Poll

7 votes (63.63%)
5 votes (45.45%)
4 votes (36.36%)
2 votes (18.18%)
2 votes (18.18%)
3 votes (27.27%)

11 members have voted

scire
scire
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July 13th, 2012 at 1:48:45 PM permalink
Just up or down and-- short reason.

Commodities up or down-- short reason

Gold up or down-- short reason
P90
P90
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July 13th, 2012 at 2:01:44 PM permalink
If I knew, I would be buying or selling - not posting short reasons on a forum.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
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July 13th, 2012 at 3:12:36 PM permalink
Without a time period, the answer is 'all of the above'
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
RaleighCraps
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July 13th, 2012 at 3:18:55 PM permalink
It's just like craps.
You can play the Pass or the Don't Pass, but either way, you can win in the short term, but will likely lose if you play the game too long.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Paradigm
Paradigm
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July 13th, 2012 at 5:21:40 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

It's just like craps.
You can play the Pass or the Don't Pass, but either way, you can win in the short term, but will likely lose if you play the game too long.



This isn't really accurate IMHO....even the S&P500 over long periods of time is a positive EV whereas craps over long periods of time is a negative EV.

Forget about negative EV over the long term it if you pick an manage a basket of individual equities....

Way too much hype in my opinion about how the equity markets are like a casino, there is no comparison.
RaleighCraps
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July 13th, 2012 at 6:42:13 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

This isn't really accurate IMHO....even the S&P500 over long periods of time is a positive EV whereas craps over long periods of time is a negative EV.

Forget about negative EV over the long term it if you pick an manage a basket of individual equities....

Way too much hype in my opinion about how the equity markets are like a casino, there is no comparison.



I certainly agree with your assessment that the major indexes are a positive EV over time, whereas craps will always be negative.

But, unless you are a major player, you are playing the game at a huge disadvantage to the Goldman Sachs' etc. But that would be a whole another thread on a different board.............
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
MrV
MrV
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July 13th, 2012 at 6:43:05 PM permalink
Down.

The economy is still lousy, both nationally and world-wide.

The crisis in Europe is far from resolved.

FWIW, I liquidated most of my stock portfolio; I plan to buy in after it tanks again, which it likely will.
"What, me worry?"
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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July 14th, 2012 at 5:32:46 AM permalink
the stock market becomes negative EV if you churn your portfolio enough; you give up all your progress by paying commissions
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Paradigm
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July 14th, 2012 at 1:34:22 PM permalink
In the world of sub $10 commissions at Schwab, E*Trade, Fidelity, etc. if you are going negative EV based on commissions, you may not have a big enough bankroll to be investing in the first place.
MakingBook
MakingBook
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July 14th, 2012 at 1:51:04 PM permalink
It's easy to become a millionaire in the stock market.
Regular investment in well diversified equities over time will grow to one million dollars.

It's easy to become a millionaire in a casino.
Start with two million, and play craps- two million will become one million in short order.

Comparing the stock market to a casino is nuts.
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
98Clubs
98Clubs
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July 14th, 2012 at 5:27:42 PM permalink
All three are just treading water, The mkt. is OP. China is slacking, so commodities/AU looking dim, as consumption weakens.
Therefore the shorts are leading into the rally, propping up mkt. pricing on all three fronts, equities, AU, Basic Metals.
Europe just kicking the can down the road, that WILL cause financial damage.
Reports of the fiscal cliff are under stated.
Over here, we got Obamacare, and expirations on investment incentives. Not good for taxpayers... double whammy and a buzzcut type haircut coming.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
P90
P90
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July 14th, 2012 at 5:43:51 PM permalink
Quote: MakingBook

Comparing the stock market to a casino is nuts.


