Syria
September 5th, 2013 at 12:23:29 PM
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OK. No worries....still gonna kick your butt on the NFL.
Also, Rosscat in the 4th. at Arlington today.
Also, Rosscat in the 4th. at Arlington today.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been written.
Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
September 5th, 2013 at 12:26:13 PM
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Please note I said Vietnam Era vet. Not Vietnam vet like so many assholes who never served there say. May 1962 USAF and had
a chance to become a Warrant Officer. Golden opportunity for an enlisted man. Train to be a helicopter pilot. First real combat for US troops was in January 1962. Nobody mentioned Vietnam, all too busy bitching about John Kennedy. I was stationed in Texas, people were still trying to figure out how Lyndon Johnson got to be Vice president.
Talk about dumb luck. Never got to be pilot. Needed 20/20 uncorrected. So I am alive today. Not good news for everybody, but I like it.
a chance to become a Warrant Officer. Golden opportunity for an enlisted man. Train to be a helicopter pilot. First real combat for US troops was in January 1962. Nobody mentioned Vietnam, all too busy bitching about John Kennedy. I was stationed in Texas, people were still trying to figure out how Lyndon Johnson got to be Vice president.
Talk about dumb luck. Never got to be pilot. Needed 20/20 uncorrected. So I am alive today. Not good news for everybody, but I like it.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 5th, 2013 at 12:27:15 PM
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Quote: steeldcoOK. No worries....still gonna kick your butt on the NFL.
Also, Rosscat in the 4th. at Arlington today.
Side bets are allowed. Have one with Beach Babs, Evidently she is not a sissy.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 5th, 2013 at 12:34:32 PM
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Quote: FrankScoblete
But what if some small country the size of Panama did it?
Quote:Russia today dismissed Britain as “a small island nobody listens to” .
The spat came at the G20 summit in St Petersburg where David Cameron has vigorously backed America’s call for air strikes on Syria.
Amid deep divisions among the world nations, the meeting descended into acrimony with Russia turning on Britain for supporting the US.
“Britain is a small island - nobody pays any attention to them apart from Russian oligarchs who have bought up Chelsea,” said a spokesman for the Russian President Vladimir Putin, Syria’s closest ally.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/g20-summit-russia-dismisses-britain-2254433
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 5th, 2013 at 12:40:17 PM
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Buzz, there ya go. Rosscat won.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been written.
Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
September 5th, 2013 at 12:46:06 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesMcCain's too busy playing online poker to know what the hell us going on.
Only thing I have seen him do that I liked. I think that is actually very common to do during the long debates.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 5th, 2013 at 12:48:08 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 6th, 2013 at 2:37:22 AM
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McCain likes to gamble. He's played at Bellagio a few times. However, his playing while the hearing was going on means that the hearing was just a show for the public. He knew what the decision would be. Unless there is some amazing thing going on that we don't know about, I don't understand why we are being pushed to "Pearl Harbor" Syria.
September 7th, 2013 at 6:20:02 AM
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Quote: boymimboThe United Nations is supposed to be the world's watchdog, and because of geopolitical issues and the rights for the big countries to veto security council votes, it's become useless for making those decisions (the United Nations is useful for alot of other good things in the world).
This is something that it looks like a situation where both sides (Liberals/Conservatives or Republicans/Democrats, however you choose to split them) have grudgingly come to an agreement. The role reversal would be laughable if it weren't serious business because both sides show way to much willingness to give in to political will rather than actually taking a consistent stand.
The UN is not capable in the current configuration of acting as a watchdog. It is time to recognize that and limit any funding to the UN to humanitarian causes only. The veto held by the superpowers means that everyone in the security council can vote to condemn the chemical attacks but Russia (or, flipping it around, the US) can simply veto that measure and ignore the evidence(if enough evidence was presented, of course).
I'm not saying that we should be totally isolationist; we should spend our money (money coming out of the pockets of taxpayers--not some imaginary pot of gold as some in government consider our taxes) in places where it can better advance our positions, not where we are stifled at every corner.
As for this strike, the President has waited too long to act. He has painted himself in a corner that will be hard to exit. I think he will squeak by and get the votes he needs to support a strike but it will be more out of support for the Presidency than in support of the President.
