Wealth TAX??? Is this even America anymore?
WTF
Already paying taxes on the money you earn each year isn’t enough for Ms. Warren?
Quote: happaherohttps://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-warren-wealth-tax-20190125-story.html
WTF
Already paying taxes on the money you earn each year isn’t enough for Ms. Warren?
#1 no it isn’t to these f’s. I told everyone the lunatics like her and the rest of the Dems will be trying to one up each other to win in 2020. 70% taxes, taking of property and other similar tactics appeal to losers who have nothing to show for their lives. And they believe there are enough jealous of hard work voters to make it a winning message. Robin Hood is alive and well with today’s Democratic voter. Only question is how far has the “racist” America fallen?
#2 There are people actually voting out there that think the Boomers ruined America with their belief in hard work, a house with a picket fence and 2.8 kids.
So yea, Warren isn’t even the worst of them, just read the comments on the HuffPost, assuming they still have them after the layoffs.
My main problem with wealth tax is, you pay tax on the same wealth multiple times.
From what I have heard, it is 2% on all wealth above $50 million, plus an extra 1% on anything above $1 billion.
Suppose you start with $1 billion.
The first year, you pay 2% of $950 million = $19 million
The second year, you pay 2% of (981 - 50) = 2% of $931 million = $18.62 million, and never mind the $931 million was already subjected to 2% tax the previous year.
Silly people for trying to build a better future for themselves instead of buying Hookers and Blow.
This is going to be the exact same thing. 150 years from now its going to be wealth tax on 80% of the general population @ a rate that would seem ludicrous in 2019.
I hope our constitution is solid enough to defend us against this.
That's it.Quote: happaheroThat's how it starts, back in 1861 income taxes were a super tiny percent & only applied to the very well to do. Look at income taxes now.
This is going to be the exact same thing. 150 years from now its going to be wealth tax on 80% of the general population @ a rate that world seem ludicrous in 2019.
I hope our constitution is solid enough to defend us against this.
Quote: jackmagic777How dare you pre-judge out future President? Have you no sense of decency?
I’m for Kamala, she did the same thing liberals want to put Harvey in jail for.
Unlike Colin, she took both knees.
Taking the willy from Willie.
$72k a year to start, finishes from Willie, no charge.
She thinks #metoo is an accomplishment for her.
Quote: BozLike Capital Gains tax or tax on savings, liberals always want to tax those who actually save and invest money that they already paid taxes on.
Silly people for trying to build a better future for themselves instead of buying Hookers and Blow.
Don’t get it twisted, hookers and blow are +EV investments. You just have to make sure money coming in far exceeds hookers & blow budget.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI think I would rather talk about lottery dreams than the plight of people worth over $50,000,000.
Some worry about 80,000 people who don't get paid for a month., and others worry about 70,000 people worth 50 million.
Quote: rxwineSome worry about 80,000 people who don't get paid for a month., and others worry about 70,000 people worth 50 million.
The politics of jealousy and anger at personal responsibility.
Let me guess, you are debating which 2020 Democratic candidate to donate to. Or who is offering more freebies that match the 80,000’s lot in life.
While Phillip Morris stock continues to grow in value making money selling cancer sticks to the so called “poor”.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/105550/among-americans-smoking-decreases-income-increases.aspx
So either we accept the “poor” are stupid and don’t understand smoking kills or we accept they are so depressed at their life choices they smoke to forget. Or we can also accept they are so smart that they realize the cigarette companies are smart enough to understand the studies are BS and no company would ever sell something that would kill their good customers.
Yes, Billionaires live off the cream of their business in luxury.
But businesses are seeing 2% cut in profits, which means that they may have to pass the 2% tax on to the customer.
We've been running a restuarant for 60 years. I've had bad years as a restaurant owner. We've lost money. My employees and the city in general refuse to believe that we've had many years where we lost money.
There was a rumor that we didn't pay the construction workers. That was totally false. This rumor ran through Merrill Lynch and our office. Until it was obvious that it was a lie. I ain't going to believe anything they say about donald trump unless i see it for myself.