Day trading is just like casino gambling. Advantage play is possible, but it's akin to BJ counting without knowing how many decks there are and when they are shuffled. Other than that, it's just random chance.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
scire
scire
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July 14th, 2012 at 9:58:10 PM permalink
It is not random chance. All the traders on the NYSE and other x's would not be so well compensated for counting "Black Jack" with someone elses $$. Right now is a dangerous time to be "all in". I sensed a long 'risk off' period and the 205 point spike Friday puzzled me. I'm looking for an-- extended "Risk on" period along with a lower Volitility Index like the 1st 3 months of this year. A day traders dream. You can, during the right time and it is often extended for quite a while, make $$ on "day spreads" on good stocks. It can be like a LONG LONG LONG hot shoot @ craps. Placing a stock and taking it down after a "hit" then Place another order for another stock etc --always keeping an eye on the news and more...if such a period is restarting, like up until the election, it will be pure "Gold" That said ....2013 ?????? now that's a "crap shoot" to 'see' at this point in time.

...and yes {intuition/market wisdom} - works as a part of trading-- when the trend of a rally is truly running. Was the 205 spike a start..??????
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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July 15th, 2012 at 12:46:40 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

the stock market becomes negative EV if you churn your portfolio enough; you give up all your progress by paying commissions



As another poster has mentioned, commissions are very low now. But 'us regular folk' also pay a hidden fee by always paying the higher price in a spread and being paid the lower price in a spread. If you click on "buy" for IBM, you may pay $195.00, but if you click on sell, you may get $194.90. The difference depends upon how actively traded the stock is, and how big your trade is, and luck, too.
P90
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July 15th, 2012 at 1:42:21 AM permalink
Quote: scire

It is not random chance. All the traders on the NYSE and other x's would not be so well compensated for counting "Black Jack" with someone elses $$.


Serious traders work, at least, short term (weeks) - day trading is just glorified gambling. With some patterns in the chaos that can be spotted, but that's all there is to it.
You only help reinforce my point by describing obvious gambling behaviors.

Although gambling with someone else's money is always +EV: you get paid a share of your winnings, but don't have to chime in for your losses. If I ever find two good chumps who want me to day trade with their money, I'm going to take it up and start opposite betting.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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July 15th, 2012 at 3:28:36 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

As another poster has mentioned, commissions are very low now. But 'us regular folk' also pay a hidden fee by always paying the higher price in a spread and being paid the lower price in a spread. If you click on "buy" for IBM, you may pay $195.00, but if you click on sell, you may get $194.90. The difference depends upon how actively traded the stock is, and how big your trade is, and luck, too.



It used to be worse, when you didnt get immediate confirmation of the trade and didn't set a price limit. Not so long ago I had it happen to me, that a stock was trading at, say, $100 and you wanted that price and sold it. Later to find out that you only got $92 for it [say]. So you go back to the history of that stock and find out, on that day, for a brief period of time it was trading at that price. You could be sure, in fact, you would get the lowest price of the day when selling, and vice versa, in those days.

They trained me. Out of habit, I always now set a limit when buying or selling even today.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Gabes22
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July 15th, 2012 at 6:35:49 AM permalink
I think it's a short term spike. There were 6 straight down days leading up to Friday, and because of that investors saw some short term buying opportunities.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
scire
scire
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July 15th, 2012 at 12:29:31 PM permalink
P90---Yes there are "gaming similarities"-your point OK-- but not "random chance". One can research a stock and make a determination as to whether or not it is suitable for "day trading" if one has been taught what to look for. This is why I mentioned "wisdom" of the market. This wisdom is based on knowledge acquired-- based on many variables. Random chance is like flipping a coin - there is no chance of a "wise" decision as to how the coin will land on any given roll but one can "handicap" a stock just as one can the "ponies" and so it is not random chance---but there is a % of likelihood one can lose on a daytrade on any particular stock.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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July 15th, 2012 at 11:51:12 PM permalink
All I know is I put a decent sum of money in the market on Feb. 27th, mostly in some casino stocks (LVS, WYNN, MGM) after seeing the ridiculous revenue growth in Macau (I put less in MGM since they have a much smaller ratio of their business in Macau). Also bought some SPY to balance it out. I re-bought several times as the prices kept dropping, hoping to dollar-cost-average myself to bigger gains.

