. probably close to zero but not as close….

Quote: SOOPOO

To answer the Wizard, if you have a reasonably full and balanced diet, you do not ‘need’ supplemental vitamins. My diet is so variable, in that I may go a long time not eating ‘right’, that I now take a daily multivitamin ‘just in case’. Risk…. close to zero. Benefit…. probably close to zero but not as close….

link to original post

You would have to have a medical condition, be a Vegan or somthing wacky like that to not get enough vitamins.

But hey, feel free to load up on Vitamin C, I hear it's great for the common cold, and you wouldn't want to get scurvy.

Quote: SOOPOO

To answer the Wizard, if you have a reasonably full and balanced diet, you do not ‘need’ supplemental vitamins.

That's what the schools teach, but it ignores the facts that deficiencies are *common*, and that many supplements have been shown to have beneficial effects in preventing and treating disease.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

That's what the schools teach, but it ignores the facts that deficiencies are *common*, and that many supplements have been shown to have beneficial effects in preventing and treating disease.

link to original post

Even if the science isn't completely reproduceable, enough people feel enough better when taking a multivitamin to justify the 21 cents^* a day in spend, even if it might be for a placebo.

The schools may be right too, with the ubiquity of enriched rice and flour fighting basic vitamin deficiencies. Maybe you don't get so malnourished you die, but maybe you'd feel better with more riboflavin, too.


^*Probably a little more if you have a dozen bottles from a vitamin boutique.

I used to take melatonin on a regular basis, and just about everything I've read about says most people don't produce enough of it.

Quote: AxelWolf

[Unless you are deficient in something(as was pointed out, a common one is vitiman D) you dont need to be taking a bunch of vitamans. You can eat fairly crappy here in the USA and get evrything you need]

How has this nutritional philosophy been working out for you?

Haven't you had _{redacted by admin}

My understanding is that you are also _{redacted by admin}


Are you dismissing an enriched diet, including nutritional supplements, as a scam?

Anecdotally, I attribute the size and health of my family members to an enriched diet.

Quote: coachbelly

Quote: AxelWolf

[Unless you are deficient in something(as was pointed out, a common one is vitiman D) you dont need to be taking a bunch of vitamans. You can eat fairly crappy here in the USA and get evrything you need]

How has this nutritional philosophy been working out for you?

link to original post

Eating unhealthy can cause all kinds of problems. What I said... You can eat fairly crappy here in the USA and get everything you need" Obvious, I was talking about vitamins if you followed the conversation.

I never suggested anyone eat unhealthily or that I do.
I eat normal food, 75% or more is home-cooked using "fresh" ingredients like... steak, shrimp(not fresh), chicken, mushrooms, onions, asparagus, tomatoes, fruits, homemade soup, and lots of avocados's, etc. I also eat frozen pizza, lasagna, or whatever the heck I feel like because that's what I feel like eating. I do get fast food when I am out and about being busy if I get hungry. Unfortunately, I consume sweets, too much soda/ juice, and I don't drink enough water. I don't eat anything just because it's healthy, and I don't avoid anything because it's unhealthy. I eat whatever I like, wherever I like.

Any prior or current health issues are not related to my diet. I just had a full workup and labs done...everything was great. I take zero pills or supplements, at my age that's not bad, all things considered(I should be dead 3 times over). I had some major stomach surgeries years ago that does hinder my ability to gain weight, limit the amount of food I can eat at once, and cause occasional issues.

Quote: coachbelly

Haven't you had _{redacted by admin}

My understanding is that you are also _{redacted by admin}

link to original post

Warning: Many of our members consider this type of information to be private and highly sensitive.

Bringing it up is a privacy violation and can be insulting, even if it may be germane to the topic of discussion.

Further similar incidents will be dealt with more harshly.

Quote: Dieter

Warning: Many of our members consider this type of information to be private and highly sensitive.

Axel posted the information on this forum, it can't be all that sensitive or private to any degree.

