State or USA citizen first

We've always been at war with Eurasia.

Germany has repent. It wants nothing to do with the past. There is a huge debate in Russia should Stalin be equated with Hitler, there are parts of history people of the particular country want to forget. Repent, admit the guilt, remove anything which has been associated with the horror and move on.

Quote: AZDuffman

My point is why do you call it a racist symbol then?

Do you have a blacks you consider friends?
I'm sure they can educate you.
Even hard core republican Clarence Thomas voted against it.
Ask him.

Quote: terapined

Do you have a blacks you consider friends?
I'm sure they can educate you.
Even hard core republican Clarence Thomas voted against it.
Ask him.

They have their opinion, I have mine. They do not have the same tastes in football, either. Anyhow, I asked you.

Quote: AZDuffman

They have their opinion, I have mine. They do not have the same tastes in football, either. Anyhow, I asked you.

(admins, please ignore flag button. not intending to flag, just sometimes hit it by mistake. How many people intend to reply and hit flag by mistake?
Maybe flag button should not be close to reply button)

Anyway I do not consider myself white.
In my eyes, flag = racisim and slavery.

Regardless of all your reasoniing, thats what I see.
I know you see something else, fine. I know a lot of other people see what they want to see. fine


Taxes.
Govts should not spend money on all this historic monuments and flags BS.
All this should be funded privately
Save the money , lower taxes.

Quote: petroglyph

(( -- Memory holed -- ))

We've always been at war with Eastasia.

Quote: terapined

Anyway I do not consider myself white.
In my eyes, flag = racisim and slavery.

Regardless of all your reasoniing, thats what I see.
I know you see something else, fine. I know a lot of other people see what they want to see. fine

This being the case, perhaps you will take a live-and-let-live attitude? The flag is causing nobody any physical harm. Being "offended" is not harm. I get "offended" at plenty of things, yet I am told to live-and-let-live.

Quote: AZDuffman

This being the case, perhaps you will take a live-and-let-live attitude? The flag is causing nobody any physical harm. Being "offended" is not harm. I get "offended" at plenty of things, yet I am told to live-and-let-live.

I see a bumper sticker or a personal flag, sure live and let live.
But using the peoples tax money to promote a flag that many see as racially decisive, the flag paid for with the peoples tax dollars needs to go.

Quote: terapined

But using the peoples tax money to promote a flag that many see as racially decisive, the flag paid for with the peoples tax dollars needs to go.

Then you are going to be banning lots of flags, eventually up to and including the Stars and Stripes.

Quote: terapined

In my eyes, flag = racisim and slavery.

Regardless of all your reasoniing, thats what I see.
I know you see something else, fine. I know a lot of other people see what they want to see. fine

Your eyes see that. They miss the bigger picture.



Do you know what that is? Do you know the answer to that question is "Depends who you ask"?

If you were of a religious society, that flag is a symbol of God's promise. It was a sign from Him to Noah that God would never again flood the Earth. If you were Italian, or from a number of other European countries, that flag would be a sign of peace and unity. But since you're American (by right, if not by heart), that to you is likely a sign of gay pride.

I wonder what these religious folks think, having "their" flag, which represents the word of God, being used to support homosexuality. Seems kind of a slap in the face, don't it? But because a group co-opted their flag, does that take away their loyalty to it? Do they have a right to demand it not be used?

Do you know what this is?



It's a Gadsden flag. It is also my flag. It's the only flag I fly.

I don't care that it was adopted by the US Navy. They have nothing to do with me nor why I fly it. I don't care that it's a song by Metallica, I don't care that Carl Edwards has it on his #99 Ford, I don't care that a bunch of Tea Partiers adopted it as their own symbol. My connection to this flag and why I fly it has zero to do with any of them or any of their reasons for using it. My reason is why it was made in the first place, reasons Ben Franklin expressed when it was created.

Quote: Ben Franklin

"I recollected that her eye excelled in brightness, that of any other animal, and that she has no eye-lids—She may therefore be esteemed an emblem of vigilance.—She never begins an attack, nor, when once engaged, ever surrenders: She is therefore an emblem of magnanimity and true courage.—As if anxious to prevent all pretensions of quarreling with her, the weapons with which nature has furnished her, she conceals in the roof of her mouth, so that, to those who are unacquainted with her, she appears to be a most defenseless animal; and even when those weapons are shown and extended for her defense, they appear weak and contemptible; but their wounds however small, are decisive and fatal:—Conscious of this, she never wounds till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of stepping on her.—Was I wrong, Sir, in thinking this a strong picture of the temper and conduct of America?"

That what I believe in. It doesn't matter who else adopts it or what meaning the prescribe to it. The gay pedophile chapter of the Westboro Baptists could adopt this flag, and I'd still fly it, because f$%^ them.

The Confederate Battle Flag is a sign of the south and of rebellion. It represents the same uppity attitude that turned a vast wildland into USA#1, it's the reason much of Europe speaks English instead of German. The fact that the KKK and AB adopted it as their own is no different than the gays taking the rainbow and adopting it as their own. Why is one OK and the other not? What would you say if I said Old Glory was nothing more than a sign of occupation, rape, and genocide, and AZDuffman, SOOPOO, ontariodealer and all the rest of you Northeastern palefaces needed to gtfo of my ancestral homelands? Hell, what if I burned that disgusting rag representing such violence and disgust?

To receive tolerance one much first practice it. You're losing the game.

***********************************

Back on topic, I'm surprised at the poll results. I can't recall ever referring to myself as "American" when asked by foreigner where I hailed from. It's always "WNY". Well, it's always "NY" and then a long explanation that I live in the sticks and not NYC, and have more in common with a Carolina cotton farmer than anything they're thinking of. Say you're American and people think you're fat, lazy, put cheese on everything, and own a hundred guns. Only one of those applies to me. Say I'm from WNY and everyone knows I refer to roads as "the" I-90, that I drink pop and not soda, that I measure distance in time, that I've driven a snowmobile to work on Monday and rode in with the windows down on Thursday, and pronouncing roads and areas like Scajaqueda and Canandaigua is second nature.

Course, I suppose I have more loyalty to America than I do NY, since NY flies in the face of everything I learned America to be. But then again, even America is flying in America's own face lately. I suppose me, AZD, and a few other free men are just gonna have to buy a plot in Wyoming and start a freedom preserve or something.