Has anyone ever asked to look at all the cards in the Deck before playing Blackjack?
An older Gentleman told me last year that he was at the Hard Rock Casino in Fort Lauderdale, FL and saw a dealer removing some 10's and Facecards from the deck and replacing them with 2's early in the morning around 5am. He approached the dealer...asked what was going on and was quickly removed by security and arrested for "Disturbing the Peace". He was later banned from ever returning back there.
A few weeks later; I had my fiasco of losing 20+ consecutive hands (4 separate times) in a week and also receiving an Ace in 11 consecutive hands when Doubling Down on 11 at 2 different Seminole Casinos (Hard Rock & Seminole Fort Lauderdale Casino) in Fort Lauderdale, FL
I decided to test out a hypothesis to figure out if all the 10's were truly in the deck the next time I visited the Hard Rock Casino:
The next time I visited the Casino, Playing $10 Blackjack on a brand new shoe; I asked how many Decks of cards were being used: I was told they used 8 Decks.
So I cut the shoe...about 1 Deck deep. So theoretically, I am playing with about 7 Decks of Cards.
How many cards are worth 10 points in a single Deck of Cards? 4 10's, 4 Jacks, 4 Queens, 4 Kings = 16 Total Cards valued at 10 points
How many cards are worth 10 points in 7 Decks of Cards? 16 Total Cards * 7 Decks = 112 Total Cards valued at 10 points
How many cards are worth 10 points in 8 Decks of Cards? 16 Total Cards * 8 Decks = 128 Total Cards valued at 10 points
I counted 96 total cards worth 10 points before the Shoe ended (7 Decks).
So, you are telling me there are 32 cards (128 - 96) worth 10 points in the remaining uncut Deck (52 Cards)???
I left immediately and advised everybody that I know to NEVER play Blackjack at any Seminole Casino.
2/3rd of 128 = 85.333
Quote: only1choiceI couldn't find the answer to this question, will my astute comrades please break down the percentages for me. Last nite was difficult but was able to come back after about 5 hours. Throughout the night everytime I doubled on 11 I pulled an ace, 7 times in a row unbelievable!. Howevever I was winning a high percentage of the regular hands which included doubling on ten versus ten 7 of ten times. This is the first time I ever doubled on that combination. Please give me analysis of this play.
As always thanks in advance.
My response to only1choice's quote on April 29, 2012:
Quote: CrapsForeverFinally!!! This is an Anomaly!
Sorry about your loss but I share with your pain. Last year...I went through a streak in 2 days of pulling an ACE after Doubling on 11 (11 times in a row) Nobody that I told believed me. They said I was having "selective memory". I am happy someone can have a similar story to tell.
I also lost 20 hands in a row; 4 separate times in ONE week last year. This included changing shoes, different dealers, different casinos. What's the probablity of that?
Quote: andysifi don't know about the other situations, but your claim of "receiving an Ace in 11 consecutive hands when Doubling Down" seems to imply that the shoe is rich in aces, and thats good for you.
Per my signature "It's not whether you make a good or bad bet; it's whether or not you win.", I do not care about a Deck being rich in Aces, 10's, etc "being good for me".....the only thing that matters to me at the end of EACH gambling session is whether I won or lost $$$.
I did have a session of about 2 dozen hands a few months back where I only won 2 hands at coconut creek, but figured I have played enough sessions that this was statistically insignificant.
But regarding the original question:
I don't know if you can ask at any random time, but if you are at the table when they change the cards (about every 8 hours), or when the table first opens, all the decks are spread for examination by players and the dealer.Quote: CrapsForeverHas anyone ever asked to look at all the cards in the Deck before playing Blackjack to ensure all the right cards were in the Deck?
Quote: CrapsForeverreceiving an Ace in 11 consecutive hands when Doubling Down on 11
Unless the dealer's had you singled out, and were all told to 'get' you, and were all skilled enough to hold that ace in abeyance until you doubled on 11, and warned the next casino that you were coming, since the bad luck streak followed you from one casino to another, the likelihood of drawing an ace to your 11 consecutive double downs on 11 was about 1 in 180 TRILLION.
As far as your initial question, it certainly is 'possible' for a casino to enrich an 8 deck shoe to benefit the casino. However, that would require at least one lowly paid employee, either a dealer or a pit boss, probably both, to take orders from a higher up to do so. If this were a common practice there, I can't imagine that there is not at least one disgruntled ex-employee who would spill the beans.
