Blacks in sports
The quality of the games is as good as ever, and with the NFL, probably the best it has ever been.
I've no complaints; I just have to wonder WHY there is such an increase in the number of black athletes?
I suspect (and would regret) if it is the result of so few other opportunities for blacks to succeed in America today.
I have always wondered why there were no blacks in the AP world. Especially VP, I have yet to meet one black AP in 16 years. Not including Poker. I know there are some, but very, very fewQuote: MrVIt is increasingly obvious to me that more and more professional athletes in "the big three" (football, baseball, basketball) are black, and that the number of whites is diminishing.
The quality of the games is as good as ever, and with the NFL, probably the best it has ever been.
I've no complaints; I just have to wonder WHY there is such an increase in the number of black athletes?
I suspect (and would regret) if it is the result of so few other opportunities for blacks to succeed in America today.
Quote: MrVIt is increasingly obvious to me that more and more professional athletes in "the big three" (football, baseball, basketball) are black, and that the number of whites is diminishing.
I thought in football it was relatively stable.
Quote: MrV
The quality of the games is as good as ever, and with the NFL, probably the best it has ever been.
If you like an offensively oriented game it is, if you prefer a defensive chess-match it is not. But back on subject.
Quote:I've no complaints; I just have to wonder WHY there is such an increase in the number of black athletes?
I suspect (and would regret) if it is the result of so few other opportunities for blacks to succeed in America today.
I would not say it is because of "lack of opportunities" but the lower classes seem to produce more athletes as poor people play more such sports than wealthy folks. A wealthy kid gets a computer or video game for Christmas, a poor kid gets a basketball.
Physically I can see two things that might come into play. First, blacks can take a hot, humid environment better than whites. Football and Basketball tend to have these conditions and have the higher concentrations of black players. Baseball and hockey do not and thus have less a concentration. Hockey is played in a cold environment and is expensive to have your kid play. Before anyone calls this a "racist" statement I can say I have both seen it happen and read science behind it. The reason is the gene than causes sickle cell anemia. Personally, when I was in pest control if we went into a black owned house in winter it was often so hot we would be from uncomfortable to near actually sick. I have worked with several blacks who just loved August when it was hot and humid, others told me they hated Phoenix as it was so dry. Conversely, the first cold snap in late fall felt like freezing to them.
The second, physically, is I have read that muscle structure is different. Blacks have a muscle structure that give a major advantage for short, quick bursts of strength but this advantage lessens as what needs to be done is of a longer duration. So a running back that needs to hit the line fast gets more of an advantage here than say a center fielder.
Do not shortchange the "push" given, either. The NFL and media have given push to black players and coaches for 35+ years now.
Alas, in the USA we are too PC to have any kind of real conversation on the subject.
Quote: MrV
I suspect (and would regret) if it is the result of so few other opportunities for blacks to succeed in America today.
I think the opposite is true. Domestically, non-whites now have access to more and better college options and preparatory programs, which leads to exposure and development that results in their increased ability to become top-league professional athletes. Similarly, international scouting programs have now been developed in places where they weren't previously (Baseball in the southern Caribbean, NBA in Africa, etc) and the result is a higher number of highly-skilled dark-skinned players in those leagues.
Quote: DRichMajor League Baseball only has about 8% black athletes.
Thank you for calling this out. It is also on the decline.
Quote: AZDuffmanPhysically I can see two things that might come into play. First, blacks can take a hot, humid environment better than whites. Football and Basketball tend to have these conditions and have the higher concentrations of black players. Baseball and hockey do not and thus have less a concentration.
Are you high? Basketball is played is played indoors, in the winter. Baseball is played outdoors (mostly), in the summer, and is the hottest, sweatiest, most humid sport out there.
Basketball is played in either a hot sweaty gym or on a hot, sweaty court in summer. Don't confuse NBA Season with when kids play basketball.
Quote: AZDuffman
Physically I can see two things that might come into play. First, blacks can take a hot, humid environment better than whites. Football and Basketball tend to have these conditions and have the higher concentrations of black players. Baseball and hockey do not and thus have less a concentration. Hockey is played in a cold environment and is expensive to have your kid play. Before anyone calls this a "racist" statement I can say I have both seen it happen and read science behind it. The reason is the gene than causes sickle cell anemia. ...
