FrankScoblete
FrankScoblete
Joined: Mar 27, 2013
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February 6th, 2014 at 3:35:46 AM permalink
(I do not know the answer to this --- if there is an answer.)

A man robs a bank of $10K and…

1. goes to a casino and loses all of it
2. goes to a big restaurant and orders dinners for everyone and drinks for the house
3. goes to basketball, football and other sporting events
4. buys all of Frank Scoblete’s books
5. gives a 10K donation to his church
6. buys his son’s automobile and pays his son’s rent for six months

He is caught by the police who know exactly where he spent his unearned money.

Do any of the above have to give back the money to the bank?

(My new book is "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic.")
Konbu
Konbu
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
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February 6th, 2014 at 5:25:49 AM permalink
I think if the stuff could be returned in new or like-new condition then some money would be returned.

1. Nope.
2. Nope. Food is down the drain.
3. Nope.
4. Yep, however many books that are still in new condition.
5. I think yes as well, unless the money's already legally committed to something.
6. Yes. Return the car for fair value and 5 month's rent back.
I CD-ROM.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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February 6th, 2014 at 7:13:19 AM permalink
It is my understanding that the crook, if found guilty, can then be sued to get the money back.

However, anyone who unknowingly received the dirty money is not liable.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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February 6th, 2014 at 8:17:04 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete

(I do not know the answer to this --- if there is an answer.)

A man robs a bank of $10K and…


In all cases, the man is liable to the bank for $10K. That's an easy one. Here's a harder question from a case I worked:

A man steals $10K worth of free play dollars from another casino player. (The details about how he did it aren't important, but basically it was an inside job.) He then plays games at the casino, attempting to turn those comp dollars into real ones. Unfortunately for him, he loses. His free play coin-in is $22K and his coin-out is $13K for a net loss of $9K free play. He cashes out with $1K in USD.

How much is he liable for, and to whom?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 6th, 2014 at 8:37:19 AM permalink
Well the man has shown real poor judgment in a number of these, the robbery in the first place, buying dinner and drinks for strangers and most of all buying all Frank Scoblete's books. Maybe he is setting up an insanity plea. <-lol (just kidding Frank).
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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February 6th, 2014 at 10:02:36 AM permalink
Quote: FrankScoblete

Do any of the above have to give back the money to the bank?



It depends. If they knew the money was stolen, yes. If they didn't know, then no.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FrankScoblete
FrankScoblete
Joined: Mar 27, 2013
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February 6th, 2014 at 1:20:24 PM permalink
I'm thinking (guessing) that only the son might be culpable in the eyes of the law because the prosecutor might think that the son had advanced knowledge of the robbery. If he didn't, then I am thinking (guessing) that he doesn't have to give any money back. I don't know how the son proves this other than saying, "I didn't know he stole the money."

I think of these as ticklish scenarios. But now look at this:

If you KNOW the money is stolen then should you accept it as payment --- is that legal? If it is legal, is it moral? What about Bernie Madoff's lawyers? He paid them with stolen money. They took it and defended him. People were devastated by Madoff's theft yet his lawyers profited.

And what about casinos who accept laundering money --- as they do in AC, although the casinos don't "know" (they know, they know) that the scruffy, low-life guy cashing hundreds of dollars in fives and 10s and 20s to play for a few minutes is a drug dealer using his drug profits. (Some have white powder under their damn noses!)

So, horrors, the innocent can be helped by crime --- even if they know it is a crime. (These are all guesses on my part. This is the first time I ever thought of this stuff.)

Unless you have been stealing money, buy my new book "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic."
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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February 6th, 2014 at 10:50:02 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

In all cases, the man is liable to the bank for $10K. That's an easy one. Here's a harder question from a case I worked:

A man steals $10K worth of free play dollars from another casino player. (The details about how he did it aren't important, but basically it was an inside job.) He then plays games at the casino, attempting to turn those comp dollars into real ones. Unfortunately for him, he loses. His free play coin-in is $22K and his coin-out is $13K for a net loss of $9K free play. He cashes out with $1K in USD.

How much is he liable for, and to whom?



He owes the casino player $10K.
He owes the casino $12K.

He stole 22K.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
coilman
coilman
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
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February 6th, 2014 at 11:26:36 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

It is my understanding that the crook, if found guilty, can then be sued to get the money back.

However, anyone who unknowingly received the dirty money is not liable.



So a lady is always in the casino ..losing night after night, thousands upon thousands of dollars.. insane amounts of money...does the casino who knows her name via her card have any moral obligation to check on her background to see if she has this kind of coin to lose? If they did check and her action doesn't match her earnings is it alright for them to let the gambling continue?
vetsen
vetsen
Joined: Jun 4, 2013
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February 7th, 2014 at 4:14:41 PM permalink
There's an actual example of something pretty close to this going on right now.

A lady embezzled roughly $4 million from her employer. She spend most of it at the casino. Her employer is now suing the casino, basically suggesting that they should have know that the money was stolen. Of course a good part of the reason they're suing the casino is because the former employee has no money to go after.

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