Quote: dlevinelawI still haven't played enough to form a definite opinion, though I will say I have won more than I have lost at the Seminole casinos.
I did have a session of about 2 dozen hands a few months back where I only won 2 hands at coconut creek, but figured I have played enough sessions that this was statistically insignificant.
The strange thing about Seminole Casinos is I have met a lot (25+ people) who have complained about ridiculous losing streaks solely on their properties. I met a guy last summer who lost 34 hands in a row playing at the Hard Rock. I have had multiple shoes where I have lost every single hand. Granted, I have always had bad luck in Blackjack but it just seems a bit extreme. I also had 2 friends visit from out of town who are very good at Blackjack and they both complained that the cards especially on Double Down situations seemed to be completely out of whack.
Obviously, I can't prove anything...but I will STRONGLY advise against anybody playing Blackjack at Seminole properties. I just have this feeling based on my experiences and what several people have told me that their game may not be 100% fair.
Quote: SOOPOOHowever, that would require at least one lowly paid employee, either a dealer or a pit boss, probably both, to take orders from a higher up to do so. If this were a common practice there, I can't imagine that there is not at least one disgruntled ex-employee who would spill the beans.
If find it amusing how the two arguments going to apriori discredit any allegation of casino cheating are (1) they don't need it, because they are making enough without it, and (2) they can't do it, because someone would tell.
Does not it apply to any cheating anywhere, corporate or individual? I mean, if these arguments really held water, nobody would ever cheat, would they?
Quote: weaselmanIf find it amusing how the two arguments going to apriori discredit any allegation of casino cheating are (1) they don't need it, because they are making enough without it, and (2) they can't do it, because someone would tell.
Does not it apply to any cheating anywhere, corporate or individual? I mean, if these arguments really held water, nobody would ever cheat, would they?
You don't tell people making $10-$15 an hour to purposely do something that if people found out, would cost your company tens of millions of dollars. Cheating is possible, but not at the dealer level.
Quote: weaselmanIf find it amusing how the two arguments going to apriori discredit any allegation of casino cheating are (1) they don't need it, because they are making enough without it, and (2) they can't do it, because someone would tell.
Does not it apply to any cheating anywhere, corporate or individual? I mean, if these arguments really held water, nobody would ever cheat, would they?
I'm glad I can amuse you! See Finsrule's answer in the previous post. Individual cheating, without the use of an accomplice, is the exact opposite of what I stated. It does not have the risk of the accomplice 'turning' on you. No one has ever explained to me the motive for the $15 per hour dealer to commit a felony when he will not be reaping the rewards of that felony. Or a $20 an hour pit boss.
Of course one can never underestimate the power of greed. Just the greedy will be greedy for themselves, not the corporation they work for.
Quote: FinsRuleYou don't tell people making $10-$15 an hour to purposely do something that if people found out, would cost your company tens of millions of dollars.
I think, that view is a bit naive. People, who cheat always hope that the people will not find out. If they did not, there would not be any cheating.
Here are a few cases that a quick google search found:
instructing employees ...to lie about how long they worked on unclassified NSA contracts
instructing employees to inflate revenues
instructing employees to falsely report what contracts they were working on
instructing employees...to make his bonus checks payable not to him but instead to third parties.
Instructing employees to fabricate responses to statutory due diligence requirements
instructing employees to adopt make-believe titles
Etc.
Quote: SOOPOONo one has ever explained to me the motive for the $15 per hour dealer to commit a felony when he will not be reaping the rewards of that felony. Or a $20 an hour pit boss.
The motive is keeping your job. Minimum wage people's motivation is often very different from that of anesthesiologists :)
These properties do seem to have a disproportionate amount of complaints from people claiming that the decks are somehow short, which I honestly doubt is the case. Sore losers always want to blame someone else for the fact that they were gambling. But bigger casinos than these that are not located tribal territory have been caught cheating before, so the "casinos don't need to cheat" defense is not entirely bulletproof, especially on Native land.
