State or USA citizen first

Quote: Sabretom2

I'm sure everyone here understands the flag in question is not the flag of the confederacy, but the battle flag.

I knew that at one time, but blew right past it in my mental rejection of pc, thanks for pointing that out.

Quote: Sabretom2

I'm sure everyone here understands the flag in question is not the flag of the confederacy, but the battle flag.

I truthfully do NOT see the distinction. It was a Confederate Flag.

When a reporter asked Robert E Lee and U S Grant, a question after the war, both men gave the same answer, unknowns to the other's responds.

The question that was asked, " Did you fight the War of Rebellion over slavery?" Each men said that if the war was about slavery, they would have fought for the other side.

For Lee, his country was Virginia and for Grant, his country was United States.

Flags that offend certain groups and yet we have no problem displaying them.
Here is a partial list

Vietnam flag. This flag was that of our enemy.
Japanese flag. The same flag that flew next to the Nazi flag, and under which Pearl Harbor was attacked.
Confederate flag.
US flag, that was carried to massacre natives tribes.
Union Jack that colonized most of the world etc.
Romanian Flag that flew during the dictators reign. They cut out the center.

Some people find offense at the Confederate flag but Confederate flag does not equal slavery.

Quote: AceCrAAckers

When a reporter asked Robert E Lee and U S Grant, a question after the war, both men gave the same answer, unknowns to the other's responds.

The question that was asked, " Did you fight the War of Rebellion over slavery?" Each men said that if the war was about slavery, they would have fought for the other side.

For Lee, his country was Virginia and for Grant, his country was United States.

Flags that offend certain groups and yet we have no problem displaying them.
Here is a partial list

Vietnam flag. This flag was that of our enemy.
Japanese flag. The same flag that flew next to the Nazi flag, and under which Pearl Harbor was attacked.
Confederate flag.
US flag, that was carried to massacre natives tribes.
Union Jack that colonized most of the world etc.
Romanian Flag that flew during the dictators reign. They cut out the center.

Some people find offense at the Confederate flag but Confederate flag does not equal slavery.

I haven't mentioned the other side of my family tree as yet.
All you silly white men, and silly black men, and silly other men, can take your flags with you as you get back on your ships and sail away, hopefully forever. There, said, done. Two Feathers

Quote: terapined

Rush Limbaugh has jumped the shark.
He thinks the American flag is next LOL

He is correct, in fact it is already happening.

School bans American Flag on Cinco de Mayo.

UC Irvine Bans US Flag in "Inclusive Space.'

This stuff always starts with the kooks. But lets look at it as I always do, with logic!

We are at almost 10%, and it may already be more, of the USA being an immigrant population. This is 10% of the population with no born-in loyalty to the USA and possibly little gained loyalty. Remember the illegals rallies where they had Mexican Flags until they saw they were getting a negative reaction? This population is trending larger and larger.

Next you have the far-left who truth be told do not like the USA at best and hate it at worst. This is the kind who think the S&S represents slavery, genocide, theft, and any other bad thing they can think of. They are the kind that pushes the bans listed above.

Then you have the "well, we need to be nice" types. They do not hate the USA per se, but they will listen to group 2 above and say, "well, they do have some good points, maybe we need to just tone it down. Which becomes more down, down, and down. Happens every time.

On the flip side, the number of combat vets is declining rapidly. The armed forces keep coming from narrower and narrower parts of society. CA and the south are already over half the recruits. This is the group that will defend to the death, but it is getting smaller and smaller.

Patriotism ebbs and flows. Other than in 1976, patriotism ebbed big in the 1970s. It didn't really start to recover until Reagan made it OK again, the tipping point probably the Grenada invasion. I feel we are going to ebb again, if no other reason than it has been big since 1990 and people get worn out.

So, how would "banning" Old Glory happen? Well, first the kooks start on college campuses. As the kooks graduate, they get to become teachers and other influencer types who begin an indoctrination just like the pro-gay one that started in the very early 1990s. That took 20 years, but it eventually took hold. Meanwhile the patriotic guy is made to be socially unacceptable, here and there.

Eventually, some forces will say that the S&S is a "whites" flag and we need something "inclusive." Some ideas are drawn up. Various things happen. Perhaps a wave-election like 2008 and you get enough people in congress to pass anything no matter if the public wants it or not. Then BOOM, new flag.

And I will be the first to buy it! Immediately I will shine my shoes with it in public!

Quote: kewlj

In the oath of citizenship, we pledge to support and defend the constitution and laws of The United States of America above all else.

Furthermore you agree to renounce all allegiances to foreign sovereignties. The confederate flag represents a foreign soverenty, or would have if the south had won.

Additionally, in the Pledge of Allegiants, we pledge allegiants to the United States of America, not a single state.

We grant citizenship to aliens, they pledge the oath not us, we are nationals Kewl.

Quote: rainman

We grant citizenship to aliens, they pledge the oath not us, we are nationals Kewl.

We are granting citizenship to aliens now? I knew that greenish two headed guy at first base was acting peculiarly the other night. I'm headed to the store to get some of that extra heavy duty tin foil ;-)

Quote: kewlj

Furthermore you agree to renounce all allegiances to foreign sovereignties. The confederate flag represents a foreign soverenty, or would have if the south had won.

Nobody is pledging any allegiance to the Confederate Battle Flag, which BTW is not the flag of the CSA.

The people that had fought in the Revolutionary War and their immediate descendants did identify more as a member of their state instead of as a US citizen because the federal Government hadn't been around that long and wasn't as powerful as it is today. In the Post Civil war era, waves of immigrants arrived and had no ties to the states in the way that the Pre-Civil war population did. They were interested in becoming US citizens, not Virginians, New Yorkers, Pennsylvanians, etc. I was born in New York, if I'm asked where I'm from by another American, I say "New York". If I'm overseas and someone asks me the same thing, I say the United States first and then narrow it down to the state.

Quote: Paigowdan

I think in just about any instance where there's a Confederate flag, an American flag can be substituted to better effect.

On Fort Bragg in North Carolina, there is a small graveyard out in the middle of nowhere that has Confederate soldiers buried. There are small Confederate flags on the graves in a similar fashion that you see small US flags on the graves at the National Cemeteries. In this case, I'd let these guys have a pass. The graves are 15 miles into the woods and not visible from a paved road.