Indian Casino now robbing the player

So a friend of mine went home with a few cashout tickets, which is a common practice for them. This person gets jacked and the Perp gets away with some cash and the cashout tickets as well.

They call the casino to inform them of the theft and the casino agreed to void the tickets in question(they knew the exact amounts, machines, times, and player cards) and to "look into it".

The tickets were never cashed by the crook or the player.

After talking to the casino several times the casino then cited "they are not responsible for lost or stolen tickets", and now refuse to pay the player for the tickets in question.

So they got robbed once by the Perp, and then by the casino later.

What to do? Soverign Nation and all.

I'm not a fan of Indian casinos but I'm not sure this thread title is completely fair. The not responsible disclaimer says it all and I doubt that it's limited to just the Indians.

Did the robbery occur on the reservation? Was it reported immediately?

If your friend has some time on his hands and wants to have a little "fun" he can file a claim in tribal court. You never know how it could go-oh wait, we all know how it will go.

Some tribes have a unique way of disposing of these cases. They require the claimants to hire one of their high priced attorneys hoping that it will discourage them from going forward.

Feel free to name the casino. If a big enough of a s**t storm is raised they will probably pay. I would also do as 1BB says and go through whatever grievance process the tribe has. I have heard of such complaints going the players way.

My solution would have been to not go to that casindiano in the first place, but I'm particular.

Quote: Lottoballs

r.

What to do? Soverign Nation and all.

If the casino made a commitment to pay the tickets they should honor it. Its just bad business not to. I am surprised they did anything at all, unless your friend is a good customer or the tickets had a significant value. Maybe one or the other is true.

The tribal casino will have a gaming commission of some type. Don't assume that it's a sham, the tribe has a much greater desire to protect the integrity of gaming operation for long term profitability than allowing the casino to keep a minor amount of money. That said, I'm not sure how they might rule. I'm sure having a police report would help. Also, he would need to have used a players card for his play or there would be no way to know he is the rightful owner.

If it was the casino I work at we would pay him the ticket value as long as: they weren't already cashed and, he had his card inserted during play. No reason not too.

What I've seen happen is that you have casino managers who really don't understand that dealing with customers isn't about black and white right or wrong, it's about customer value and satisfaction.

Mark

Why did your friend not cash out the tickets before leaving?

Quote: desertair

Why did your friend not cash out the tickets before leaving?

My wife does that shit, I try to tell her but she doesn't get it. It's like having money that you can't use and that has an expiration date.

Quote: desertair

Why did your friend not cash out the tickets before leaving?

Sometimes people forget. Maybe not everybody is as perfect as you.

It occurs to me that payout tickets need to be defined as either the same as cash, or the same as a check. If you go to a bank, and get $500 in cash, and are then robbed of the money, the bank is not going to give you the $500 again. It isn't going to matter if you are robbed in the bank's parking lot (tribal land) or somewhere else. On the other hand, if you got a check from the bank for $500, and that gets stolen (or lost), then you can easily talk to the bank, have them put a hold on the check, and get another check for $500, since the bank is able to make sure that the original check doesn't get cashed.

It some ways, payout tickets seem to me like they should operate as checks. After all, if the casino (Indian or otherwise) knows what player card, what amount, what time, etc, etc, of the ticket, then it also seems as though they should have the ability to "cancel" (stop payment) a ticket and issue a new one.

On the other hand, I also think the casinos should simply print on their payout tickets, "This instrument negotiable as cash," or something similar. Then they don't have to keep track of the tickets, don't have to issue stop payments, and if you are robbed of cash (or a payout ticket), then they have no responsibility to the player.

I'm not necessarily advocating one way or the other. Rather, I think it's just important that the casino industry come up with some standard policy regarding the payout tickets. Are they cash or checks?

P.S. I just thought of a somewhat analogous situation. I went to Fry's Electronics and bought some games, with cash, as a gift for a friend. Turns out the friend already had the games, so I went back to return them. After taking back the items, I was issued a "cash redemption ticket". I no longer have that ticket, so I don't know what wording was on it. However, since I had paid in cash, there was no personal information on the ticket, ie, no name, no address, no phone number, nothing. I was instructed to take the ticket to the cashier, where I would hand it in, sign it, and then get back my money. The reason I noticed the lack of personal information on the ticket, besides the fact that I know I didn't give out the information, is what while I was standing in line at the cashier, I was thinking of the fact that if I left, and lost the ticket, I (probably) wouldn't be able to get my money, as there would be no way of tracking it. Certainly, the store would know whether or not that particular ticket had been cashed, but there would be no way to prove that it was MY ticket.

Conversely, had I purchased the games originally with a check, or credit/debit card, then my refund would have been made out in the same manner: either a store check, to the same name and information as my check, and or a credit back to my credit/debit card.