What I can tell you about the Seminole casinos is that they use pre-shuffled, boxed cards from Gemaco. These are sealed and fanned for inspection face down only when changing cards. My sample size is extremely small (probably a dozen shoes at best), but in the times that I've been in one of these casinos, I've seen an unusual percentage of shoes go positive—way positive (frequent double digit TCs toward the shuffle). In the handful of shoes that I've counted in Seminole properties, I've had max bets out on most of them (odd enough in itself) in the last three decks, with the high TC not once coming to fruition (i.e., coming back down rapidly) before the shuffle. This is of course entirely insignificant, statistically speaking, but it's certainly unusual. Again, my sample size is very small, so no one should infer anything whatsoever from my observations. I'm certainly not making an accusation of cheating, but maybe they should consider fanning those cards face up once in a while, as they do on all of the other games.
Card counters don't keep track of every individual card, much less by suit. But if they were to remove a few high cards, rather than add some low cards, then this wouldn't happen anyway (and would still create high positive counts). The result would be similar to what I've observed—lots of counts going really high and staying there until the shuffle. Like I said, it's extremely doubtful that anything other than screwing people out of money the old fashioned way is happening at these places, but it's a bit odd regardless.Quote: JBIt should be fairly easy to determine if they are cheating, especially for a card counter. For example, if you see a ninth 2 of clubs come out of an 8-deck shoe, then there is obviously something fishy going on.
All kidding aside, if I don't see a casino spread the decks face up when opening a new table or doing a deck change, I won't play there. I trust the casinos I play at, but I don't trust them all.
And generally, when you're asking someone to do something illegal, you're asking someone who has a lot to lose by not doing it. A 6 figure income, ever getting another job in the industry. And this is someone you're typically not going to fire.
No casino is telling a minimum wage plus tips worker to do something so illegal that it would cost the company tens of millions of dollars. Especially now with all of the social media. The risk is so so so much greater than the reward.
Now, when you start moving higher up the chain of command, the chances of someone doing illegal things in casino operations becomes more and more likely. And like JB said, as soon as someone sees that 9th 2 of clubs, you're done for.
The only credence I will give to any of this, is that I don't trust casinos on Indian land. They make it known that you're pretty much not in America when you go, and anything goes. So, there you go conspiracy therorists.
Quote: FinsRuleThere is a huge difference between accounting "ethics" and physically taking a card out of a deck and switching it with another card.
Lying on a financial document is not "ethics". It's a felony.
Quote:And generally, when you're asking someone to do something illegal, you're asking someone who has a lot to lose by not doing it. A 6 figure income, ever getting another job in the industry. And this is someone you're typically not going to fire.
Where is this information from? Don't say personal experience :)
Quote:No casino is telling a minimum wage plus tips worker to do something so illegal that it would cost the company tens of millions of dollars.
Why not? Any fraud has high risk (financial and otherwise) potential. It has not been much of a deterrent in other industries though (see links above). Why should a casino be different? Do you think casino executives are particularly more risk avert then, say, bankers or security brokers?
Quote:And like JB said, as soon as someone sees that 9th 2 of clubs, you're done for.
I am not saying that I necessarily buy the OP's claim on its face. What I am saying is that the usual arguments against casino cheating sound rather naive to me. It is one thing to say that there is not enough evidence to conclude that there is cheating going on, and quite another to claim that there is no way it can be true, because they are making enough money without it, or because they would be scared that somebody might blow the whistle.
Both things (money making and whistle blowing) have happened in the past, yet cheating corporations are a plenty (and to be sure, any kind of corporate fraud scheme of any decent size has to involve tens if not hundreds of people of various pay grades, ranging from the very top to the very bottom).
Quote: LonesomeGamblerCard counters don't keep track of every individual card, much less by suit.
I'm aware of that. My point was that if someone is suspicious of high cards having been replaced with low cards, it should be easy to confirm or disprove - and despite not normally tracking individual cards by rank and suit, I still say the task would be easier for a card counter than it would be for a ploppie.
Quote: JBMy point was that if someone is suspicious of high cards having been replaced with low cards, it should be easy to confirm or disprove
Well, if the penetration is 2/3, the chance of all nine instances of a particular card showing before the cut card is about one in 38. So, even sitting there for a hundred of shoes, and not seeing nine deuces of spades in any of them does not really disprove much.
Also, tracking 24 different cards (2-6 of four suits) individually is not something I would call "easy", even for a very experienced professional counter.
What would be easy is for the casino to spread the cards face up at the begging of the shoe, or, at least when they change the decks. I am willing to give them a benefit of a doubt, but can't really think of a single reason not to do it unless they are trying to hide something.