I'm down 15% and if I had just stuck to the SPY, I'd be about even (technically 0.26% in the green).

I shouldn't try to "play" the stock market, I should just buy and hold SPY, I'm not sure what I was thinking. I was thinking "oh I'm a smart guy, I'm in tune with the casino industry, having a casino in Macau is like printing money! I gotta get on this train before it leaves the next stop!"

At this point, with the world economy not looking so hot, I'm thinking of cutting my losses. But I don't need the money right now, so I might hold on to it and hope to recover. MGM and LVS are just killing me (WYNN not as bad). I should stick to counting cards, at least I know I'll make money at that in the long term.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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July 16th, 2012 at 12:53:19 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

I'm down 15% and if I had just stuck to the SPY, I'd be about even



The elusiveness of full economic recovery means you are not alone. Nonetheless, the best bet is that this was and is not a bad time to be buying stocks. Don't expect it to look like it unless we get full recovery.

As someone recently wisely said, the longer we have to wait for a recovery that never comes, the more likely we are to just stumble on to another recession by natural course. Not so sure that isn't what is going on. Need that crystal ball to know whether we are going deeper or now coming out of it! The general stance of the market seems to say, we don't know.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Doc
Doc
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:54:40 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

... I put a decent sum of money in the market on Feb. 27th ... I'm down 15% ....


As a retiree, I keep most of my funds in cash accounts. I have only a modest amount of stocks, with a current value equivalent to about six months of my regular net income (pension and social security.) I essentially never buy or sell, just hold and watch. I rode the up and way-way-down of the dot com boom and bust and the up and down of the housing boom and bust. I am down by half since a peak in 1999, up almost 90% since a nadir in 2002, very slightly down since a pre-housing-crash peak in 2007, and up about 15% since the end of last February when AcesAndEights made his buy. If I had reinvested dividends over the years, I would be up since that latest peak in 2007. Even without reinvesting dividends, I am up from where I was in 1997 before the dot com boom.

I may look at my portfolio value every few days, just from curiosity, but I only record end-of-month values, dividends, and the few sales that occurred due to corporate changes. If I tried to buy and sell daily, weekly, monthly, or whatever based on my own guesses, the guesses of "advisors", or the semi-random noise I see in the market, I would probably go nuts. By owning only a modest amount of uninsured investments and just holding, I don't get panicky even in a big slide like 2000-2002, and I certainly don't go bonkers when the Dow jumps or drops a few hundred points.
TheBigPaybak
TheBigPaybak
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July 16th, 2012 at 11:10:26 AM permalink
What i struggle with is that the country can't keep adding a trillion dollars to the federal deficit, year after year, without harsh consequences to "right the ship". There won't be any good solutions and people aren't going to like them- but there will come a time when we will not be able to "kick the can" down the road any further. Exactly when this time it, I don't know- but things better become more manageable soon or I fear another big downturn. Combined with the possible changing tax code, it does make me want to try and time the market and get out, although I haven't done so yet. As I understand it(someone correct me if I'm wrong) both dividend and capital gains taxes will be up next year under Obama. Under Romney, possibly not, although I'm not sure on that, but hopeful.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
scire
scire
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July 16th, 2012 at 11:46:32 AM permalink
TBP I agree. That is why I prefer day trading during this "period" of time. One could just sit in the market years ago but real hard for me to do that now. I'm up 6k in the last 8 months making small gains aprox $200.00 -$300.00 a trade. I have not traded at all in the last few months. Getting antsy!! and nervous as well.
TheBigPaybak
TheBigPaybak
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July 16th, 2012 at 11:57:30 AM permalink
Quote: scire

TBP I agree. That is why I prefer day trading during this "period" of time. One could just sit in the market years ago but real hard for me to do that now. I'm up 6k in the last 8 months making small gains aprox $200.00 -$300.00 a trade. I have not traded at all in the last few months. Getting antsy!! and nervous as well.