Again, I don't know what was written on the "cash redemption ticket" in the fine print, as I didn't analyze it, but I would not be surprised if there was some indemnification for the company should a person end up losing and/or having the ticket stolen.

Quote: Lottoballs

So a friend of mine went home with a few cashout tickets, which is a common practice for them. This person gets jacked and the Perp gets away with some cash and the cashout tickets as well.

They call the casino to inform them of the theft and the casino agreed to void the tickets in question(they knew the exact amounts, machines, times, and player cards) and to "look into it".

The tickets were never cashed by the crook or the player.

After talking to the casino several times the casino then cited "they are not responsible for lost or stolen tickets", and now refuse to pay the player for the tickets in question.

So they got robbed once by the Perp, and then by the casino later.

What to do? Soverign Nation and all.

By calling the casino, all your friend did, apparently, was save the tribe some money. While I feel for your friend who lost their property (and their sense of personal security, too probably), I think characterizing the casino's policy as "robbing" someone, is pretty extreme.

If your friend's homeowner's insurance replaces their stolen valuables, I would expect that policy to cover the value of the stolen tickets, just like (actually better than, since there is a "receipt") cash. If the stolen property was of sufficient value to overcome the deductible, this might be a recovery option.

I think the "not responsible" policy makes sense for a casino, when most (my assumption) situations would be more of the "I was a little tipsy last week, and lost a ticket for $2.25... Can you please use at least 30 minutes of your crew's time (at $30+/hour) to check the security tapes?"

Quote: Wizard

Sometimes people forget. Maybe not everybody is as perfect as you.

This has me thinking. Re your won/loss record at a casino do they count a TITO as money "won" when issued or when cashed in?

Quote: dm

This has me thinking. Re your won/loss record at a casino do they count a TITO as money "won" when issued or when cashed in?

Neither. It's recorded when you remove your player card. Whether or not you cash out or cash in the ticket makes no difference.

We are trying to escalate the dispute through various casino channels. They commonly leave that casino with tickets knowing that it was safer than leaving with cash. Little did they know this would be the treatment. This is also a rather big player for this casino. These were rather large cashouts that would have brought a lot of attention during a visit to the window, so they choose to print the tickets and scoot unnoticed.

Thanks for all the comments. The name of the casino shall remain nameless unless there is no resolve in the matter.

At the very least with some type of police report and perhaps a statement from the casino I thin they could deduct it from their taxes if the previously mentioned insurance claim idea doesn't work.

If your friend is a good player at the casino like you said, his best bet is to direct the request to someone who values him as a player. That could be a host or perhaps the general manager of the property. Either of these two should recognize that losing a $10,000 player over a few hundred dollar dispute is dumb. I would write a letter to the general manager describing what happened and ask for help in resolving it. If the GM doesn't understand what a bad business decision it is to not satisfy a good player over a minor issue then he's probably out of luck.

Mark

The correct response depends on how far and how hard your friend wants to push it.

He should consider making a claim against his insurance company for the theft: I don't know if there is coverage, but if there is, problem solved.

Also, make a formal, written request "through channels" for the casino to look into and document the matter, and to refund the value of the stolen tickets.

Finally, if that fails, consider hiring an attorney experienced with Indian Law, more particularly the Law of the particular tribal casino in question, and take the matter to tribal court.

As for the wisdom of not cashing out tickets due to fear that people will oversee him: if that is a real issue for him, couldn't he arrange for the tribe to give him a check instead of cash?

I've never asked for this and don't know if they would, or could.

Quote: marksolberg

Neither. It's recorded when you remove your player card. Whether or not you cash out or cash in the ticket makes no difference.

But not in the middle of a video poker hand, certainly. And if you TITO out and don't remove your card?

Quote: dm

But not in the middle of a video poker hand, certainly. And if you TITO out and don't remove your card?

I can't speak for all slot systems, but I know the one we utilize does update when the player card is removed, regardless of whether you are mid-game or not. The system just sends whatever the current meters are.

Mark

I am happy to report that the casino came to their senses and paid($5k~). It took much pressure and threats of going "tribal" with it. I think it was resolved at the GM level.

Quote: Lottoballs

I am happy to report that the casino came to their senses and paid($5k~). It took much pressure and threats of going "tribal" with it. I think it was resolved at the GM level.

Your friend left the property with $5000 in tickets? Ummm...what if he forgot they were in his pants and did the laundry? Talk about unnecessary risk.......

Quote: rdw4potus

Your friend left the property with $5000 in tickets? Ummm...what if he forgot they were in his pants and did the laundry? Talk about unnecessary risk.......

I only wish that someday I can walk out of a casino with a ticket for $5k and not give it a second thought.