The second, physically, is I have read that muscle structure is different. Blacks have a muscle structure that give a major advantage for short, quick bursts of strength but this advantage lessens as what needs to be done is of a longer duration. So a running back that needs to hit the line fast gets more of an advantage here than say a center fielder.
I believe the common usage of "racist" (and one I've seen in a couple of online dictionaries) is that it is racist to believe groups differ in any meaningful attribute.
The gene for sickle call anemia is usually noted as a defense against malaria, and ircc frequencies in US blacks are intermediate between west africans and whites. Of course, I can't suggest this shows selection against this trait due to lack of malaria (and not heat/humidity) since I obviously believe whites have equivalent proportions of, as yet undiscovered, genes that do that same thing... because I don't want to be racist.
Its not about race... They are picking the more superior athlete.
The owners don't care who's on the field. They just want to pack the stadiums... If they could get by with cheerleaders, they would.
LOLQuote: Dicenor33White athletes live in my world...
This is one of the dumbest comments I've read on this forum. (And I'm white so I can say that) ;)
Quote: DRichMajor League Baseball only has about 8% black athletes.
Baseball players start out very young, even 6 and seven years old. But they have to have the opportunity. Mickey Mantle attributed the decline in the number of black major leaguers to inner city parks being taken over by adult softball leagues.
Quote: socksI believe the common usage of "racist" (and one I've seen in a couple of online dictionaries) is that it is racist to believe groups differ in any meaningful attribute.
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or calling me a racist. But I am one of the select group in the USA that does not care if I get called one or not as I am tired of everything being some kind of racism these days.
Like I said, in our PC world we cannot have the discussion. It is not "racist" to believe this as there are differences in groups in meaningful attributes. To deny it is to deny science. To think that groups form one part of the world developed in exactly the same way as groups from a far different part is to crazy.
Or as I always remind people, stereotypes come about because of some basis in reality.
Quote: Dicenor33. White athletes live in my world.
I could care less about color, its ability that counts for me. Anyway , wrestling fan?
Quote: Dicenor33The main reason I don't care about sport is exactly an enormous presents of black athletes. You can call me racist, but honestly, I don't give a damn which one of them wins. NYC marathon won by African athletes, I have no idea what are their names, I simply don't care. White athletes live in my world, black people got their own agenda, mostly associated with racism, I know it's bad, but I got other interests in this life.
So I was wondering, and of course you have the right to express your opinion but if you have such strong convictions that you would state one race doesn't exist according to you, why would you even comment ont his thread?
Again, this isn't an attack, I appreciate your opinion, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Quote: AZDuffmanNot sure if you are agreeing with me or calling me a racist.
Excellent, I spent a lot of time on alt-right sites last year and had begun to internalize the need to be at least a little obtuse about racial issues. It looks like I've found a balance.
(I'm agreeing with you.)
Quote: DRichMajor League Baseball only has about 8% black athletes.
Yeah, I rarely watch baseball; I was thinking mainly about the NFL when I started the thread.
It seems to me anyway that originally blacks were tapped for speed: corners, safeties.
Then came strength, with more and more linemnen being black.
Now the circle is complete, with more and more black QBs.
Nothing wrong with it, just change, is all.
But why the change?
I'm not going to go googling for it but I recall hearing that the number of black athletes in baseball has declined since the late 20th century. More latino athletes are playing baseball today then ever before.Quote: MrVIt is increasingly obvious to me that more and more professional athletes in "the big three" (football, baseball, basketball) are black, and that the number of whites is diminishing.
The quality of the games is as good as ever, and with the NFL, probably the best it has ever been.
I've no complaints; I just have to wonder WHY there is such an increase in the number of black athletes?
I suspect (and would regret) if it is the result of so few other opportunities for blacks to succeed in America today.
As far as the "fewer opportunities elsewhere" theory goes, there are not enough opportunities in sports to explain a surge in black athletes. The chances of becoming a black athlete in football is far far less than becoming a black professor at a college or a black lawyer or a black stock broker, all of which I've known personally or through friends.
Concerning football, I think that there's a direct line from High School to College to the Pros that may favor athletes from places where winning coaches coach. Is there a correlation between those elite High School coaches and the demographics from which they pick their players? That may need more study because I sure don't know but I think there may be.