Quote: weaselman
What would be easy is for the casino to spread the cards face up at the begging of the shoe, or, at least when they change the decks. I am willing to give them a benefit of a doubt, but can't really think of a single reason not to do it unless they are trying to hide something.
I can agree with that. Your other post, not so much.
If the casino is not doing that, ask them why not.
Quote: weaselmanWhat would be easy is for the casino to spread the cards face up at the begging of the shoe, or, at least when they change the decks. I am willing to give them a benefit of a doubt, but can't really think of a single reason not to do it unless they are trying to hide something.
No argument there.
Quote: DJTeddyBearCasinos already do, or at least should, spread the decks face up when there is a card change, and when the table opens.
If the casino is not doing that, ask them why not.
It was mentioned above that this particular casino spreads the cards face down ...
I am sure, one could try asking "why" ... but what kind of answer would you expect?
My guess: "It's just the policy of the house, sir".
Quote: weaselmanQuote: DJTeddyBearCasinos already do, or at least should, spread the decks face up when there is a card change, and when the table opens.
If the casino is not doing that, ask them why not.
It was mentioned above that this particular casino spreads the cards face down ...
I am sure, one could try asking "why" ... but what kind of answer would you expect?
My guess: "It's just the policy of the house, sir".
If you don't trust it, there's really nothing you can do other than not playing there. And I wouldn't fault you for doing that.
Now those virtual games they do have (shufflemaster), I really don't trust.
Quote: CrapsForever
Per my signature "It's not whether you make a good or bad bet; it's whether or not you win.", I do not care about a Deck being rich in Aces, 10's, etc "being good for me".....the only thing that matters to me at the end of EACH gambling session is whether I won or lost $$$.
No offense, but your post title should then be "pulling an ACE after Doubling on 11 (11 times in a row)", rather than "Has anyone ever asked to look at all the cards in the Deck before playing Blackjack?"
My second reaction was to reflect on the number of disgruntled dealers, particularly those who have been fired but never went to the press or to the lobbyists for very powerful interests trying to get or block major non-Indian gaming in Miami.
IF the decks are preshuffled and shrink wrapped, I would be surprised. I assume they decks are spread at some point during the start of a shift and I'd just go there and if they spread face down I'd pipe up right then. Remember, most casinos spread the decks face up and face down, require the dealer to observe the deck for moving pips when face down, and require the dealer to briefly remove his hand from blocking the cameras. Spreading one or two decks might be for the benefit of the spectators but its really done for the cameras and merely being witnessed by the spectators.
And remember, it is the CASINO that wants to see an honest shoe!! A dishonest shoe is more likely to hurt the casino either in collusion or in publicity. However, some middle manager focused on the short term might try to rig shoes. It is always possible but always unlikely.
As a last resort... I'd ask the dealer... Deal Out The Rest of the Shoe for the benefit of the camera. He will call the Floor but you should be able to get it done.
Quote: FleaStiffMy first reaction to the post was: don't go by anecdotes you hear from others, particularly something that sounds like a Spanish Deck.
My second reaction was to reflect on the number of disgruntled dealers, particularly those who have been fired but never went to the press or to the lobbyists for very powerful interests trying to get or block major non-Indian gaming in Miami.
IF the decks are preshuffled and shrink wrapped, I would be surprised. I assume they decks are spread at some point during the start of a shift and I'd just go there and if they spread face down I'd pipe up right then. Remember, most casinos spread the decks face up and face down, require the dealer to observe the deck for moving pips when face down, and require the dealer to briefly remove his hand from blocking the cameras. Spreading one or two decks might be for the benefit of the spectators but its really done for the cameras and merely being witnessed by the spectators.
And remember, it is the CASINO that wants to see an honest shoe!! A dishonest shoe is more likely to hurt the casino either in collusion or in publicity.
As a last resort... I'd ask the dealer... Deal Out The Rest of the Shoe for the benefit of the camera. He will call the Floor but you should be able to get it done.
Cards are normally changed at most casinos between the hours of 3am and 6am. I would not necessarily recommend asking for the rest of a shoe to be dealt out, because you are indirectly suggesting that you are a counter if you allege that more small cards have come out than face/ace.
Quote: FleaStiffA dishonest shoe is more likely to hurt the casino either in collusion or in publicity.
Exactly ... Just like a dishonest tax policy, SEC fraud or double accounting is more likely to hurt a company involved.