After a cop friend whose dad works with the university leaders got us to donate to the university. Most hated us for donating. It is about hatred. Our business took a dive for the last 9 years. Even compartmentalized university personel were bad mouthing my dad. They think that we bribed the university for something. My dad graduated 60 years ago with a bachelors. Most donations are done quietly, just for this reason. I meet 100 donors at banquets. Most are not there. Some buildings that are donated, you will not find anything online about them. I saw people wearing sunglasses at the groundbreaking. Because they fear the public.
I met a business man that said that employees from other companies would brag about stealing because their owner goes hunting. What is more American that hunting. BTW he wrote the book on the industry methods
But somehow, if a group of tradesmen poach on my land, I'm the bad guy for kicking them off. They could have been in jail.
One suggestion was people up to a certain net worth pay income tax, and those above it pay a wealth tax instead.
How about something like this-
Step 1) A one percent annual wealth tax on individuals worth $100 million dollars. Suppose it affects 5,000 people. The government brings in $250 billion dollars.
Step 2) government buys $250 billion dollars of visa/mastercard type prepaid debit cards from banks , keeping or creating jobs.
Step 3) government distributes these cards to everyone who filed a tax return. Individuals get X, returns with more than one person get multiple X.
Step 4) government and businesses push a certain week where businesses discount these cards to get the money into the economy.
Step 5) the debit cards expire after 90 days and that money is credited back to either the original 5,000 or goes into the pool next year.
It creates jobs, gives back to the hundred million or so middle-class tax payers and pumps a quarter trillion dollars into the U.S. economy.
The middle class gets something, business has something and 5,000 uber rich get all the benefits a strong economy brings them.
In return, those 5,000 get exempted from any estate taxes.
He has done far more good for the world than his riches even come close to. The efficiency gains from businesses being able to utilize the MS platform have raised the living standards for everyone across the world.
Yes he got rich while doing it, but that should be something of pride. That’s how capitalism works problem solver should get rich & the efficiency gains benefit everyone. He should not have to apologize for being sucesful or feel like he owes the government more money.
My respect for Mr. Gates goes even further. Although he already changed the world with MS, he also spends much of his time & personal wealth trying to better humanity. That’s a personal choice and it shows he’s a genuinely kind person. I am sure when he spends his money on charitable causes it’s spent way smarter than having Trump or Nancy Pelosi decide where it goes.
I would like to see more smart people like Mr. Gates deciding where capital needs to be allocated instead of seeing him say rich need to pay more taxes & assuming these politicians know what to spend it on.
While there would still be scammers finding ways around paying, it would tax purchases of drug dealers, EBay sellers and others screwing hard working Americans, it would work.
It’s the computer age, track purchases, deposits and other cash transactions and prosecute them as needed. Even the illegals pay for their share and we all win.
Buy a jet, you pay, buy gold, you pay. Buy crack and the dealer buys anything, you pay. Win/ win.
Quote: MintyThat's not bad. Any idea what the difference to society would be trading an estate tax for a wealth tax?
I do not, but I think it is worth looking into it.
Quote: MintyThe income disparity only seems to get larger as time goes on, and I wonder if it would ever reach a point where there's no reversing it. The wealth tax would be a good way to correct for it, at least for awhile.
Why are people so worried about income disparity? If someday the world was so efficient @ production that it could supply food houses cars ect ect and production was SO efficient that you could have all these things by making $1 a day who cares about income disparity??? You only need to make $1 a day to have comproable living standards as today.
If one amazing person figured out how to do this, good for them they are going to be worth trillions. Biggest income disparity ever? Probably. Big win for humanity? Definitely.
Quote: MintyThe income disparity only seems to get larger as time goes on, and I wonder if it would ever reach a point where there's no reversing it. The wealth tax would be a good way to correct for it, at least for awhile.
What you are really saying is that there shouldn't be any big corporations. Only a 1000 small corporatons doing the same thing. That there should be a ceiling to how big a corp should be.
I would venture that the 2% would have gone to charities but is now diverted to the govt to fund its black budget in the trillions.
BTW the most expensive home isnt in the USA. Its buckingham Palace worth 10 billion. Maybe we should start with the royal family first.