September 7th, 2013 at 6:30:10 AM
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My feeling is that it is Russia's problem to solve. Painting Russia into the lone supporter of a regime that controls its citizens through chemical weapons might force them to take action against Assad.
Any unilateral action by the United States against Syria without Russia's assistance or blessing will increase worldwide tensions between the two superpowers. China will likely take an ambivalent position because of its trade positions with both superpowers.
On the diplomacy front, America is failing. IMO, John Kerry is a useless twit at State. It should have been very easy to convince the world to do something about the Assad regime, but he failed. At worst, an acceptable action would be the threat of violence with coalition forces with Russia stepping in to tell Assad to stop using its chemical stockpile (or else). At best, the US should have been able to broker a diplomatic solution.
Obama's been limping this along because of the unexpected lack of worldwide support. It's embarassing.
Even mimbos can have a bit of an open mind.
Any unilateral action by the United States against Syria without Russia's assistance or blessing will increase worldwide tensions between the two superpowers. China will likely take an ambivalent position because of its trade positions with both superpowers.
On the diplomacy front, America is failing. IMO, John Kerry is a useless twit at State. It should have been very easy to convince the world to do something about the Assad regime, but he failed. At worst, an acceptable action would be the threat of violence with coalition forces with Russia stepping in to tell Assad to stop using its chemical stockpile (or else). At best, the US should have been able to broker a diplomatic solution.
Obama's been limping this along because of the unexpected lack of worldwide support. It's embarassing.
Even mimbos can have a bit of an open mind.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 7th, 2013 at 7:02:10 AM
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Auschwitz was in Poland. Perhaps you mean Dachau.Quote: AZDuffmanWhere is there another Auschwitz happening?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
September 7th, 2013 at 7:59:30 AM
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Quote: boymimboOn the diplomacy front, America is failing. IMO, John Kerry is a useless twit at State. It should have been very easy to convince the world to do something about the Assad regime, but he failed. At worst, an acceptable action would be the threat of violence with coalition forces with Russia stepping in to tell Assad to stop using its chemical stockpile (or else). At best, the US should have been able to broker a diplomatic solution.
The blame for our foreign policy failures belongs with the President. The buck, no matter where he'd like it to stop, stops with him. He spent all that time calling out President Bush for his policies; for him not to "own" foreign policy at this point is a total joke.
Kerry does stink...we agree. Their press folks (Carney and those at State) trivialize everything--cheapening the Presidency. What is our foreign policy?
As much as I opposed President Obama in the election, I am not one of those who wants him to fail on foreign policy. A lot of domestic policy can be fixed, but failing on the international front causes problems that last much longer than a couple of terms of a Presidency.
September 7th, 2013 at 8:01:53 AM
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Quote: BuzzardSide bets are allowed. Have one with Beach Babs, Evidently she is not a sissy.
Heeheeheeheehee...indeed.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 7th, 2013 at 8:11:13 AM
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Quote: FrankScobleteMcCain likes to gamble. He's played at Bellagio a few times. However, his playing while the hearing was going on means that the hearing was just a show for the public. He knew what the decision would be. Unless there is some amazing thing going on that we don't know about, I don't understand why we are being pushed to "Pearl Harbor" Syria.
IMHO, we are being pushed to "Pearl Harbor" Syria for 2 reasons; 1. President Obama is genuinely sickened by the images and proof of actual actions coming out of Syria and he has the power to do something about it. 2. There has been a strong push, led by Senator McCain among others, for about 2 years for us to intervene there, mostly from the neocon wing of the Republican party in league with the military-industrial complex. The White House has strongly resisted that call before now. I think this is a "put up or shut up" move on their part to Congress; if those calling for intervention can prevail in the court of public opinion and the halls of Congress, the President is now willing to reverse his stance in this limited case. Though I'm not sure the US will go it alone even so; our ally support is incredibly thin on taking action.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 7th, 2013 at 8:49:32 AM
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Syria may choose to use chemical weapons again, and this "so-called" box that Obama made himself will be enjoyed by all for as long as they continue.
Or, it may not.
But you can't really predict the future.
Or, it may not.