That's why nobody ever does that.
Quote: CrapsForeverA Gentleman told me he saw a dealer removing some 10's and Facecards from the deck and replacing them with 2's early in the morning around 5am.
A few weeks later; I had my fiasco of losing 20+ consecutive hands (4 separate times) in a week and also receiving an Ace in 11 consecutive hands when Doubling Down on 11 at 2 different Seminole Casinos (Hard Rock & Seminole Fort Lauderdale Casino) in Fort Lauderdale, FL
I decided to test out a hypothesis to figure out if all the 10's were truly in the deck the next time I visited the Hard Rock Casino:
I left immediately and advised everybody that I know to NEVER play Blackjack at any Seminole Casino.
RECAPITULATION:
Since I view this as a thread of fundamental importance I want to present this summary.
The thread really proposes several separate issues under one central theme.
The separate issues are: a specific anecdote from an unidentified older gentleman, two separate BJ experiences of note suffered by the poster, a supposed test of the 10s left in the shoe and a personal boycott extended to all Seminole casinos.
These separate issues have all received various commentary. Some noted the possible preparation of a Spanish Deck, some noted the utter foolhardiness of a casino allowing marginally compensated, front-line employees to know of such a major scam, some focused on the major scam not surfacing in the face of the millions of dollars being spent on lobbyists and journalists in the state of Florida at the time these events took place, some focused on the fact that however unlikely and foolish such cheating might be, and however risky it might be, things like that do from time to time actually take place.
Personally, I am inclined to discount the anonymous anecdote completely. As for the widespread use of pre-shuffled shoes that have been gaffed by dealers right out on the floor I would be extremely dubious. So overall, I would conclude its not happening and this has been the result of misunderstandings of some sort. However, I would prefer a more definitive determination.
Is there anyone who either lives in South East Florida or who might be traveling there soon who would be willing to investigate this issue and provide an unbiased observation of the procedures in the wee hours of the morning at the start of the day shift?
Are shrink wrapped pre-shuffled shoes used or are the shoes prepared out in the open but only spread face down?
I really hope this thread has all been the result of some mis-perceptions that were aided by fatigue and alcohol, but its simply too important not to have this matter resolved in a more formal manner.
Quote: FleaStiff
I really hope this thread has all been the result of some mis-perceptions that were aided by fatigue and alcohol, but its simply too important not to have this matter resolved in a more formal manner.
I NEVER drink Alcohol when I gamble nor gamble when I am tired so this does not apply to me.
Quote: CrapsForeverThe strange thing about Seminole Casinos is I have met a lot (25+ people) who have complained about ridiculous losing streaks solely on their properties. I met a guy last summer who lost 34 hands in a row playing at the Hard Rock. I have had multiple shoes where I have lost every single hand. Granted, I have always had bad luck in Blackjack but it just seems a bit extreme. I also had 2 friends visit from out of town who are very good at Blackjack and they both complained that the cards especially on Double Down situations seemed to be completely out of whack.
Obviously, I can't prove anything...but I will STRONGLY advise against anybody playing Blackjack at Seminole properties. I just have this feeling based on my experiences and what several people have told me that their game may not be 100% fair.
This is not an isolated case by a couple of individuals regarding the Seminole Casinos. This in my opinion is a pattern. Go to the Poker Room at the Hard Rock Seminole and interview every player there about playing Blackjack at the Hard Rock; you'll be amazed at the answers you get....and you'll be hard-pressed to want to ever play Blackjack there again. Very similar answers from players who played $10 a hand to players who played $1,000 a hand...can not be coincidence that most of them refuse to ever play Blackjack there anymore!
Quote: mustangsallyYes.
These type of "mistakes" happen all the time at "that" casino mentioned by the OP.
I used to play there also. No more.
Too many bad stories from too many good people, and from people I trust more than a casino supervisor.
Those CA casinos can get away with anything in the LA area.
Too many people to take the place of the people they rip off.
yep, just saying
In my opinion, I think Casino cheating is more widespread than we'd ever truly know. If there is funny stuff going on at any Casino you play, do NOT play there anymore. I could win $1,000 in a gambling session at a new casino I visit...if I find out the casino cheats customers at a specific game...I will not play that game there anymore.
My principles are not determined by whether I win or lose....
Quote: CrapsForeverMy principles are not determined by whether I win or lose....