I hate it- because even with my "long-term" portfolio, the prospect of losing 20-40% (or worse) at least on paper, makes me sick to even think about- hence my inclination to *want* to trade out, although it's almost impossible to catch the top and who knows where we'll be when the correction occurs? There's also the (optimistic!) scenario that things will work out over the next few years, and we can all breathe a sigh of relief. To not be invested at that point will really put you behind the 8-ball...

...decisions, decisions. I suppose one of my main decision points will be the election: I firmly believe without a change in leadership this economy will at best sputter along and at worse, succumb to a double-dip. Job growth is slowing and just not at the necessary levels to bring in the revenue to help right the ship. Increasing taxes at this time is suicide. Obamacare will cost more than projected and the business uncertainty will continue. But who can predict?
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
Paradigm
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July 16th, 2012 at 1:27:47 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

At this point, with the world economy not looking so hot, I'm thinking of cutting my losses. But I don't need the money right now, so I might hold on to it and hope to recover. MGM and LVS are just killing me (WYNN not as bad). I should stick to counting cards, at least I know I'll make money at that in the long term.



MGM is a dog. It is projected to lose money this year and next with the losses that keep being revised in the wrong direction (i.e. going up, not down). Sell that one now at $9+. Mgmt stubbed their toe big time with City Center, which caused their credibility to go right down the tubes.....along with their balance sheet. Saying you are in a better position than CZR isn't saying much and that is really all they can say right now.

LVS & WYNN are both good companies. I prefer LVS below $40 since it has more diversification beyond just Macau (i.e. Singapore mainly, but also convention space in LV & Sands in PA give it a better presence for US turnaround when it happens). Plus they just got the deferral on their additional Cotai project, which shows they are smart enought not to move forward in a bad market. I really am not gonna like it if they commit to that European Vegas project in Spain, but it appears they are likely to pull back on that as well.

If you are gonna stay in the space and long term I think it is a good place to be, I would concentrate position in LVS. If it holds $36 it is a screaming buy and I may have to re-enter it at that point.
98Clubs
98Clubs
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July 16th, 2012 at 1:59:05 PM permalink
Solid financials in the 10-K. DO THE HOMEWORK.

Heres a list of stocks by abbreviation: some you know others you might not.
AAPL AMX CAT CNI COH GWR IBM MCD NLY SCCO T THI

There are no gaming stocks here, and only APPL & IBM are Tech stocks.
I have cyclicly invested in these since 2004, three have never been sold, one was sold in early 2008, and recently bought again.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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August 13th, 2012 at 1:43:39 PM permalink
The Dow for 5 days per Yahoo.

you wouldnt want to fall into any of those crevices, I'm thinking.

PS: on July 13, when this thread started, Dow was @ 12777

the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
EvenBob
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August 21st, 2015 at 12:50:56 PM permalink
The market is down 7% for the week, the Dow
is down 530 today. Oil dropped below $40
at one point today. Is the sky falling?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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August 21st, 2015 at 2:42:28 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

The market is down 7% for the week, the Dow
is down 530 today. Oil dropped below $40
at one point today. Is the sky falling?


I looked, sky is not falling.
Great day to have a good % of your money in 'cash accts'.
But then there are are those other accts........
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
MB
MB
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August 21st, 2015 at 2:59:56 PM permalink
Markets are random. I'd rather be playing craps.
MrV
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August 21st, 2015 at 4:56:35 PM permalink
Hello, overdue correction.

Now let's see if the bubble affecting collectible Ferrari prices collapses.
"What, me worry?"
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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August 21st, 2015 at 5:51:24 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Hello, overdue correction.

Now let's see if the bubble affecting collectible Ferrari prices collapses.



I'm betting we see 20-30% on this correction, depending on what the fed decides to do/not do in Sept. Either way, once the free fall ends, we flat line for a few months.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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August 21st, 2015 at 6:17:21 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I'm betting we see 20-30% on this correction, depending on what the fed decides to do/not do in Sept. Either way, once the free fall ends, we flat line for a few months.



we're pretty much at a 10% correction now and I have been buying

20% - it's possible, but if so, TINA* is dead. So what alternative is looking good now?

