Is it fair?

I know someone with a real and documented disability who likes to play craps. People I have seen in wheelchairs like to play from the corner often and usually are conscientious about player population and crowding at the tables. Disabled people are usually the most considerate players at the table IMO. I have also played with blind players who really seemed to enjoy the game.

Yesterday at most, there were two other players at the table part time, and they were at the other end of the table. The disabled guy cannot physically throw the dice all the way from the end to the far end of the table, so likes to play from SL1. A request was made repeatedly for a chair which was a few feet away. The box person would not let the player have a chair at s1 to sit at [ but could have at table end] while the house spends a lot of time counting chips or another player takes a turn from right side.

This seems unfair as hell to me. If the guy moves to table end he gets chastised by the boxperson for not throwing the dice to the end, bounce of wall and etc. The guy asked if since there was no one else playing if the house could install the "board" which makes the table a little over half length which they do anyway when they are short of a full crew. This would make it possible for the disabled guy to throw to the end [new, closer end because of the board] and do the bounce off the wall to their liking thing. Again a resounding NO from the box.

The disabled guy is suffering continually and needs a game once in a while. Does this seem like an opportunity for a lawsuit for unfair practice against a disabled person, according to the ADA? It would be great if casinos took seriously the needs of those with disability's, if it didn't cause them [casinos] much trouble [cost] to allow them [disabled people] the same chance to lose money that others players have. It's not like asking the casino to provide some prosthetic device or a tool to increase the chances of winning. It is a simple way to help those that need it, at very little cost. IMO it would be great if someone with the wherewithal, drive, desire and tenacity would take at least one of these casinos to task, and make them at least consider special needs, which I believe is the law already?

A chair [in this instance]would in no way interfere with foot traffic as the walkways are quite wide. The only difference I can see is the guy could have been a little more comfortable during slow stick changes or chip fills or other [few and occasional] players took a turn. To me it is actually cruel, and there is no reason to deny the guy a chair other than a power trip the boxman is on. This particular casino is in Nevada but an indian casino, I don't know if that makes a difference as far as federal rules?

I have also played with blind players who really seemed to enjoy the game.

Yesterday at most, there were two other players at the table part time, and they were at the other end of the table. The disabled guy cannot physically throw the dice all the way from the end to the far end of the table, so likes to play from SL1. A request was made repeatedly for a chair which was a few feet away.

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I went to Vegas with a broken ankle once, in cast. Was offered stools to sit on at Orleans, Mirage and Flamingo, as I recall.

Bad service if they don't allow the request.

I've been to a few places where seats were the norm. (All outside of Vegas.) No fuss if you wanted to stand, and the shooter usually did, but it was up to you.

(And: SL1? Stick left 1?)

I know a guy who pretended to be a cripple so he could sit in a wheelchair and catch the hole card at a game. Best part is when the big player got backed off, the casino was too scared to back off a guy who might be a cripple so they didn't say anything to him at all, lol.

Quote: thecesspit

I went to Vegas with a broken ankle once, in cast. Was offered stools to sit on at Orleans, Mirage and Flamingo, as I recall.

Bad service if they don't allow the request.

Beyond bad service, imo. He could have a case under the ADA as well. A seat is easily a "reasonable accommodation". And Indian casinos are subject to ADA. I would love to see a lawsuit.

http://www.indiangaming.com/regulatory/view/?id=84

Quote: sc15

I know a guy who pretended to be a cripple so he could sit in a wheelchair and catch the hole card at a game. Best part is when the big player got backed off, the casino was too scared to back off a guy who might be a cripple so they didn't say anything to him at all, lol.

He probably wasn't betting big enough or something because this is the oldest trick in the book(stories floating around for years), surveillance actually specifically watches and scrutinises people in a wheelchairs at the table. It's Probably the 2nd line in the surveillance hand book, just under... watch for the guy with a shoe of cards under his jacket.

I don't think they were to scared, just to stupid.

If that's the case just recruit a gay, black, cripple and print money.

Quote: tringlomane

Beyond bad service, imo. He could have a case under the ADA as well. A seat is easily a "reasonable accommodation". And Indian casinos are subject to ADA. I would love to see a lawsuit.

http://www.indiangaming.com/regulatory/view/?id=84

Fascinating. I met a guy a few times who was claiming to have a bad back (and a doctor's excuse of some sort to that extent), who wanted to stand at a handheld blackjack game (normally requires players to be seated). Pit boss claimed they weren't required to accommodate him, and if he didn't like it he was welcome to sue the tribe. (They were willing to let him stand as needed; they just weren't willing to deal him cards while he wasn't seated.)

I do have an acquaintance in a wheelchair who likes to play the same handheld game. She often sits at a position where she might be able to catch the hole card, but her play isn't good enough that she's catching the hole card.

Quote: Venthus

I've been to a few places where seats were the norm. (All outside of Vegas.) No fuss if you wanted to stand, and the shooter usually did, but it was up to you.

Quote:

(And: SL1? Stick left 1?)

Exactly. Or two, three, corner, end or hook, or the opposite on the right side.

Quote: tringlomane

Beyond bad service, imo. He could have a case under the ADA as well. A seat is easily a "reasonable accommodation". And Indian casinos are subject to ADA. I would love to see a lawsuit.

http://www.indiangaming.com/regulatory/view/?id=84

From my minor understanding of law, the ADA is always talking about fairness to "employees", not customers. I think business has to have handicap parking and accessible doors, other than that they have a right to refuse service to anyone? I don't know how it works, but I know it causes undo hardship on the player for no reason that I can see, other than meanness. Oh, and the player is a perpetual tipper.

Quote: petroglyph

From my minor understanding of law, the ADA is always talking about fairness to "employees", not customers. I think business has to have handicap parking and accessible doors, other than that they have a right to refuse service to anyone? I don't know how it works, but I know it causes undo hardship on the player for no reason that I can see, other than meanness. Oh, and the player is a perpetual tipper.

ADA does a lot for both customers and employees. There are a lot of obscure requirements even as far as mirror height and sink height etc...

They have a right to refuse service to anyone, but not because of discrimination (they can't refuse because of race, religion, gender, handicap/ genetic condition etc.... , so they could not refuse somebody because he was in a wheel chair).

Quote: Gandler

ADA does a lot for both customers and employees. There are a lot of obscure requirements even as far as mirror height and sink height etc...

They have a right to refuse service to anyone, but not because of discrimination (they can't refuse because of race, religion, gender, handicap/ genetic condition etc.... , so they could not refuse somebody because he was in a wheel chair).

That's my understanding as well; if a refused ADA customer were to sue, the casino would have to prove the refusal was not solely based on inability to accommodate the disability. Otherwise, they'd be out of compliance and liable.

Certain problems do arise. One is non-English at a poker table. Another is a person with claimed back pain getting a massage from his companion who is standing behind him as he sits. (Obviously the masseuse can see some cards and give signals). Few casinos refuse stools to craps players. On the old Palm Beach Princess there were often more stools at the craps tables as standees. There is usually a request that the shooter stand while shooting and most people comply without complaint realizing that it for game security purposes.

Yes, there are concepts of aisle space, space for waitresses, drink spilling, crowd flow and emergencies. The main concern for a casino is game protection. Wheel chair at a table... ever see a floor person take a compass and walk around the table with it. He is not trying to find which direction is North. He is just trying to see if the needle moves when he passes that wheel chair. If it does, he knows someone will be using magnetic dice and the wheel chair will contain a strong electromagnet. Most of the time, that cheap compass never waivers at all, but its there in the pit for a reason and they do use it.