Why the hell not???
Your signature states exactly the opposite for some reason btw :)
Quote: weaselmanYour signature states exactly the opposite for some reason btw :)
Not sure if you are joking.
My signature refers to bets regarding "House Edge" and "Basic Strategy". House Edge and Basic Strategy mean NOTHING to me. All that counts at the end of EACH gambling session is whether you won or not based on your bets. Regardless of placing the 6 or 8 or parlaying Hardways/Horns in Craps to Splitting 10's....staying on soft 17 or hitting on a Hard 18 in Blackjack to betting on the "Hot" number in Roulette....to slow playing Pocket Aces in No Limit Texas Hold'em Poker.
At the end of the day...how much did you win in your gambling session? Some measure their gambling success based on House Edge and Basic Strategy; I measure success by $$$ won at the end of EACH gambling session.
I play No Limit Texas Hold'em primarily based on my "instincts" and not based on "Basic Strategy" and do well for the most part. Now if I can ever fully enhance and trust my "instincts" in Craps; that will be the game changer!
Cheating is NEVER an option....not by the Casino nor by the Consumer!
Quote: CrapsForeverIn my opinion, I think Casino cheating is more widespread than we'd ever truly know.
It's interesting: at least with the latest shufflers, you can at least be assured of a fairly dealt game, opposite of what people think when they become suspicious of the machines, as they will flag too many or too few cards or other issues.
Quote: FleaStiffI really hope this thread has all been the result of some mis-perceptions that were aided by fatigue and alcohol, but its simply too important not to have this matter resolved in a more formal manner.
I think someone should go in wearing a shirt that has a pocket on the left breast and keep a phone in there, in video-record mode (an iPhone would be perfect for this because its lens is near the top) and "tape" as many shoes as the phone will allow so that the video could be inspected afterwards for anomalies (such as nine 5's of hearts in an eight-deck shoe). I further think that the burden of proof should fall upon those who claim the casino is cheating, and not those who are skeptical of the claim.
Quote: JBI think someone should go in wearing a shirt that has a pocket on the left breast and keep a phone in there, in video-record mode (an iPhone would be perfect for this because its lens is near the top) and "tape" as many shoes as the phone will allow so that the video could be inspected afterwards for anomalies (such as nine 5's of hearts in an eight-deck shoe). I further think that the burden of proof should fall upon those who claim the casino is cheating, and not those who are skeptical of the claim.
JB, I hope you have the BAIL money for the person who is bold enough to try this on a Seminole property.
not worth it. here is what i do.
i only play at a new table, i watch the decks being spread,
i watch the shuffle for anomalies, i count, i win...
i don't need to play badly enough that i can't follow this procedure.
but i play for $100 min. so i can usually get a new table opened whenever i want.
i am not really clear on what the issue is here.
they reviewed tape and are willing to cover losses.
anything lost after that is on you for staying.
if you wanted to make a case, you have to do it LIVE.
not a week, day, hour or even a HAND later.
case: closed
Quote: WongBousing a recording device in that manner could land you in prison.
not worth it. here is what i do.
i only play at a new table, i watch the decks being spread,
i watch the shuffle for anomalies, i count, i win...
i don't need to play badly enough that i can't follow this procedure.
but i play for $100 min. so i can usually get a new table opened whenever i want.
BINGO!!!
Follow WongBo's advice or simply don't play. It's really that simple!
Quote: CrapsForever
House Edge and Basic Strategy mean NOTHING to me.
Ah. Everything is so clear now.
Quote: CrapsForeverNot sure if you are joking.
My signature refers to bets regarding "House Edge" and "Basic Strategy". House Edge and Basic Strategy mean NOTHING to me. All that counts at the end of EACH gambling session is whether you won or not based on your bets. Regardless of placing the 6 or 8 or parlaying Hardways/Horns in Craps to Splitting 10's....staying on soft 17 or hitting on a Hard 18 in Blackjack to betting on the "Hot" number in Roulette....to slow playing Pocket Aces in No Limit Texas Hold'em Poker.
At the end of the day...how much did you win in your gambling session? Some measure their gambling success based on House Edge and Basic Strategy; I measure success by $$$ won at the end of EACH gambling session.
I play No Limit Texas Hold'em primarily based on my "instincts" and not based on "Basic Strategy" and do well for the most part. Now if I can ever fully enhance and trust my "instincts" in Craps; that will be the game changer!