But you can't really predict the future.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 7th, 2013 at 9:28:19 AM
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Quote: RonCHe spent all that time calling out President Bush for his policies; for him not to "own" foreign policy at this point is a total joke.
Okay, RonC tell me the decision Obama would have made on Syria that wouldn't bring him heavy criticism from the rightwing?
There's a good angle no matter which path you choose.
3 possible headlines for Fox News depending on what Obama does.
"Noble Peace Price winner ignores slaughter"
or
"Obama rushes to judgment to bomb Syria like his predecessor he criticized."
or
(When Obama slow to decide)
"Obama waivers"
Political opportunists. Nothing new.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 7th, 2013 at 9:57:00 AM
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Quote: rxwineOkay, RonC tell me the decision Obama would have made on Syria that wouldn't bring him heavy criticism from the rightwing?
There's a good angle no matter which path you choose.
3 possible headlines for Fox News depending on what Obama does.
"Noble Peace Price winner ignores slaughter"
or
"Obama rushes to judgment to bomb Syria like his predecessor he criticized."
or
(When Obama slow to decide)
"Obama waivers"
Political opportunists. Nothing new.
I'm not worried about what Fox says. I already said that I hoped the President would have a successful foreign policy.
So far, he doesn't.
I agree...there will always be political opportunists. That doesn't make the President's foreign policy record any better or worse. Why can't we talk about that part of it instead of what Fox might say? MSNBC says some very strange stuff and you don't seem to come down on them...
How well do you think the President's foreign policy is working? Are we regarded as seriously now as we were before he was President?
September 7th, 2013 at 10:57:43 AM
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This is yet another issue where opposition to intervention is muted by those who would have protested in the streets if Governor Bush was still President:
"Another reason some Hollywood progressives have been reticent to speak out against war in Syria, according to Asner, is fear of being called racist.
"A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," he said."
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/syria-why-hollywoods-anti-war-623326
Mr. Asner, being against the President's positions or policies is not anti-black. Being against him because he is black would be.
"Another reason some Hollywood progressives have been reticent to speak out against war in Syria, according to Asner, is fear of being called racist.
"A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," he said."
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/syria-why-hollywoods-anti-war-623326
Mr. Asner, being against the President's positions or policies is not anti-black. Being against him because he is black would be.
September 7th, 2013 at 11:23:05 AM
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Quote: RonCHow well do you think the President's foreign policy is working? Are we regarded as seriously now as we were before he was President?
You mean GW came out of his term with foreign policy respect?
Here's Bush intimidating Russia unsuccessfully:
Quote:U.S. president George W. Bush's statement to Russia was: "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century."[339] "Russia has invaded a sovereign neighbouring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people," said Mr Bush. "Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century." [340] The US Embassy in Georgia, describing the Matthew Bryza press-conference, called the war an "incursion by one of the world's strongest powers to destroy the democratically elected government of a smaller neighbor".[341]
Initially the Bush Administration considered a military response to defend Georgia, but such an intervention was ruled out due to the inevitable conflict it would lead to with Russia.[342][343] Instead, Bush opted for a softer option by sending humanitarian supplies to Georgia by military, rather than civilian, aircraft.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 7th, 2013 at 11:42:53 AM
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Quote: rxwineYou mean GW came out of his term with foreign policy respect?
I am not saying that Governor Bush had a highly successful record on foreign policy as President. My questions was whether we are more respected now than we were before this President took office.
Is it that hard to keep from talking about other Presidents? Let's concentrate on the one we have now. The others? They are not President.
September 7th, 2013 at 12:09:24 PM
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Quote: RonCMy questions was whether we are more respected now than we were before this President took office.
America is just as criticized as it ever has been.
Pretty sure Saddam was a blowhard to the end with a rope around his neck. If you mean do our enemies pay lip service to having respect for America. They never really did.
If you mean are conservative run governments abroad respectful; never were going to be with Obama president.
Did you mean more liberal governments were likely harder on the guy I can't mention. Sure.
So...
Obama probably goes more right than the unnamed ever went left, so he does generate critics from the left.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 7th, 2013 at 12:19:46 PM
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Quote: rxwineAmerica is just as criticized as it ever has been.