Well, maybe the sheer momentum ... and the fear of catching the falling knife... will take us there. Can't be ruled out.

30% will mean I missed the bottom, I won't have any purchasing power left. In any case a flat line for a few months will be OK as long as it's like 2009 with a steady climb back. Longer than that and I will get hurt.

* http://thereformedbroker.com/2013/02/05/t-i-n-a-or-the-sellers-dilemma/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
teddys
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August 21st, 2015 at 6:51:05 PM permalink
I'm really sick of stocks. Of course I would not be saying that if I had picked winners. But I picked a bunch of individual stocks which are down a lot. So it goes . . .

I'm more into illiquid investments right now. Making a couple real estate plays. But maybe I'll buy more stocks if prices go down a lot. Or at least rebalance.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
MrV
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August 21st, 2015 at 7:08:12 PM permalink
I helped fund the purchase of my 456 GT with profits from the sale of MGM and LVS stock.

As with most things, timing is everything.
"What, me worry?"
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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August 21st, 2015 at 8:53:07 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I helped fund the purchase of my 456 GT with profits from the sale of MGM and LVS stock.

As with most things, timing is everything.



"Your 456 GT"...,...,,
I'll race you in my Camry.
In reverse only, you can pick the road.
I could tell you a story about racing backwards.
But it might scare you away,
And you probably wouldn't believe it anyway ;-)

Edit,
Sparkles said no, no more racing backwards.
I have to retract my dare.
I did call R------ and have a laugh.
He was a passenger, just once, when this happened.
He's never been the same....
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
MrV
MrV
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August 21st, 2015 at 11:28:02 PM permalink
The best way to make good money in a casino is to own it.

Or a chunk of it.

Ah, gambling stocks!

Yeah, I made a good profit, and applied it towards the purchase of an entry level exotic.

Such is life.

As my Gambling God Alfred E. Neuman says:"What, me worry?"
"What, me worry?"
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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August 22nd, 2015 at 2:48:07 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

I'm really sick of stocks. Of course I would not be saying that if I had picked winners. But I picked a bunch of individual stocks which are down a lot. So it goes . . .

I'm more into illiquid investments right now. Making a couple real estate plays.


Unsolicited advice time.

Do you get illegal-level inside information from somebody on individual stocks? No, it appears. Then quit buying them. It's the age of ETFs. Don't know which ones to buy? Google it, like "S&P 500 etf" ... pops right up. Just make sure the fund has hundreds of millions of dollars in it at least and isn't weird like an etf for bbq'd pickle companies. Still don't know what to do? Call Vanguard or T Rowe Price and have them walk you through setting yourself up with a brokerage account you can access online. Or just set it up online. If working, pile into any 401k type stuff for sure especially if the company matches some of it.

If you have a decent horizon [more than 5 years] and use dollar cost averaging + diversification, you can't really miss. It's practically unheard of to lose money that way over 10 yrs and literally unheard of if over 15, Great Depression or Great Recession included. Those are well-known facts, and I'll add to that the remarkable outcome of a 30 year record and the absolute miracle of a 40 year one [that I hope to see, I was dead broke in 1982]

Quote:

But maybe I'll buy more stocks if prices go down a lot. Or at least rebalance.


You're a gambler and probably want to do market timing. You'll never get the stamp of approval from any financial adviser for that. Rebalancing though is very similar and an adviser will sing your praises for it. So you get your gambling fix and praise for it all at the same time! Rebalance sir! Now is the time! [but spread it out for dollar cost averaging]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
EvenBob
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August 24th, 2015 at 12:06:59 PM permalink
Down over 1000 this morning, headed that way again
at 3pm EST. FOX business is covering it without commercial
breaks. Some are predicting insane mode in the last 15 min.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
rxwine
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August 24th, 2015 at 12:57:12 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Of course I would not be saying that if I had picked winners.



Same thing said in casinos everyday.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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August 24th, 2015 at 3:18:10 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Down over 1000 this morning, headed that way again
at 3pm EST. FOX business is covering it without commercial
breaks. Some are predicting insane mode in the last 15 min.