Quote: coachbelly

Quote: AxelWolf

[Unless you are deficient in something(as was pointed out, a common one is vitiman D) you dont need to be taking a bunch of vitamans. You can eat fairly crappy here in the USA and get evrything you need]

How has this nutritional philosophy been working out for you?

Haven't you had _{redacted by admin}

My understanding is that you are also _{redacted by admin}


Are you dismissing an enriched diet, including nutritional supplements, as a scam?

Anecdotally, I attribute the size and health of my family members to an enriched diet.

link to original post

I don't recall Axel ever giving a physical description of himself to the public nor posted a photo. Thus, I consider this doxing. Two-week suspension.

Lets get this back on track.

When I was about nine or ten, I scrimped and saved all summer to send away for a Giant play set from the back of the comic.
I have the ad right in front of me.
It says you get :
24 Giant American GIs
12 Giant American paratroopers
36 Giant Nazi soldiers
4 Giant American Sherman Tanks
2 Giant Nazi Tiger Tanks
4 Giant American Armored Vehicles
1 Giant exploding stone Bridge
4 Giant destroyed buildings
36 Giant assorted accessories.




It says to allow 6-8 weeks for delivery . Weeks go by and I come home from school to find a four-inch by six-inch package addressed to me. I have no idea what it might be as I'm expecting a huge parcel with all my Giant size soldiers and tanks in it. I open it and there is a lot of miniature flat soldiers, flat tanks, flat buildings, all perhaps 1/6th the size of a regular toy soldier.
My Dad is Overseas so I bring this mess to my mother and complain they must have sent me the wrong playset. My mom looks thru the packaging and shows me the catalog that came with it. It was from The Giant Toy company, and it clearly stated that everything in the package was a genuine GIANT product.

What is REGULAR sized?

Your regular is a vision of your desires or thoughts.

Mine might be entirely the opposite.

Theirs could be a 3rd to those.

Vitamins and supplements can be very loose with their names and claims as long as they have that warning label (maybe not the correct term) "not intended to diagnose, prevent, or treat, " etc.... So I would guess this is legal (in America for sure where regulations are loose to begin with, some countries have more regulation for supplements).

That being said, I am sure you are fine at a "50% dose". Multivitamins are usually overkill if you have a balanced diet, so even a 50% serving is probably more than enough.

Really the only supplement I have ever had physicians recommend me to take is fishoil (omega-3 technically) supplements when my triglyceride were starting to get high for my age (I don't eat seafood at all, because even my current Doctor who is very anti-supplements said its better to get Omega from certain fish in your diet, but this is acceptable if you avoid such foods). I think he even offered a prescription at one point (I don't know how prescription fishoil is any different, even he said there is not much of one, its more so if you want it tracked in your records I guess).

I do take a one a day mulit-vitamin pill (that is actually one a day not the brand name), and a B12 supplement as well (I forget why I take this, or when I started, but I have for some time, and just continue, something to do with energy and physical performance I think). But, I don't know if these actually do anything for me, or just make me feel healthier. Naturelo is the brand I use for all three supplements.

My current Doctor even said that such supplements can be harmful because it can give some people the mental license to be lazy about proper eating and energy habits (he is very much an advocate of consuming nutrients directly from food and thinks supplements should be avoided unless there is a deficiency or legitimate medical reason in which case they should be prescribed, and you should be monitored with lab work regularly to see if it actually makes a difference, but very against supplements from the "open market" so to speak). My current doctor says, whatever you spend on supplements every month would be better spent on more fresh and varied produce so that you have a naturally varied diet, I don't know how common this view is in the medical community, but this is the first primary care Doctor I have had who seems to just have disdain for the whole supplement industry, and seems to think that, at best its an unnecessary money drain/scam (and at worst it can cause you to intake too much of some and put you in danger) that should be rerouted to better food, and if you truly need a supplement (which very few adults actually do, at least not in America) it should be prescribed.

All of that being said I still continue with my supplements, though maybe one month I will cutoff all except fish oil and see if I actually feel any different. So I guess that is a long way of saying 50% serving size probably had zero impact on your life (it might even be optimal if you already have a good diet).