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11 members have voted

Canyonero
Canyonero
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October 12th, 2014 at 5:17:15 AM permalink
Quote: kenarman

The majority of poor people in America could be much better off is they got off their butts.



And that ist the fundamental lie sown by those who benefit from it and believed and repeated again and again by those who suffer from it. And if you repeat it often enough, it almost becomes a truth.

Why is it that the number of people "not getting off their butts" is more than double (percentagewise!) in the US than in Switzerland?
Why do high numbers of people "not getting off their butts" consistently grow up in the same states or cities or neighborhoods?
Why can't people working 60 hours a week frying burgers (I call that "getting off their butt", no matter how much disrespect you have for frying burgers, 60 hours is 60 hours) still not feed and educate their children properly? (And thus teach them how to get off their butts.)

Yes, "getting off our butt" plays an important part for success in your life. But the biggest portion of your success and status in life stems from the simple fact whose vagina you crawled out of. And that is not a choice.

(And yes, there are many individual examples of people who made it against all odds, but that doesn't disprove this argument in the slightest. Heck, even the first Black President basically grew up as a privileged White kid.)
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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October 12th, 2014 at 6:00:13 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero


Why do high numbers of people "not getting off their butts" consistently grow up in the same states or cities or neighborhoods?



Probably because they are in a local culture where it is seen as "OK" to refuse to work. Does not excuse such refusal at all.


Quote:

Why can't people working 60 hours a week frying burgers (I call that "getting off their butt", no matter how much disrespect you have for frying burgers, 60 hours is 60 hours) still not feed and educate their children properly? (And thus teach them how to get off their butts.)



The answer here is simple, because burger-frying is an entry-level job that produces low value-added so will always be a low wage. A better question is why would someone choose to have children when they can only get an entry-level job instead of waiting a few years until they have built skills. And if you reach your mid 20s and cannot do anything more than fry burgers? Then you need to get off your butt.

Quote:

Yes, "getting off our butt" plays an important part for success in your life. But the biggest portion of your success and status in life stems from the simple fact whose vagina you crawled out of. And that is not a choice.



If you believe this then you will always be unsuccessful.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Dicenor33
Dicenor33
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October 12th, 2014 at 6:00:34 AM permalink
Disagree. No other country in the world offers more opportunity for Black people. It took a long time and effort to reach this point and now not to use it is a real shame.
kenarman
kenarman
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October 12th, 2014 at 8:47:18 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

Yes, "getting off our butt" plays an important part for success in your life. But the biggest portion of your success and status in life stems from the simple fact whose vagina you crawled out of. And that is not a choice. )



This is simply an enabling excuse. People of all races and nationalities have poverty issues. It is easy to blame it on outside forces over which you have no control and there is some truth in that but to sit and do nothing but live on the dole is "sitting on your butt". Are you liable to become a millionaire, no, but it is possible. Are you going to be better off?. For most people the answer is yes but regardless being a productive part of society will pay you benefits in the long run in self esteem and health. The country will be better off with the increased productivity and some of that will filter down to everyone including you.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
socks
socks
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October 12th, 2014 at 9:22:21 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I am not necessarily defending income inequality, I am merely pointing out that many people don't think it is an issue, and that there are much worse things.

It's been over 50 years since Kurt Vonnegut created the story of Harrison Bergeron who lives in a world that strives for equality. But the only way they can do it is to handicap people so they are all reduced to the lowest common denominator. ...


Yes, a great story. My intuition has generally, in the past, taken me to the right leaning view, that quality of life can be improved for all despite growing income inequality, and that is what's important. But this view assumes away a lot of violence. Middle men minorities are under particular stress when growth stops, their talents have resulted in disproportionate gains (moreso in the modern age of winner take all markets?). When the music stops, people find their chair(group) start scape goating the others, because subconsciously they want/expect things to get better, and things spiral out of control. Much of the left's philosophy looks a lot less crazy through this lens, but we can't discuss group conflict honestly (that might make it worse), and so one (type of) minority must go unnamed, and the 99%, so to speak, don't pay attention to the dynamics at the top.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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October 12th, 2014 at 10:46:26 AM permalink
Quote: socks

Yes, a great story. My intuition has generally, in the past, taken me to the right leaning view, that quality of life can be improved for all despite growing income inequality, and that is what's important. But this view assumes away a lot of violence. Middle men minorities are under particular stress when growth stops, their talents have resulted in disproportionate gains (moreso in the modern age of winner take all markets?). When the music stops, people find their chair(group) start scape goating the others, because subconsciously they want/expect things to get better, and things spiral out of control. Much of the left's philosophy looks a lot less crazy through this lens, but we can't discuss group conflict honestly (that might make it worse), and so one (type of) minority must go unnamed, and the 99%, so to speak, don't pay attention to the dynamics at the top.



Outstanding post, there is even a name for those that would recognize the unnamed, however, ironically inaccurate.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 15th, 2014 at 6:32:56 AM permalink
I thought of a different way to summarize the data in the IMF report. Keep in mind that the world's GDP is over $100 trillion so 1% is a lot of money.

The IMF predicted % of World's GDP For End of Year 2014
**USA* *CHINA*
19.242% 16.055% - April
16.277% 16.479% - Oct

So while China went up by 0.424%, the USA went down by nearly 3%.

China didn't overtake the USA as much as the USA fell behind China (according to the IMF).
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