Quote: happaheroAlthough I have great respect for Mr. Gates, I am going to have to respectfully disagree.
He has done far more good for the world than his riches even come close to. The efficiency gains from businesses being able to utilize the MS platform have raised the living standards for everyone across the world.
Yes he got rich while doing it, but that should be something of pride. That’s how capitalism works problem solver should get rich & the efficiency gains benefit everyone. He should not have to apologize for being sucesful or feel like he owes the government more money.
My respect for Mr. Gates goes even further. Although he already changed the world with MS, he also spends much of his time & personal wealth trying to better humanity. That’s a personal choice and it shows he’s a genuinely kind person. I am sure when he spends his money on charitable causes it’s spent way smarter than having Trump or Nancy Pelosi decide where it goes.
I would like to see more smart people like Mr. Gates deciding where capital needs to be allocated instead of seeing him say rich need to pay more taxes & assuming these politicians know what to spend it on.
Bill Gates? That wonderful guy that wants to see a 4x reduction in the world population. No thanks. He can go first though.
Maybe it's appropriate for CEOs to be paid 30x what their employees make. Maybe even 50x. I don't know, but between stock options, base pay, bonuses, bailouts, offshore money and tax loopholes I don't think it's absurd that the gap is narrowed a bit.
Big corporations give people jobs and add loads of value to society. However, it's important that we recognize these big corporations NEED people for the ability to function in the first place.
Quote: MaxPenBill Gates? That wonderful guy that wants to see a 4x reduction in the world population. No thanks. He can go first though.
"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be." Only kidding of course.
Quote: MintyI don't know if I'd go quite that far to say there shouldn't be big corporations. I'd argue that big corporations should be regulated more than they currently are with higher wages for most employees and less for those at the top, but exactly how that breakdown should look, I'm unsure. In a different thread someone referenced the rate of CEO pay to employee pay has completely spiraled out of control in the last 50 or so years.
Maybe it's appropriate for CEOs to be paid 30x what their employees make. Maybe even 50x. I don't know, but between stock options, base pay, bonuses, bailouts, offshore money and tax loopholes I don't think it's absurd that the gap is narrowed a bit.
Big corporations give people jobs and add loads of value to society. However, it's important that we recognize these big corporations NEED people for the ability to function in the first place.
I actually read a book "Good to Great" and "Built for Growth" about ceo's pay 10 years ago. It wasn't out of the norm. It isn't unheard of for even corp restaurant managers to get paid up to 100k with benefits. GE corp employee's get alot of benefits. There are great paying jobs within these corps. My bookkeepers sister is in sales and has changed positions. She has her hotel and airline tickets paid for when she travels she isn't restricted to certain hotels So she stays where its closest. She drives a corporate car. Their division had layoffs. And the division was bought out. Her husband does IT and they are considered middle class. CEO's of corps are responsible for so much. But I recall that a few of the best CEO's will not care about competitions pay as much as doing the job.
Quote: MaxPenBill Gates? That wonderful guy that wants to see a 4x reduction in the world population. No thanks. He can go first though.
I did not know that was on his agenda. I’m not sure what he’s proposing for how to accomplish this. I was more referring to his iniatives for clean drinking water for Africa.
Quote: jjjooogggI actually read a book "Good to Great" and "Built for Growth" about ceo's pay 10 years ago. It wasn't out of the norm. It isn't uncommon for even restaurant managers to get paid up to 100k with benefits. GE corp employee's get alot of benefits. There are great paying jobs within these corps. My bookkeepers sister is in sales and has changed positions. She has her hotel and airline tickets paid for when she travels. She drives a corporate car. Her husband does IT and they are considered middle class. CEO's of corps are responsible for so much. But I recall that a few of the best CEO's will not care about competitions pay as much as doing the job.
Thanks for dropping those book titles, I might have to look into those. Six figures is reasonable. Millions can be reasonable based on size of company and people employed. It's when you start getting to 10s and hundreds of millions I start to wonder. Same with professional athletes, it just seems excessive for the job they do. I wish I could remember where I heard it, but I've heard that on a day to day basis, middle managers affect companies more than CEOs. When it comes to acquisitions obviously it's out of their hands, but I thought it was interesting regardless.