Pretty sure Saddam was a blowhard to the end with a rope around his neck. If you mean do our enemies pay lip service to having respect for America. They never really did.
If you mean are conservative run governments abroad respectful; never were going to be with Obama president.
Did you mean more liberal governments were likely harder on the guy I can't mention. Sure.
So...
Obama probably goes more right than the unnamed ever went left, so he does generate critics from the left.
The answer is that we are less respected around the world than we were before he was President. He has not done a good job with foreign policy. He told us his policies would help us gain more respect. They haven't.
I don't see what that is so hard to admit...
September 7th, 2013 at 12:33:49 PM
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Quote: RonCThe answer is that we are less respected around the world than we were before he was President.
You don't say. Knock me over with a feather.
Those WMDs are right there in Iraq. Obama has to push that stone up a hill now, as far as some of the world is concerned.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 7th, 2013 at 12:44:40 PM
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Quote: rxwineYou don't say. Knock me over with a feather.
Those WMDs are right there in Iraq. Obama has to push that stone up a hill now, as far as some of the world is concerned.
You're right. Gosh. You are always right. You've been right all along. The job was too tough because the guy before him was so bad. Too bad he was so smart that he did not even see that coming. Four letter word totally ruined everything.
It is a beautiful thing that we have created: The President who bears no responsibility for anything.
September 7th, 2013 at 1:23:32 PM
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Hi Frank. Well written.
Do you by chance know of the incident on the USS Liberty in 1967 during Israel's six day war? Take a little time and watch the free documentary and a
Lot of questions will be very clear. No weird conspiracy just unclassified facts. This has nothing to do with Syria, let me know if you find it, it's pretty easy.
Do you by chance know of the incident on the USS Liberty in 1967 during Israel's six day war? Take a little time and watch the free documentary and a
Lot of questions will be very clear. No weird conspiracy just unclassified facts. This has nothing to do with Syria, let me know if you find it, it's pretty easy.
September 7th, 2013 at 2:19:24 PM
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I have to admit that he does not handle issues abroad well at all. It's at this point that I really do wish that McCain had gotten the ticket. Sad that we as a society are in such dire straits to not have a worthy leader when it comes to issues abroad.
Just Me.......
September 7th, 2013 at 3:23:18 PM
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The partisan stuff is irrelevant to me. I really don't care if you think Bush did the right thing or if he did the wrong thing. I can't go back in time and change anything. But I can say that a "Pearl Harboring" of Syria is wrong. I do think, and this is merely an opinion, that Obama was trying to act tough when he said he had a "red line" (even though he now denies he said it). I've met people who do such things, trying to act tough; often they are on the Internet, hiding behind fake names and lashing out. But the President shouldn't do that because you see what can happen? So the "you-know-what" has hit the fan. Now are we supposed to bomb a country that has done nothing to us?
I would have respect for Obama if he said, "You know, I should not have said what I said. We have no business in Syria."
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I just went to Amazon to look up info in the 1967 attack on the U.S.S. Liberty. http://www.amazon.com/Attack-Liberty-Untold-Israels-Assault/dp/1416554823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378591617&sr=1-1&keywords=attack+on+the+uss+liberty
I bought the book and will read it. I do have a vague memory of that. I was in college in those days.
Still, I do have a very simplistic attitude towards Israel; it is this: If I were forced to live in any Middle Eastern Country where would it be? Obviously for me it would be Israel and not just because I have a lot of Jewish friends. With that as my world view I still am not happy with the Israeli spy (I forget his name) we captured and imprisoned. Israel isn't perfect --- but I do wish she had oil!
I would have respect for Obama if he said, "You know, I should not have said what I said. We have no business in Syria."
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I just went to Amazon to look up info in the 1967 attack on the U.S.S. Liberty. http://www.amazon.com/Attack-Liberty-Untold-Israels-Assault/dp/1416554823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378591617&sr=1-1&keywords=attack+on+the+uss+liberty
I bought the book and will read it. I do have a vague memory of that. I was in college in those days.
Still, I do have a very simplistic attitude towards Israel; it is this: If I were forced to live in any Middle Eastern Country where would it be? Obviously for me it would be Israel and not just because I have a lot of Jewish friends. With that as my world view I still am not happy with the Israeli spy (I forget his name) we captured and imprisoned. Israel isn't perfect --- but I do wish she had oil!
