billryan
billryan
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May 3rd, 2021 at 10:06:48 PM permalink
His attorney worked on the case for years, I imagine on a 30-40% of settlement basis. I think she'd rather roll the dice and shoot for a big payday instead of accepting $8-10,000 for her efforts.
Queens County Civil Courts are notorious and have been for generations. The judges are almost all party hacks and were incredibly mediocre lawyers. Since the city closed its OTBs, those patronage jobs have gone into the court system.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
billryan
billryan
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May 3rd, 2021 at 10:07:32 PM permalink
Deleted double post
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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May 4th, 2021 at 1:08:43 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I watched the video of the back rooming. The security goons said he was "stealing points."



And I assume that would be illegal in that jurisdiction? If so, it seems that they assumed they had a good reason to detain him.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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May 4th, 2021 at 1:17:50 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It's easy to say in retrospect $25,000 is more than $0, but at the time I was of the understanding that similar cases in Nevada end up in mid-six-figure judgements.
.

Have any of those cases ever been when someone had been reasonably suspected of committing a crime?


From what I can recall, all the times where big money has been awarded have been when there was no reasonable suspicion of a crime.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
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May 4th, 2021 at 4:27:50 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

And I assume that would be illegal in that jurisdiction? If so, it seems that they assumed they had a good reason to detain him.



I don't believe you understand what the security guards meant when they said I was "stealing points"

I was caught gambling on the cards at E-Craps. Surveillance observed me putting my own money into the machines (It's right there on the tape they supplied)

In the backroom I was told I was stealing. i asked how I could be stealing when I was using my own cash and the security guard said I was stealing points by earning them on someone else's card.

The full quote rambled a bit but to paraphrase the most relevant part:

"It's your money, your card that's fine, it's your money, someone else's card, that's stealing. You are stealing points. Those points can be used for free food, for free gifts for a free buffet. But it's not free! Nothing is free in this world. Someone has to pay for it. You using someone else's card that's stealing and we don't allow that "

It's pretty hilarious when he says in the same breath someone has to pay for all the free food and me using my own money to do that is stealing.

It is perhaps indicative of how difficult this case was that even Axel heard the security guard mentioned stealing and thinks what I did was illegal. Imagine a non-gambling jury
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 4th, 2021 at 6:03:10 AM permalink
I think it was darkoz who made the following comparison at the time, so I give him proper credit. Let's say a grocery store puts out a coupon in a free paper for buy one loaf of bread, get one free. It does say limit one per customer. So darkoz gets a dozen of these papers, cuts out the coupon from each paper, and uses one per day. Eventually the store catches on that he is abusing the coupon offer. Do they have the right to backroom him for over an hour, make him empty his pockets, and photograph him against his will?

It would be a sad commentary if a jury didn't hold the store accountable if they did.

p.s. Happy Star Wars day!
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
darkoz
darkoz
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May 4th, 2021 at 6:36:45 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think it was darkoz who made the following comparison at the time, so I give him proper credit. Let's say a grocery store puts out a coupon in a free paper for buy one loaf of bread, get one free. It does say limit one per customer. So darkoz gets a dozen of these papers, cuts out the coupon from each paper, and uses one per day. Eventually the store catches on that he is abusing the coupon offer. Do they have the right to backroom him for over an hour, make him empty his pockets, and photograph him against his will?

It would be a sad commentary if a jury didn't hold the store accountable if they did.

p.s. Happy Star Wars day!



Thanks, Wizard.

To complete the analogy the coupon said limited to one per customer using your ShopRite card for example.

So showing up with your ShopRite card you buy one, get one free using the coupon from the paper.

Since it was limited to one per customer you return with your neighbors ShopRite card who willingly gave it to you and you get another buy one, get one free item.

And then ShopRite backroomed you, claims it's your money but someone else's ShopRite card so you stole the buy one get one free item
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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May 4th, 2021 at 6:48:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It's easy to say in retrospect $25,000 is more than $0, but at the time I was of the understanding that similar cases in Nevada end up in mid-six-figure judgements.

So, yes, the casino's attorney never offered as far as I know. However, I think they would have agreed to the 25k.



I can't imagine a six figure judgement with any physical assault.
Order from chaos
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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May 4th, 2021 at 7:19:03 AM permalink
Perhaps the main reason DarkOz lost was that he was not a sympathetic character to the jury. No matter the technical legality of the using dozens of other people’s cards, most everyone will feel that it is plain wrong to do so. People have an internal code of ethics, and most all would realize that DarkOz was trying to take advantage of an offer that in no way the casino MEANT to make available to him.

The jury must have felt that it was reasonable to assume that a crime was being committed, and even though that was found out to not be true, it was reasonable to think the cards were stolen. The fact that he was held for just an hour or two, and was not harmed, shows how minor this event was. I’ll bet the jurors have been ‘held’ longer in a traffic jam on the LIE (Long Island Expressway).

I do admire DarkOz’s ‘balls’ in bringing this lawsuit. Not his brains. And frankly, it seems like your lawyer was incompetent. As has been mentioned by other posters....

How many days/hours did you put into this endeavor? How much money (Wiz for a week has to be $$,$$$$). How many lost days of ‘work’ for you?

In summary..... from what you have shared, you had a weak case with a bad lawyer. But I still think you can be proud you had an idea and did all you could to make it come to fruition. Next time at least insult the casino security guy’s mother so he at least assaults you, so you will have a better case.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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May 4th, 2021 at 7:34:06 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I don't believe you understand what the security guards meant when they said I was "stealing points"

I was caught gambling on the cards at E-Craps. Surveillance observed me putting my own money into the machines (It's right there on the tape they supplied)

In the backroom I was told I was stealing. i asked how I could be stealing when I was using my own cash and the security guard said I was stealing points by earning them on someone else's card.

The full quote rambled a bit but to paraphrase the most relevant part:

"It's your money, your card that's fine, it's your money, someone else's card, that's stealing. You are stealing points. Those points can be used for free food, for free gifts for a free buffet. But it's not free! Nothing is free in this world. Someone has to pay for it. You using someone else's card that's stealing and we don't allow that "

It's pretty hilarious when he says in the same breath someone has to pay for all the free food and me using my own money to do that is stealing.

It is perhaps indicative of how difficult this case was that even Axel heard the security guard mentioned stealing and thinks what I did was illegal. Imagine a non-gambling jury

HOLD ON NOW!!!! I did not think what you did was illegal, bad or anything like that, I also don't like the fact that they can detain someone without something more substantial.

I said, if they thought you were stealing or doing something illegal that seems to give them "the right" to detain you.

If I were on a Jury, I would want to know the law.
If the law is... they must believe they have witnessed a felony in order to detain someone for the purpose of calling the police(?) If they didn't suspect you of committing a felony, and since they didn't call the police, I would side with you.

Personally, since security guards are in a special position where their job makes it more likely they will have to detain, enforce or protect (many view it as a position of authority). I think security guards should be held to a higher standard, including their knowledge of the laws. The casinos should be held responsible when they fail in that area.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on May 4, 2021
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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