Edward Snowden: Hero or Traitor?
If Martin Luther King planned civil disobedience in Alabama and instead of going to jail fled the country to hide out in communist China would he be considered a hero? No way. Much like any criminal, his fleeing shows his civil disobedience against an unjust law (or governmental action) to be cowardly. King was a hero.
If Gandhi did the same? He didn't. Gandhi is a hero.
Or the fathers of the American revolution? What if these people stood up, made great speeches, preached revolution and then fled to Mexico? They didn't. They are heroes.
What of our early labor union leaders? Tell everyone to stand up to the coal mining industry and then run when the company brought in their goons? They stayed and took their clobbering. They were heroes.
These individuals advocated civil disobedience and took the consequencies. That is the whole idea behind such disobedience. By the way, civil disobedience does not mean polite disobedience. Certainly when the civil rights workers refused to leave segregated lunch counters, they were not polite. They just said no.
Had Edward Snowden stayed in America, allowed himself to be arrested, used his defiance of what he thought an unjust policy of the Federal government, then there might be some justification in labeling him a hero of the civil disobedience philosophy. Running away means he knew he did wrong and he fled his country because of his wrong-doing.
Heroes are not made of such stuff. Cowards are. Traitors are. NSA may be wrong in what it is doing, but Snowden is no hero for exposing it. He merely exposed himself.
Who needs that?
The guy is no martyr.
Seems to me he's "on the cusp" between fink and whistleblower.
Kind of reminds me of the so-called feminists who railed against Clarence Thomas in 1991, yet they practically glued their own mouths shut a few years later when it was Bill Clinton on the hot seat.
Of course, this came out before, and it was ruled legal. So I wouldn't call him a "hero" either, since he's only told us a bit more loudly what we already knew.
Quote: Beethoven9thWhenever I read the news, I get a kick out of the people who proudly cheered on Bradley Manning and Julian Assange (not to mention Chris Dorner), yet they are now criticizing Snowden.
I guess you're old enough to know this: principled politicians do not exist.
Quote: NareedI guess you're old enough to know this: principled politicians do not exist.
I include the general public as well. For instance, I personally know quite a few people who had no problem with Manning & Assange, yet they think Snowden is pretty much Satan.
Quote: Beethoven9thI include the general public as well. For instance, I personally know quite a few people who had no problem with Manning & Assange, yet they think Snowden is pretty much Satan.
Of course. It's a lot easier to ask "Which party is he on?" or "Which party does this hurt?" than "Is this action ethical?"
Quote: Beethoven9thI include the general public as well. For instance, I personally know quite a few people who had no problem with Manning & Assange, yet they think Snowden is pretty much Satan.
Assange is a publicity seeking jerk who cares little for 'truth' except where it can further Assange. He's riding on the backs of whistleblowers (like Manning), but doesn't like it when someone blows the whistle on him. Screw him. Screw wikileaks.
Quote: FrankScobleteEdward Snowden released the info on the NSA phone spying. Is he a hero in the "civil disobedience" framework or a simple traitor to his country?
If Martin Luther King planned civil disobedience in Alabama and instead of going to jail fled the country to hide out in communist China would he be considered a hero? No way. Much like any criminal, his fleeing shows his civil disobedience against an unjust law (or governmental action) to be cowardly. King was a hero.
Do you make exceptions to those fleeing N. Korea?
Anyway, I'm not absolutely sure further conversation in a national security area wouldn't be suppressed if he was in the U.S. Yes, civil disobedience, in general, people will speak from jail about workers rights. I can see a difference between continued discussion about security affairs vs a lot of other stuff.
Still that doesn't make him a hero. But from the viewpoint of what he was revealing it was more likely he was going to be shutdown as soon as they got a hold of him.
Outside the grip of authority, he can still make some counterpoint to accusations against his charges.
Quote: FrankScobleteEdward Snowden released the info on the NSA phone spying. Is he a hero in the "civil disobedience" framework or a simple traitor to his country?
If Martin Luther King planned civil disobedience in Alabama and instead of going to jail fled the country to hide out in communist China would he be considered a hero? No way. Much like any criminal, his fleeing shows his civil disobedience against an unjust law (or governmental action) to be cowardly. King was a hero.
If Gandhi did the same? He didn't. Gandhi is a hero.
Or the fathers of the American revolution? What if these people stood up, made great speeches, preached revolution and then fled to Mexico? They didn't. They are heroes.
What of our early labor union leaders? Tell everyone to stand up to the coal mining industry and then run when the company brought in their goons? They stayed and took their clobbering. They were heroes.
These individuals advocated civil disobedience and took the consequencies. That is the whole idea behind such disobedience. By the way, civil disobedience does not mean polite disobedience. Certainly when the civil rights workers refused to leave segregated lunch counters, they were not polite. They just said no.
Had Edward Snowden stayed in America, allowed himself to be arrested, used his defiance of what he thought an unjust policy of the Federal government, then there might be some justification in labeling him a hero of the civil disobedience philosophy. Running away means he knew he did wrong and he fled his country because of his wrong-doing.
Heroes are not made of such stuff. Cowards are. Traitors are. NSA may be wrong in what it is doing, but Snowden is no hero for exposing it. He merely exposed himself.
Snowed on didn't reveal anything that wasn't already public knowledge. This info has been out there easily accessible to anyone that cared to be an informed citizen. This is just another trial balloon that will divert the masses until the next celebrity goes into rehab or gets pregnant and isn't really sure who the father is. The public has already forgot about benghazi [probably because Hillary will be the next president] what a disgusting thought that is. There is no waking the masses without a reset.
"Truth is treason in the empire of lies" [RP, GO, others]
The labor leader's you mention. The mine worker's in Virginia or the massacred Ludlow miner's in Colorado, who even know's about their sacrifice? Or who even care's?
"Complain all you want about the system. After all it's a free country. Just never ever question the system itself and all it's supporting lies and deceipt. That might just get you two to the back of the head if you're of sufficient influence or threat" [zh]
The enemies of the mic already knew about the surveillance. How do you think they target our drones??? The only people that weren't aware of what's been disclosed are the people who are paying for all this and who are largely innocent of anything other than free speech. Does anybody think for a second of how the fbi had general Patraeus email exchange with his concubine within minutes? There's a big game being played and we arn't in it. "George Carlin"
How would you get the masses to even think for a minute on why we are arming our enemies in Syria?? How Frank? We are arming the same people we fought in AfPak, Irag, and are blamed for the 9-ll tragedy.
Would the US have invaded Vietmam if the public knew the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag? Would the US be involved in Mena at all if the american public had read about the USS Liberty massacre?
What does this have to do with wov? Que Bono?
On a miniscule scale maybe this is how DI/Dc's feel about some books on dice influence?
Quote: thecesspitAssange is a publicity seeking jerk who cares little for 'truth' except where it can further Assange. He's riding on the backs of whistleblowers (like Manning), but doesn't like it when someone blows the whistle on him. Screw him. Screw wikileaks.
Assange lost all credability as a supporter of openess when he forced all his empoyees to sign non disclosure agreements that all media communications be personally approved by him.