September 7th, 2013 at 3:31:33 PM
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I think he will bomb no matter what Congress decides. Still trying to figure out why right wing of Republican party now think McCain
is an idiot !
is an idiot !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 7th, 2013 at 3:33:25 PM
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Israel isn't perfect --- but I do wish she had oil!
Why did Moses leas them to the onlyplace in the Middle East that has no oil? Just wondering.
Why did Moses leas them to the onlyplace in the Middle East that has no oil? Just wondering.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 7th, 2013 at 3:48:08 PM
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I don't think McCain would have handled this any better, but I don't want to get into a pissing contest.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 7th, 2013 at 5:17:39 PM
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I'm glad your going to read the book Frank, try watching the documentary. I included the link in my last.
It's uncanny when compared to Syria.
In 1967 Israel nearly sunk the USS Liberty including machine-gunning the life-boat. A lot of Sailors were lost, I think 47 with about 150 wounded. The aircraft were unmarked. It is now clear that Israel wanted to draw us into the war with Egypt therefore engaging Iran to enter. You'll find that the highest command gave orders to all onboard not to discuss this with even their wives. The Captain finally did 3 years prior to his death as did some of Israel's leadership.
In 1967 the U.S. needed something to take the American's minds off of the Vietnam war. Today, The U.S. needed something to deter us from watching the Media (or what is left of it) daily stories about the NSA.
Today's Syria is 1967's Egypt.
Remember the famous photograph of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand? That was, I believe 1989. We sold him Chemical Weapons at that time. During the 80's Iran and Iraq were at war and Iran was winning. In late 1989 the U.S. satalite picks up a "hole" in Iraq's Northern flank at the same time Iran was massing troops ready to enter. We turned over, to Iraq, the images and intel. This is where Saddam uses Chemical Weapons on his own people, the Kurds, as they lived on that same boarder. We, the U.S. did not want in any way for Iran to win that war. Why do I mention this? We knew that he was using the Chemical Weapons we sold him and were ok with it.
IMO, this is about Iran and not a bit to do with Syria.
I'd really like to see what you have to say after watching the documentary. There seems to be a very high degree of intelligence here.
Gotta say, President Carter gets a pretty bad rap but during his term he never fired one single shot and had time to put up Solar Panels on the White House.....
Best.
It's uncanny when compared to Syria.
In 1967 Israel nearly sunk the USS Liberty including machine-gunning the life-boat. A lot of Sailors were lost, I think 47 with about 150 wounded. The aircraft were unmarked. It is now clear that Israel wanted to draw us into the war with Egypt therefore engaging Iran to enter. You'll find that the highest command gave orders to all onboard not to discuss this with even their wives. The Captain finally did 3 years prior to his death as did some of Israel's leadership.
In 1967 the U.S. needed something to take the American's minds off of the Vietnam war. Today, The U.S. needed something to deter us from watching the Media (or what is left of it) daily stories about the NSA.
Today's Syria is 1967's Egypt.
Remember the famous photograph of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand? That was, I believe 1989. We sold him Chemical Weapons at that time. During the 80's Iran and Iraq were at war and Iran was winning. In late 1989 the U.S. satalite picks up a "hole" in Iraq's Northern flank at the same time Iran was massing troops ready to enter. We turned over, to Iraq, the images and intel. This is where Saddam uses Chemical Weapons on his own people, the Kurds, as they lived on that same boarder. We, the U.S. did not want in any way for Iran to win that war. Why do I mention this? We knew that he was using the Chemical Weapons we sold him and were ok with it.
IMO, this is about Iran and not a bit to do with Syria.
I'd really like to see what you have to say after watching the documentary. There seems to be a very high degree of intelligence here.
Gotta say, President Carter gets a pretty bad rap but during his term he never fired one single shot and had time to put up Solar Panels on the White House.....
Best.
September 7th, 2013 at 6:59:34 PM
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" In 1967 the U.S. needed something to take the American's minds off of the Vietnam war."