I think NBA basketball is an American joke of a sport any more. It's nearly all black, and most of the whiteys are from some foreign country. How is it even possible that so few US whites can't compete? There's still lots and lots of them that play at the high school level.
But it's the NFL that boggles the mind. Just look at the non-diversity in that sport. Where did all the whites go? And why are the skinny little white kickers mostly from other countries, or at least it seems? Where's the white Al Sharpton calling for more white participation, and what happened to EEO? Even the QB's are now starting to change colors? I also think they're ruining the game. Tough guys, power runners, fast, and really strong arms. They're great athletes for sure, but we'll never see braniacs like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, or Y. A. Tittle etc. again if this keeps up.
The NHL...how come they can't skate?
Quote: tournamentkingwe'll never see braniacs like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, or Y. A. Tittle etc. again if this keeps up.
Russell Wilson is no slouch, but as they say, "time will tell."
Quote: AZDuffmanBasketball is played in either a hot sweaty gym or on a hot, sweaty court in summer. Don't confuse NBA Season with when kids play basketball.
Except the question was specifically about pro sports. Even in AAU or high school though, basketball moves inside. I don't think there are any NBA players who played street ball their whole life and then joined the league, skipping high school.
Quote: MrVThen came strength, with more and more linemnen being black.
I think offensive linemen are still > 50% white, although I don't have the numbers to back it up.
Quote: s2dbakerI'm not going to go googling for it but I recall hearing that the number of black athletes in baseball has declined since the late 20th century. More latino athletes are playing baseball today then ever before.
Link here, discussed on the first page of this thread.
Quote: s2dbakerBasketball is inexpensive (comparatively). It's going to attract people who are athletic who have fewer choices in sports due to financial factors. It would be easier to spot a tiger in the woods than to find a black golfer.
I think you've hit on one major factor; every parking lot or driveway can be a basketball court. You need a big park to play baseball in and a bunch more guys, and football's too expensive for many schools, including my alma mater (Creighton), but also with the cutbacks in public school funding, the huge teams and equipment expense, all of it. Hockey takes an ice arena or is weather-dependent, both expensive and erratic.
I think the other part is cultural/advertising. Basketball is up-close; the players are accessible. Football players are far away on a field, covered with helmets and full clothing. Baseball players are far away, get almost no camera time (even pitchers are only playing every 3rd game); a hitter might be seen for 3 at bats for maybe 15-20 minutes total. Hockey is way too specialized. So of those 4 major sports, who do the kids try to be? Michael Jordan. Larry Bird. Kobe Bryant. Shaq. Vlade Divak. They're on the floor on camera the whole game, they're in shorts and shirts and sneakers, which is what the kids wear, and a lot of the superstars of any color transcend race. Does anybody think of Michael Jordan as black? Does anybody even care? Are more people going to recognize Michael or Tom Brady walking down the street?
Oh, and please add Fran Tarkenton to your list of the greats, thanks!
Ummmm.....you left out the greatest of them all......King James!??!?!?!?
Que the whaling :)
Quote: mickeycrimmBaseball players start out very young, even 6 and seven years old. But they have to have the opportunity. Mickey Mantle attributed the decline in the number of black major leaguers to inner city parks being taken over by adult softball leagues.
You have to know how to play baseball. When did you start playing it? I started playing baseball in the parks in San Francisco when I was six years old. Have you ever played a Pickup Game? Do you know what a Pickup Game is? I already know you don't. Because none of you assholes have ever played inner city kid baseball.
Hi Mickey how are you doing?Quote: mickeycrimmYou have to know how to play baseball. When did you start playing it? I started playing baseball in the parks in San Francisco when I was six years old. Have you ever played a Pickup Game? Do you know what a Pickup Game is? I already know you don't. Because none of you assholes have ever played inner city kid baseball.
lets do some math. Early morning+Day before Thanksgiving+ Mickey calling eeryone Aholes= Just got back from the bar?
Quote: AxelWolfHi Mickey how are you doing?
lets do some math. Early morning+Day before Thanksgiving+ Mickey calling eeryone Aholes= Just got back from the bar?
That's right, Axel. Just got back from the bar. I slammed a couple dozen. Bought my frineds their fill too. Clocked with a 91 MPH fastball at the age of 15.. At the age of 60 I'll still smoke your ass.