This is more evidence that we are not experiencing capitalism.

The DOW does not lose 7% of it's value in ten minutes. The banks [hedge funds] that were bailed out against the will of the people in '08 now are the largest manipulators of equity prices in the world.

Capitalism would allow bad banks to fail and good ones to be resurrected in their place. They are now just weapons of economic destruction for the PTB waging war by other means.

The people be damned. A lot of retirement funds got spanked hard today. Those were real dollars, earned, and then evaporated by the moneyed interests.

There is some extinction level events going on in the currency wars that aren't being portrayed openly or honestly . The petro dollar is floundering but so is every other fiat. The central banks are going "all in".
rxwine
rxwine
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August 24th, 2015 at 3:29:43 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Capitalism would allow bad banks to fail and good ones to be resurrected in their place.



I just don't see how it can work well with too few and too big at the same time.

I remember when they split Ma Bell. While I wouldn't necessarily say things are better for the consumer since cost wise, there is at least no dependency on one phone company doing everything, or failing at everything.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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August 24th, 2015 at 4:30:31 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I just don't see how it can work well with too few and too big at the same time.

I remember when they split Ma Bell. While I wouldn't necessarily say things are better for the consumer since cost wise, there is at least no dependency on one phone company doing everything, or failing at everything.

This is a one minute window today.
These are the blue chippest of blue chips stocks. This is where old people or those that just want "return of their capitol "go, who aren't concerned so much with return "on their capitol"

Almost everyone has stops on their accounts, and it plummeted so fast that it ran the stops. When the retirement account computers caught up with the drop, they sold, at a huge loss and didn't get to buy in again on the way back up without paying a vig on every purchase.

This is what Clinton signing away Glass Stegal and deregulating the markets along with HFT trading algorhythyms have done, with the blessing of the SEC. The TBTF's are raping the retirement accounts now of what is left, while John Corzine walks around free.

They won't get elected but Sanders, Paul, Warren or Ron Paul are the only ones talking about this stuff before it is mainstreet pain.
Ahigh
Ahigh
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August 24th, 2015 at 5:12:00 PM permalink
Crazy. Great post, petro.
aahigh.com
teddys
teddys
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August 24th, 2015 at 6:37:30 PM permalink
Beats around the bush, but true. The stock market simply isn't the place for individual investors anymore. Certainly not individual stocks. Your best hope is just to put it into the broadest-based low cost mutual fund or ETF. And hope you don't get screwed by the big players -- the hedge funds, banks, and pension funds. They are the ones that move the needle; not Jane and Joe Bloggs that used to in the 20's through the 90's.

They will always know more than you. You just don't have the time, expertise, or resources that these guys have.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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August 25th, 2015 at 4:29:48 AM permalink
Although the original post was 2+years ago, reference today: up 300+. For the week; down 500 from close last Friday. Or so my crystal ball says. :)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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August 25th, 2015 at 6:01:47 AM permalink
Most ordinary people do not have stops on their accounts, particularly retirement accounts. Retirement accounts typically hold mutual funds that don't even trade interday, that is particularly the case for 401(k) plans. If you have gotten your IRA into the ETF's and put stop losses in place on Iong term retirement accounts funds, than what is the saying "a fool and his money.....".......nobody seems to jump up and down about some conspiracy of big money/big banks and how there is no way the individual investor has a chance in the equity markets when the market is at all time highs......but I know, it's been decades,.....errrrr years.....errrr months since we have seen a high on the S&P 500!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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August 25th, 2015 at 6:29:00 AM permalink
it's a thrilling ride we are having. Don't get off at the wrong spot.

the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
MrV
MrV
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August 25th, 2015 at 6:56:14 AM permalink
What a difference a day makes.
"What, me worry?"
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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August 25th, 2015 at 7:17:25 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

What a difference a day makes.



It never goes straight down. This market is on the Blue Sky Meth of free money. Dumped my equity funds yesterday. Getting to look too much like early 2008.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
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