But didn't everyone have pleasant memories ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EHGVBXf57M
But didn't everyone have pleasant memories ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EHGVBXf57M
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 7th, 2013 at 7:09:23 PM
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If Egypt, Syria and Lebanon, to name just three countries, do have oil, it does not seem to have been discovered and used. But those three did make out by being conduits to transport the single most important commodity in the world today.Quote: BuzzardWhy did Moses leas them to the only place in the Middle East that has no oil? Just wondering.
September 7th, 2013 at 7:13:11 PM
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Hi buzzard, when I wrote the U.S. I meant the Goverment not the people. I was writing in context of the Goverment shifting focus away for the time being.
On another note, I found it interesting that the President was just ready to pull the trigger and then the UK voted it down, then, right after, he announced he would take it to
The house. The sad thing is that 2016 will not change a thing. There is only one option left. Overturning "citizens united" with a 2/3 majority convention.
Do you think our Goverment is not getting ready for this?
On another note, I found it interesting that the President was just ready to pull the trigger and then the UK voted it down, then, right after, he announced he would take it to
The house. The sad thing is that 2016 will not change a thing. There is only one option left. Overturning "citizens united" with a 2/3 majority convention.
Do you think our Goverment is not getting ready for this?
September 7th, 2013 at 7:14:22 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaIf Egypt, Syria and Lebanon, to name just three countries, do have oil, it does not seem to have been discovered and used. But those three did make out by being conduits to transport the single most important commodity in the world today.
Exactly, Pipeline Passage. And these guys along with Iran, Russia and China want to purchase oil with their own currency. Today, oil must be purchased with the dollar otherwise known as the Petro-Dollar. Do you know what will happen if countries stop using our dollar to purchase oil? Complete collapse of the Dollar.
September 7th, 2013 at 7:19:02 PM
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I think taking it to the house was his plan all along. Still think it's bombs away no matter what the house votes. He is the commander-in-chief and needs no more justification than the following :
Hundreds of children's bodies piled high after nerve gas attack near Damascus.
Hundreds of children's bodies piled high after nerve gas attack near Damascus.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 7th, 2013 at 7:21:52 PM
permalink
Syria *had* oil. It used to produce 660,000bbl of oil/day, now it's down to 150K. Syria is really not about oil or the transport of oil.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 7th, 2013 at 7:24:21 PM
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Syria is about genocide and insanity. My invisible man is better than your invisible man.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 7th, 2013 at 8:02:29 PM
permalink
I think the President is right. A red line was crossed. After WWI, 182 countries signed law banning chemical weapons use. So when the red line was crossed, it was a red line implied by the policy of the USA and 181 other sovereign nations. These laws didn't say should the red line be crossed and chemical weapons were used to kill, that airstrike are the resolution and desired punishment. If nothing is done, then the World looks weak. 182 populations have polices that say using chemical weapons are wrong, yet no one has the answer on how to deal with the offenders.
I also read that the gas attack was done by the rebels. They admitted to it August 30. Back in March, 2 Syrian rebels were arrested for having 2 kilos of nerve gas in a can along the Turkish and Syrian border. While I'm sure chemicals were in use, I can't make a positive connection that is beyond reasonable doubt. As for what to do about it, and how to punish the offenders, there aren't very many options. If nothing is done then it shows that the 182 have no idea how to handle offenders.
As for Iraq's chemical weapons use in 1993, I can say it took 15 years to bring Saddam to justice. Waiting seemed to work there and eventually justice found Hussein. It was expensive for sure. Using inflation 2001 to 2008, and 1993 to 2000, it would have been cheaper to take him out 20 years ago, but GHWB wanted to run for re-election without an active war. When he lost, the cost went up. I think it will be cheaper to take out Assad starting today than to wait for some opportunity to open up 15 years from now. The current inflation rate for 2013 is 1% lower than it was back in 1993.
Russia and the other 180 aren't going to man up and come up with a solid solution that's good for both Syria and the convention. However, the US seems to be saying it's man enough to do something about it regardless of what the People say, it's the US policy to punish those who use chemical weapons.