Cheating is NEVER an option....not by the Casino nor by the Consumer!
Quote: FinsRuleThere is a huge difference between accounting "ethics" and physically taking a card out of a deck and switching it with another card.
And generally, when you're asking someone to do something illegal, you're asking someone who has a lot to lose by not doing it. A 6 figure income, ever getting another job in the industry. And this is someone you're typically not going to fire.
No casino is telling a minimum wage plus tips worker to do something so illegal that it would cost the company tens of millions of dollars. Especially now with all of the social media. The risk is so so so much greater than the reward.
Dealers wouldn't cheat for the sake of their casino bosses at minimum wage. Dealers know what a clean game is, and wouldn't risk the loss of their gaming license or some jail time for a boss that pays them minimum wage. Any rogue dealers (and there are some, but a very few) would work as an agent in collusion with a player. It would be incredibly easy to bust a corrupt gaming operation that answers to a gambling commission or control board.
Quote: FinsRulehigher up the chain of command, the chances of someone doing illegal things in casino operations becomes more and more likely. And like JB said, as soon as someone sees that 9th 2 of clubs, you're done for.
The Corporate Corruption and Shenanigans occurs on the corporate level, if it occurs, and not on the pit level: Insider trading, stock manipulation, creative accountancy, etc. The reason why the games have an official house edge is so that the lights can be paid without needing to gaffe any decks, though granted, the HA is slim on BJ. A bad reputation or "funk" is extremely powerful in this industry, and a rep of being a corrupt operator is the kiss of death.
Quote: FinsRuleThe only credence I will give to any of this, is that I don't trust casinos on Indian land. They make it known that you're pretty much not in America when you go, and anything goes. So, there you go conspiracy therorists.
Each tribe is different, with its own organizational personality. Some are fine, others have an "us versus them" concerning indian versus non-indian population approach. I will say that I don't believe any of them truly have the attitude of: "white man speaks with forked tongue, so we can go so far as to use our forked decks on 'em."
I don't like pre-shuffled decks. We only use prestine decks, and we open and examine the decks with a double or triple check: floorman inspects the deck, then the dealer fans and inspects the deck, and if we're using a single deck shuffler machine, we send the decks through the machine - where it examines the deck for completeness. And the fourth check here is the surveillance film of the deck fanning.
We also change the cards every couple of hours on all poker-based and BJ pitch games, and not at 3AM, unless it is a continuous shuffler table, and we still go through the inspect-and-fan all decks.
We also use dice on some Pai Gow tables, as players trust "the separation from the machine" that having the start-of-deal position be determined by the dice.
Quote: JBI think someone should go in wearing a shirt that has a pocket on the left breast and keep a phone in there, in video-record mode (an iPhone would be perfect for this because its lens is near the top) and "tape" as many shoes as the phone will allow so that the video could be inspected afterwards for anomalies (such as nine 5's of hearts in an eight-deck shoe). I further think that the burden of proof should fall upon those who claim the casino is cheating, and not those who are skeptical of the claim.
Use of any such electronic device would be deemed cheating.
I would be satisfied with just going in and seeing them spread the cards and see if its only face down even after someone speaks up about it.
There was a great deal of skepticism and much of it may be well placed but the issue is simply too serious to be ignored.
Quote: CrapsForeverWEASELman, if you are going to quote me...don't just use one sentence...
Why not? It makes no sense to quote the whole post, because it is already there for everyone to read. Why would I duplicate it?
The whole point of quoting is to emphasize the part of the post you are responding to.
Quote: FleaStiffUse of any such electronic device would be deemed cheating.
I personally don't see how proving or disproving game integrity is cheating, but sadly, I can see clueless casino personnel successfully convincing equally clueless authority figures that doing so is worthy of jail time.
Quote: FleaStiffI would be satisfied with just going in and seeing them spread the cards and see if its only face down even after someone speaks up about it.
If I lived anywhere near there I would offer to do it myself.
Quote: FleaStiffThere was a great deal of skepticism and much of it may be well placed but the issue is simply too serious to be ignored.
Agreed, but I still think the casino should be entitled to innocence until they are proven guilty, if for no other reason than the correlation between a player's opinion of the fairness of a game and whether they won or lost.
I know some of their properties still use the CSMs. Would it even be possible to change card quantities on those?
