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rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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September 19th, 2016 at 5:40:57 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that matters. Also, it's probably incorrect -- you might be feeling "duress" in the non-legal sense, but the legal term "duress" means unlawful coersion. Except in court, the law gives a judge the right to compel testimony so it's not actually "duress" because it's not unlawful. Almost by definition, not following the rules of the court -- including the rules about swearing to provide (and subsequently providing) honest testimony -- is contempt. You don't get to effectively say "I dispute this court's authority" and not have the court take it as an affront when, by law, they do have that authority. You have a Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination, but that doesn't excuse you from promising to be honest in the first place.



And this is another shining example of why I have no respect for the law and government. It's not duress when they do it. It's not kidnapping it's an arrest. It's not extortion it's taxation. It's not slavery it's conscription. It's not mass murder it's war. Even though the actions are the same.
cwazy
cwazy
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September 19th, 2016 at 6:25:05 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

And this is another shining example of why I have no respect for the law and government. It's not duress when they do it. It's not kidnapping it's an arrest. It's not extortion it's taxation. It's not slavery it's conscription. It's not mass murder it's war. Even though the actions are the same.



If you ever get prosecuted for perjury, just say that you responded "in the least untruthful manner possible," just like the Director of the CIA did...

https://youtu.be/CV7ecTqvkOc?t=45s
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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September 19th, 2016 at 7:56:39 PM permalink
I assume a high percentage of people are lying on the stand.

Security guards are big time liars from my personal experience and from many stories and evidence.

I'm not expecting an answer but ask yourself would you lie for a friend or loved one? I think most people would depending on the circumstances and how serious the situation was.

Imagine a situation where your co-worker is your friend who's up against some asshole AP who's in "your casino" making it his personal ATM. I'm certain they can, do and will justify lying.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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September 19th, 2016 at 8:36:59 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

And this is another shining example of why I have no respect for the law and government. It's not duress when they do it. It's not kidnapping it's an arrest. It's not extortion it's taxation. It's not slavery it's conscription. It's not mass murder it's war. Even though the actions are the same.

"Shayna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash!"

It's all about balancing privileges and responsibilities. You have a responsibility to the laws of the U.S. if you want the privileges of living under the rights they afford you. You don't have to pay U.S. taxes, you don't have to follow U.S. laws, you don't have to register for the U.S. Army. But you don't get to stay in the U.S. while not doing those things. (Except the Army, the draft hasn't been around for quite some time...)

You don't owe a similar debt to some other individual, which is why if that same individual tried to kidnap your or extort you or enslave you, it would be wrong. But the government does have those rights, and that's why they don't call them kidnapping, extortion, or slavery when the government does it via laws passed by representatives of the governed with their consent. The physical action may in fact be identical (arrest is a great example) but the context determines whether it's lawful or not. I mean, you'd be pretty mad if I came over to your house with an axe, chopped a bunch of holes in the wall, and then flooded it with water. But if I'm your next-door neighbor and your house is on fire, that's absolutely the right thing to do. Context matters.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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September 19th, 2016 at 10:26:10 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

But you don't get to stay in the U.S. while not doing those things.

But the government does have those rights, and that's why they don't call them kidnapping, extortion, or slavery when the government does it via laws passed by representatives of the governed with their consent.



Yes i do. The government does not have any property rights (jurisdiction) since everything they claim to own has been stolen and theft is not a valid ownership claim.

Oh and where did they get these so called rights from? How can an individual delegate a right that they themselves don't have to another?

I do not consent to being governed. Simply saying that nullifies any argument you have.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
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September 19th, 2016 at 11:15:50 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

And this is another shining example of why I have no respect for the law and government. It's not duress when they do it. It's not kidnapping it's an arrest. It's not extortion it's taxation. It's not slavery it's conscription. It's not mass murder it's war. Even though the actions are the same.



Nonsense. If courts don't have rules, and can't compel people to do certain things, then they're not courts.

And your false equivalences are silly. The pairs of actions you name are not the same at all. If you hate government, fine, but just try living without it.
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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September 19th, 2016 at 11:17:42 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

Yes i do. The government does not have any property rights (jurisdiction) since everything they claim to own has been stolen and theft is not a valid ownership claim.

Oh and where did they get these so called rights from? How can an individual delegate a right that they themselves don't have to another?

I do not consent to being governed. Simply saying that nullifies any argument you have.



You, my poor friend, are quite confused.
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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September 19th, 2016 at 11:48:03 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

You, my poor friend, are quite confused.



Everyday of my life I try living without government. The only time I interact with them is when they force me to interact with them.

Im not at all confused. I see government for exactly what it is. Just another mafiosa claiming it's not. Wake up and see it for what it is.

It's amazing that so many people are capable of dismissing heavenly dieties yet are unwilling to let go of earthly ones. Authority exists only in the mind. Whether that perceived authority is invisible (god) or physical (politicians, LEO'S, judges, prosecutors, etc).

If you claim to be an atheist but still believe in statism, you are not. You have merely replaced a heavenly diety with an earthly one. The state is your god.
KingoftheEye
KingoftheEye
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
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September 20th, 2016 at 8:49:37 AM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

Everyday of my life I try living without government. The only time I interact with them is when they force me to interact with them.

Im not at all confused. I see government for exactly what it is. Just another mafiosa claiming it's not. Wake up and see it for what it is.

It's amazing that so many people are capable of dismissing heavenly dieties yet are unwilling to let go of earthly ones. Authority exists only in the mind. Whether that perceived authority is invisible (god) or physical (politicians, LEO'S, judges, prosecutors, etc).

If you claim to be an atheist but still believe in statism, you are not. You have merely replaced a heavenly diety with an earthly one. The state is your god.



LOL, if you are a true non-believer, then why don't you go out a break a few laws? Rob a bank, steal a car, I guarantee the earthly "deity" will make you a believer real quick. That, or your cellmate will.
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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September 20th, 2016 at 9:20:33 AM permalink
Quote: KingoftheEye

LOL, if you are a true non-believer, then why don't you go out a break a few laws? Rob a bank, steal a car, I guarantee the earthly "deity" will make you a believer real quick. That, or your cellmate will.



Legality and morality have nothing to do with eachother. What's immoral (such as stealing) remains immoral regardless of what any so called law states. An immoral act doesn't become a moral act. A moral act does not become an immoral one. Just because a law may dictate otherwise.

It's recognizing that the police are no different than any other would be kidnapper. Its always moral to defend yourself against kidnapping but for self-preservation it's prob in your best interest to not resist the kidnapping.

Defending the law is no different than defending a Muslim extremist for wanting to kill the infidels. The law and any other religious scripture are nothing more than scribbles on a piece of paper where people delude themselves into believing they have the "right" to violate other people's rights because those scribbles say it's okay to do so.

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