I also read that the gas attack was done by the rebels. They admitted to it August 30. Back in March, 2 Syrian rebels were arrested for having 2 kilos of nerve gas in a can along the Turkish and Syrian border. While I'm sure chemicals were in use, I can't make a positive connection that is beyond reasonable doubt. As for what to do about it, and how to punish the offenders, there aren't very many options. If nothing is done then it shows that the 182 have no idea how to handle offenders.
As for Iraq's chemical weapons use in 1993, I can say it took 15 years to bring Saddam to justice. Waiting seemed to work there and eventually justice found Hussein. It was expensive for sure. Using inflation 2001 to 2008, and 1993 to 2000, it would have been cheaper to take him out 20 years ago, but GHWB wanted to run for re-election without an active war. When he lost, the cost went up. I think it will be cheaper to take out Assad starting today than to wait for some opportunity to open up 15 years from now. The current inflation rate for 2013 is 1% lower than it was back in 1993.
Russia and the other 180 aren't going to man up and come up with a solid solution that's good for both Syria and the convention. However, the US seems to be saying it's man enough to do something about it regardless of what the People say, it's the US policy to punish those who use chemical weapons.
Buffering...
September 7th, 2013 at 8:13:52 PM
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Quote: BuzzardI think taking it to the house was his plan all along. Still think it's bombs away no matter what the house votes. He is the commander-in-chief and needs no more justification than the following :
Hundreds of children's bodies piled high after nerve gas attack near Damascus.
I have no problem with standing against WMD--bombs away.
My point has always been that wishy-washy impresses no one and makes one look weak. Say what you mean; mean what you say.
If the issue is the composition of the rebels--with our known enemies among them--or the source of the gas being unclear (was it the rebels that did it?), then say it!!
September 7th, 2013 at 8:45:37 PM
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In Syria's case, I don't think the US gets a free pass from Russia, especially if it goes it alone.
As for the rebels using chemical weapons first, there is no verifiable proof. Then again, it's difficult to give the US credibilty given the snow job it gave the populace over WMD in Iraq.
But yeah, the 181 other countries that signed the ban are looking the other way, and that is despicable.
As for the rebels using chemical weapons first, there is no verifiable proof. Then again, it's difficult to give the US credibilty given the snow job it gave the populace over WMD in Iraq.
But yeah, the 181 other countries that signed the ban are looking the other way, and that is despicable.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 7th, 2013 at 9:08:44 PM
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Really, kind of odd when you think about it, that everybody's backing away. I haven't quite put my finger on why, except that maybe the rebels are so unpalatable themselves, and rumors are flying that they're Al Quaida supported or based. Even if that's true, it's not justification for killing non-combatants or genocide by either side. But there's also us arming the Afghani rebels in the 1980's against the USSR coming back to haunt us, with those who were children we helped fighting us now. I think I'm glad I'm not with the State Department trying to sort this heap of spaghetti out.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 7th, 2013 at 9:28:46 PM
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If anything, I would leave it to the Russians to destroy Syria's chemical weapons facilities. Russia is by far Syria's closest ally. Russia has the means to do something both diplomatically and militarily. The world should be be putting political pressure on Russia and China to do something to quell Syria's use of the weapons.
Obama/Kerry should step back and make a public statement calling on Russia and China (signers of the Chemical Weapons Convention) to stop the chemical warfare in Syria and leave it at that. Single them out and continue to put diplomatic and political pressure on them to do something.
Obama/Kerry should step back and make a public statement calling on Russia and China (signers of the Chemical Weapons Convention) to stop the chemical warfare in Syria and leave it at that. Single them out and continue to put diplomatic and political pressure on them to do something.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 8th, 2013 at 5:31:44 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabsReally, kind of odd when you think about it, that everybody's backing away. I haven't quite put my finger on why, except that maybe the rebels are so unpalatable themselves, and rumors are flying that they're Al Quaida supported or based. Even if that's true, it's not justification for killing non-combatants or genocide by either side. But there's also us arming the Afghani rebels in the 1980's against the USSR coming back to haunt us, with those who were children we helped fighting us now. I think I'm glad I'm not with the State Department trying to sort this heap of spaghetti out.
The reason everybody is backing away is found in the fable of the mice who want to put a bell on the cat so they know if it is near. They all agree it is a great idea. But when it comes time to see who should put the bell on the cat, no volunteers can be found.