Quote: MaxPenBill Gates? That wonderful guy that wants to see a 4x reduction in the world population. No thanks. He can go first though.
I'm not sure what you're referencing, but I suspect there's a gap in understanding what he's saying. He probably said something like -- optimally, earth should only have 1/4 of the current population. Even if we'd be better off with 1/4 of the population, as Bill Gates might say (idk), it doesn't mean he wants to actually kill off a bunch of people.
How do I donate to his foundation/charity?
As far as all this tax BS goes....remember, this isn't their end goal, it's just the start. If it goes into law and whatnot, then either it's going to be successful or it's going to fail. If it's a success, they'll say how awesome it is, so good, much wow, but there are still problems -- easy solution, we'll just bump it up. It's currently 70% tax above $10M income, now we'll make it 70% above $5M and 90% above $10M. And so on. But if it fails -- same outcome, people will say how it's just "not enough" and we need to do more, so again, they change it from 70% above $10M to 70% above $5M and 90% above $10M.
Quote: NathanI've always thought it was,"You make a lot of money, you pay more taxes. If you make a little bit of money, you pay less taxes."
Fewer*, you'd pay fewer taxes.
Quote: MintyI don't know if I'd go quite that far to say there shouldn't be big corporations. I'd argue that big corporations should be regulated more than they currently are with higher wages for most employees and less for those at the top, but exactly how that breakdown should look, I'm unsure. In a different thread someone referenced the rate of CEO pay to employee pay has completely spiraled out of control in the last 50 or so years.
Maybe it's appropriate for CEOs to be paid 30x what their employees make. Maybe even 50x. I don't know, but between stock options, base pay, bonuses, bailouts, offshore money and tax loopholes I don't think it's absurd that the gap is narrowed a bit.
Big corporations give people jobs and add loads of value to society. However, it's important that we recognize these big corporations NEED people for the ability to function in the first place.
One reason the CEO to worker pay gap could be increasing is companies entering into international markets. Take Wynn resorts for example. Steve Wynn had double the headaches and responsibility for expanding his company internationally to Macau. He made shareholders a lot of money expanding there and was compensated accordingly. A local vegas blackjack dealer at the Wynn delivers the same amount of value today as 5 years ago. While in the same time Steve Wynn figured out new avenues to drive massive profits. So a case could be made for the pay multiplier widening.
I do agree with you that most CEOs are vastly overcompensated for the jobs they do because most are so worried about next quarters GAPP earnings statment they end up being super short sighted and ruining it long term. I don’t think it’s governents job to police corporate compensation, if shareholders are dumb enough to pay the CEOs these cushy benefit packages it’s on them.
Quote: MintyI just want to say thank you to all involved for a civil discussion. It's refreshing.
I agree, the discourse in this thread puts Washington politicians to shame.
Quote: happaheroOne reason the CEO to worker pay gap could be increasing is companies entering into international markets. Take Wynn resorts for example. Steve Wynn had double the headaches and responsibility for expanding his company internationally to Macau. He made shareholders a lot of money expanding there and was compensated accordingly. A local vegas blackjack dealer at the Wynn delivers the same amount of value today as 5 years ago. While in the same time Steve Wynn figured out new avenues to drive massive profits. So a case could be made for the pay multiplier widening.
Wouldn't be better to look at the profit percentage vs. CEO pay. If CEO today brings in 100 times more profit in percent (adjusted for inflation) than a CEO 25 years ago his 100 times increase makes sense. If he didn't produce the equivalent results multiplied his pay has been inflated.
Also I feel that compensation packages should have incentives much longer than quarter to quarter or even year to year.
Quote: rxwineWouldn't be better to look at the profit percentage vs. CEO pay. If CEO today brings in 100 times more profit in percent (adjusted for inflation) than a CEO 25 years ago his 100 times increase makes sense. If he didn't produce the equivalent results multiplied his pay has been inflated.