Is Fastball a name of a drink? Ya, I didn't play a lot of baseball other then Pick-nicks, PE, camping, church shit when I was a kid, No after school sports teams for me. Never liked the thought of some coach telling me what to do especially run laps.Quote: mickeycrimmThat's right, Axel. Just got back from the bar. I slammed a couple dozen. Bought my friends their fill too. Clocked with a 91 MPH fastball at the age of 15.. At the age of 60 I'll still smoke your ass.
I was Very active when I was a kid, I played tons of Park football, Both kinds. I had a crazy single mom and did everything by myself, I would leave the house at dawn and not come home until 8 or 9 at night. Rode bikes, went camping, fishing hiking,target shooting(I practically lived in the woods with Bigfoot) YMCA swimming/diving, Karate including weapons, Boys club, lawn mowing business, Fighting.... hell even Bullying was a sport in the 80s.
Quote: AcesAndEightsExcept the question was specifically about pro sports. Even in AAU or high school though, basketball moves inside. I don't think there are any NBA players who played street ball their whole life and then joined the league, skipping high school.
But my point is that pro players all start somewhere. And in basketball the pros spent a lot of time in the conditions I am describing. In a gym or outside in summer, basketball is more of a hot, humid, sweaty game than the other three majors. True this is only one factor, I am just saying don't ignore it.
Quote: mickeycrimmAt the age of 60 I'll still smoke your ass.
Name the sport. And bring your wallet! ;)
Quote: tournamentkingThe NHL...how come they can't skate?
There are some, and many have been or will be remembered as “Greats”. I’m sure the names Jerome Iginla, Donald Brashear, P. K. Subban, Grant Fuhr, and Johnny Oduya are recognizable to anyone with a modicum of interest in the NHL.
But why the relative absence of blacks in hockey? Culture and economics, plain and simple.
I sometimes get the impression that our society isn't as fair and balanced as it should be.
Quote: FaceName the sport. And bring your wallet! ;)
Nineball, big fella. I hope you like sitting on your ass. Because that's what you will be doing the whole time. And I'm sober today, face. Bring not only your wallet, bring your bank president. You're going to need a loan. I don't work for cheap.
Quote: But why the relative absence of blacks in hockey? Culture and economics, plain and simple.[/q
"Brother's don't like the ice." Charles Barkley"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
I think that's pretty much sums it up. There are genetic differences that will make people better or worse at sports, and some of course some of those will come from your ancestors that gave you your skin colour and features.
Quote: AZDuffmanBut my point is that pro players all start somewhere. And in basketball the pros spent a lot of time in the conditions I am describing. In a gym or outside in summer, basketball is more of a hot, humid, sweaty game than the other three majors. True this is only one factor, I am just saying don't ignore it.
I guess my point is that no matter how you cut it, baseball is a more hot, humid, and sweaty game than basketball. Yes, sometimes basketball is played outdoors during the summer. More often it is played indoors with some kind of HVAC. Baseball is pretty much always played outdoor in the summer, and with more clothes on. And given the relative percentage of black athletes in basketball vs. baseball, I don't think this specific factor is a factor.
Some people don't consider billiards, darts, chess, Xbox or poker a sport. I do love pool(it's been a while), I prefer eight ball, BCA or bar rules is fine. Before I was 21 that how I supported myself from small games. I got schooled when I moved up and over to the LV Cue Club. I think I asked if anone from Vegas plays pool anywhere. For fun of courseQuote: mickeycrimm
Mickey what are the chances you will show up in Vegas in Dec during operation mission nuggets? I can get you some rooms and comps. If its something your interested in. Beer pool and gambling sound fun.
And that was pretty much the end of the JImmy the Greek's career. Beyond that tone statement, there was little evidence that Snyder harbored any racist sentiments, but, in light of the fact that he was a public figure representing a TV station, it should come as no surprise that the network canned his ass.
It's a new world, gents.
Quote: mickeycrimmNineball, big fella. I hope you like sitting on your ass. Because that's what you will be doing the whole time. And I'm sober today, face. Bring not only your wallet, bring your bank president. You're going to need a loan. I don't work for cheap.