The truth is that Syria threatens nobody on the outside at this time. Israel is their only contiguous enemy, and they can handle them. Turkey is not exactly a friend, but they are not going to attack the Turks. For everyone else besides the USA, they may be appalled, but militarily they can do nothing.
Arming people who later fight us is no new thing. A nation has no permanent allies, only permanent interests. We need to let this alone.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 8th, 2013 at 6:43:14 AM
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Here is a disturbing thought about Syria. While there is no evidence that this is true, there is as much evidence for this scenario as there is (at the moment) for Assad actually having used chemical weapons.
What if it were the rebels who used chemical weapons? How would we handle that since they are scattered over much of the country? Is the area where the people were hit by chemical weapons areas of the secular rebels? Was this a way for the extreme religious rebels to nail their future opponents?
Now, just as food for thought: If the rebels did the chemical attack is Obama going to attack them? How would he do this? They are all over the place. Would he simply drop bombs on the cities and villages where he thinks the rebels have the largest populations?
Again I think we do not "Pearl Harbor" anything in Syria.
If, as some think, this is really about Iran, then decalre war against Iran and go after them. But caution is warranted here as well. Iran has a strong secular group that would be allies of America. Do we want to kill these people? Or should we figure another way to give them a shot at taking down the mullahs?
Just some thoughts.
What if it were the rebels who used chemical weapons? How would we handle that since they are scattered over much of the country? Is the area where the people were hit by chemical weapons areas of the secular rebels? Was this a way for the extreme religious rebels to nail their future opponents?
Now, just as food for thought: If the rebels did the chemical attack is Obama going to attack them? How would he do this? They are all over the place. Would he simply drop bombs on the cities and villages where he thinks the rebels have the largest populations?
Again I think we do not "Pearl Harbor" anything in Syria.
If, as some think, this is really about Iran, then decalre war against Iran and go after them. But caution is warranted here as well. Iran has a strong secular group that would be allies of America. Do we want to kill these people? Or should we figure another way to give them a shot at taking down the mullahs?
Just some thoughts.
September 8th, 2013 at 7:49:45 AM
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Quote: FrankScobleteHere is a disturbing thought about Syria. While there is no evidence that this is true, there is as much evidence for this scenario as there is (at the moment) for Assad actually having used chemical weapons.
Here is another disturbing thought. What if they find the store of weapons and they are stamped, "Made in Iraq?"
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 9th, 2013 at 1:10:46 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanWe need to let this alone.
You may get your wish.
If the Russians and Assad government are serious about putting the chem weapons under international control and or possibly ship them out of the country and destroy them and it's not just a stall, it is also an opportunity to say "look now America, now you back off and let the sides fight it out" since there's no violation of international treaty. (of course Russia and America, who knows who else will continue behind the scenes either way)
Also, apparently this is the first time Syria has officially admitted even having chemical weapons.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 9th, 2013 at 1:20:22 PM
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Quote: rxwineYou may get your wish.
If the Russians and Assad government are serious about putting the chem weapons under international control and or possibly ship them out of the country and destroy them and it's not just a stall, it is also an opportunity to say "look now America, now you back off and let the sides fight it out" since there's no violation of international treaty. (of course Russia and America, who knows who else will continue behind the scenes either way)
Also, apparently this is the first time Syria has officially admitted even having chemical weapons.
A smart move on their part. Saddam played cat and mouse games for 12 years with inspectors. Syria can easily play even longer what with actually having a friendly nation or two in Iran and Russia plus if they leave Israel alone few will care what they do. Iraq attacked 4 neighbor nations unprovoked during the Hussein era in addition to the Kurds. They still got to play games over and over.
People cannot accept that civil war in Syria is good for our interests. It isn't the Iran-Iraq war or Operation Barbarossa, but letting them fight it out weakens an enemy.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 9th, 2013 at 4:49:52 PM
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What Assad has continually denied is his ordering the use of the Sarin.Quote: rxwineAlso, apparently this is the first time Syria has officially admitted even having chemical weapons.
September 9th, 2013 at 4:59:11 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaWhat Assad has continually denied is his ordering the use of the Sarin.
Oh well, that settles it for me.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