Makes sense. Seems like it hasn't turned out that way though. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/on-leadership/wp/2017/10/06/a-new-report-suggests-a-fundamental-idea-behind-ceo-pay-could-be-broken/
"So give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." - Jesus
At one time, supposedly, Americans were free and sovereign people. Those generations gave huge sacrifices for those freedoms including fighting on this continent. George WaRshigton didnt drone-strike any red coats. It's still America but we are increasingly less free and sovereign. Many people on these forums have openly admitted that they prefer safety over freedom of choice. We've gotten what we deserve.
Quote: happaheroI did not know that was on his agenda. I’m not sure what he’s proposing for how to accomplish this. I was more referring to his iniatives for clean drinking water for Africa.
It's not. It's MaxPen using "alternative facts".
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/may/03/blog-posting/no-bill-gates-did-not-outline-2018-plan-depopulate/
Bill Gates is a great man afaik. It's nice that many of the ultra-rich don't think they pay enough in taxes and donate significant portions of their wealth. But since it's optional, the rest of them can just hoard more and more money that they don't need instead.
Quote: MintyOut of curiosity, and I have no idea what most posters ages are here, but have you found yourself growing more conservative financially as the years have gone by, or has it been pretty fixed for you?
ya pretty much
Quote: happahero
WTF
Already paying taxes on the money you earn each year isn’t enough for Ms. Warren?
She also introduced the Accountable Capitalism Act, which would require corporations with more than $1 billion in annual revenue to obtain a federal charter.
Add that to her new wealth bill, Ocasio-Cortez’ proposal for 70% top tax rate, Bernies Medicare for All, and Kamala’s ‘debt-free’ college, and the Party that oversaw seven of the eight past recessions, and eleven of the past thirteen bear markets is about to do it again.
“... enjoy being exhausted for the next two years while we run train on the progressive agenda,” - Ocasio-Cortez
Give the voters what they deserve, and buy the dip.
Quote: TankoShe also introduced the Accountable Capitalism Act, which would require corporations with more than $1 billion in annual revenue to obtain a federal charter.
Add that to her new wealth bill, Ocasio-Cortez’ proposal for 70% top tax rate, Bernies Medicare for All, and Kamala’s ‘debt-free’ college, and the Party that oversaw seven of the eight past recessions, and eleven of the past thirteen bear markets is about to do it again.
“... enjoy being exhausted for the next two years while we run train on the progressive agenda,” - Ocasio-Cortez
Give the voters what they deserve, and buy the dip.
I doubt any of these things will pass the current Senate. The window of opportunity to slow or stop this movement is between now and the 2020 election. Two things point to that being a possible issue--the President's popularity and the Senate election map for 2020.
There is one potential way to tax wealthy people that would cause them a burden without taxing money already taxed. That would be to tax their capital gains and other income each year. It would be an unreliable source of income because of the ups and downs of their investments, but it would only be a tax on what they earned (or a deduction for what was lost) each year. If you did that and let them pass their money to their heirs without a death tax, it could end up being palatable to more people. Simple class warfare--tax the rich--gets resistance from those not quite rich because they wonder when someone will come after their level of wealth.
**********
Someone up thread asked why we were talking about this instead of that. That is kind of the problem...we get stuck on one thing and others don't get taken care of because we have all these high paid people who can't seem to multi-task once they get in office. You can hate, and even want to impeach, the President and also recognize that there are problems that would be better solved now than later. It is power, and the perpetuation of it, that keeps elected officials from doing the work of the people instead of the work of the party.
It is easier to stay in power and pass the buck. Solving problems with things that may actually work is a lot harder.
It's far past time to redistribute.
Quote: mcallister3200If Kamala or whoever tries to make me pay for 2 1/3 other people’s healthcare from whatever healthcare firms bribe our politicians enough to get the forced healthcare monopoly again I think I’m done find some more saps to pay it. It appears to me we are in danger of heading towards the road of if the roots aren’t too deep, it’s time for many to create a 5 to 10 year US exit plan if you want to keep your hard earned money. Hate to have to think about it.
I realized it wasn't worth it about a year ago.