I said "sport", not a barroom activity to break the monotony between the swigs of ale ;)
But hell, I ain't held a cue since about 2001, but next time I'm in Big Sky Country I'll see if we can set it up. If the worst that'll happen is I have to sit on my ass (with a tall cold one), I can hardly see a downside. And then I can add "beaten by a legend" to my resume =)
Quote: AcesAndEightsI guess my point is that no matter how you cut it, baseball is a more hot, humid, and sweaty game than basketball. Yes, sometimes basketball is played outdoors during the summer. More often it is played indoors with some kind of HVAC. Baseball is pretty much always played outdoor in the summer, and with more clothes on. And given the relative percentage of black athletes in basketball vs. baseball, I don't think this specific factor is a factor.
I dunno. In my 18ish years of hardball, I remember a lot of standing around. I mean a lot. I sweat more playing pond hockey in a Wisconsin winter than I ever did in any game of hardball, many times over. Weather being equal, I think hoops is even worse than football, even with the equipment. Hoops, at least how we played, is just non stop running, end to end, over and over. I think only soccer could be worse. I clearly remember almost fainting from heat stroke on the court many times. In hardball, I never once needed even splash my face with water.
Then again, I've never been known for stamina, and smashing a lineman at full speed once every 40 seconds is way easier for me than a slow jog over those same 40 seconds.
Anyways, hey! I made someone's sig line! ;)
Quote: MrVAnd let's not even get started on the disproportionate amount of blacks in our American prisons and jails.
I sometimes get the impression that our society isn't as fair and balanced as it should be.
So, you are saying that we should send people to prison based on a skin-color quota system and not on crimes committed?
Quote: MrV“The black is a better athlete to begin with because he’s been bred to be that way — because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. This goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trading, the owner — the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid.” --- Jimmy Snyder, aka Jimmy the Greek
And that was pretty much the end of the JImmy the Greek's career. Beyond that tone statement, there was little evidence that Snyder harbored any racist sentiments, but, in light of the fact that he was a public figure representing a TV station, it should come as no surprise that the network canned his ass.
It's a new world, gents.
Yet Bryant Gumbel was allowed to say, "So try not to laugh when someone says these are the world's greatest athletes despite a paucity of blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention."
Quote: AZDuffmanSo, you are saying that we should send people to prison based on a skin-color quota system and not on crimes committed?
Wake up, man. Been doing that since the 1980's.
The first mandatory minimums were established with a 100:1 sentencing ratio of crack vs. powder cocaine. This meant that a gram of crack yielded punishment equivalent to 100 grams of powder cocaine. In addition, possessing 28 grams or more of crack is a guaranteed sentence of at least five years in prison. For powder cocaine, it would take 500 grams, or half a kilo, which costs approximately $30,000 and weighs over one pound, to receive a five-year guaranteed sentence. Since crack users are predominantly black and powder users mostly white, many African-Americans were receiving prison sentences that were unjustifiably longer.
Quote: BuzzardWake up, man. Been doing that since the 1980's.
The first mandatory minimums were established with a 100:1 sentencing ratio of crack vs. powder cocaine. This meant that a gram of crack yielded punishment equivalent to 100 grams of powder cocaine. In addition, possessing 28 grams or more of crack is a guaranteed sentence of at least five years in prison. For powder cocaine, it would take 500 grams, or half a kilo, which costs approximately $30,000 and weighs over one pound, to receive a five-year guaranteed sentence. Since crack users are predominantly black and powder users mostly white, many African-Americans were receiving prison sentences that were unjustifiably longer.
Liberals have been spewing this line for years. Usually it is spewed by liberals who never have to live in or near a neighborhood crack use has destroyed.
Crack has been modified from cocaine and causes more violence which is why the different sentencing guidelines. But if people do not want to go to prison for selling crack, don't sell it. Problem solved.
White kid in suburbs dealing, suspended sentence usually, or allow to go into rehab. Black kid with a little crack, byebye for 5 years.
The fact is, most of the people currently in prison for drug violations aren't there because they committed violent crimes. On the contrary, the majority are low-level, nonviolent offenders who pose little threat to public safety. The reason they're still in prison isn't because they are more dangerous or violent than other drug offenders but because of the huge disparity in punishment between people convicted of selling crack cocaine and those guilty of selling the same drug in powder form.
Quote: AZDuffmanSo, you are saying that we should send people to prison based on a skin-color quota system and not on crimes committed?
You miss the point.
I ask: Why are a disproportionate amount of prisoners black?
Stated a bit differently: why are they so disenfranchised from the American Dream that they choose to commit a disproportionate amount of felonies?
That is the question.
