Is This Acceptable Behavior from a Dealer?

Was at Sands Casino in Bethlehem, PA today and incurred a very odd dealer who was seemingly trying to provoke a reaction from me.

She was a middle-aged woman of South East Asian descent, with a thick accent and dealing at Three Card Poker.

My friend was playing at the table, which was a $5 table, and I decided to join after doing some damage at a BJ table on the other side to the point I could play a carnival game with no real drain on my bottom line.

I waited to join and was literally standing 10 ft away from the table when Strike 1 against the Dealer occurred...

Strike 1) This lady starts hassling me for looking at my Iphone. I'm not playing at the table, literally standing far enough to have no affect on anyone. And my phone is pointed at the floor. But feels the need to holler in my direction about using the phone? Ok fine, I put the phone away and throw my cash on the table to kill some time.


Start the game with usual back and forth. Mediocre hands and the dealer doesn't qualify, some pushes and some small profits by bumping the Ante bet. As my pile slowly starts accumulating, I figure heck, I'll order a drink! The waitress comes over, a rather attractive young lady , who starts chatting with me as the dealer is placing the cards down. I pick up the cards, glance back at the waitress and say "Oh yea, I'll have a Jack and Coke..." And then...

Striiiiiiiike 2) Dealer goes "Surrr, you cahnt look at cahrds and face avay from tayble..." I say "So you expect me order a drink and not look at her?" She replies "Surr, dees is da rools. I am not vahnting trubble."

So a couple hands pass, and mostly folding with non-qualifying hands. I get my drink, have a sip and place it on the table next to my chips. Cards are dealt and I pick up my cards with both hands, pull them to the padding and look at them with my hands on the felt, keeping them within the confines of the table. The table is full and there isn't much room to put your elbows, but we manage well enough in the cramped space. That is until...

Striiiiiiiiike 3) "Please don't pull cahrds back so fahr"
I go "What? Are you serious??"
She retorts "Eets da rools, cahn't take cahrds off tayble"
I say "I didn't, maybe if you'd stop bothering me over nothing you'd realize it!"

I proceed to look at my cards which started nicely with King , Queen of Diamonds. Only for her distraction to practically ruin the third card being a 10 of diamonds. I play the hand, get paid, start counting my money contemplating whether or not to leave, but decide to press up the bet for the next hand well before the cards are out. At the same time, she's collecting everyone else's $1 chip for the Sucker...er I mean... Progressive Jackpot bet. Low and behold it's ....

Striiiike 4) This "professional" reaches on to my pair plus bet, and flings back the extra $10 I put on it, claiming "Tooo layte!" Sure enough I get a Pair of Kings, but honestly that wasn't the issue. It was this dealer just being a "Cee U Next Tuesday" for seemingly no reason.


And now the straw that broke the Camel's back. I take another sip of my drink, put the half full cup down and proceed to pick up my cards. As I'm looking at the cards...

Striiiiike 5) This dealer actually reaches across the table and puts her hand OVER MY DRINK and MOVES it along with my chip stack that was NOT in play!
I literally looked at her and said "What the hell are you doing!"
She protests " I cahn't see da cards behine da dahrink"
"And what gives you the right to touch my drink?"
She then says "I must follow de rules, you tahk to supervise if you have problem!"
"How about I talk to the health department and the gaming commission about a dealer holding an alcoholic drink?"

I take the drink throw it in the garbage and the lovely waitress from before returns soon after and I order another. Around the same time, the dealer goes on break and a young dealer named Anthony came in much to the relief of everyone.

First thing I ask Anthony is
"Are you allowed to touch someone's drink without their permission?"
"As far as I know, we can't take a drink from someone who doesn't ask us to"
"And how about my chips that are not being wagered?"
"Nope, if a bet is not placed we can't touch the chips when the person is still playing their hand"

I say "Thanks Anthony, you've been very helpful!"

So was this dealer acting unprofessionally and over extending her boundaries. Seemed to me like she was singling me out for every little thing and then started crossing the line by grabbing my drink and chips while I'm playing a hand. Her excuse was not "Just making sure you don't spill the drink" but rather "Just making sure you don't cheat!"

And putting her hand on top of the cup, potentially leaving germs inside the drink, and acting like it is acceptable for some reason. Just really got on my nerves, which seemed this dealer's purpose from the get go.

Anybody know if this is allowed, a dealer grabbing an alcoholic beverage from someone who is playing a hand?

Look, you are going to find great dealers and not so great dealers wherever you go, you know this I'm sure. Here is what I know.

1) Dealers are NEVER allowed to touch your chips that are not in play. If you move, fall off your chair, break your a** bone and go to the hospital, then it is the job of the floor supervisor to take care of your chips AFTER they have phoned Surveillance and told them that they will be doing so.
2) I have never in my life seen a dealer reach out across a table and touch a players drinks....NEVER. I mean even if a player is so fall down drunk that they can't help themselves then the Security officers will deal with the open alcohol. Dealers deal the game and protect the assets.
3) If the dealer felt as if your glass was preventing her from seeing your cards she should have informed you nicely (if possible) and told you about the impediment. If you refused to move it then she could always involve the floor but again, I have never seen players be that obstinent.

She may have been on a short leash because somebody got away with something on her game previously and she got written up for it. Now she has the attitude of "I'll show them....how dare they write me up".

I'm not sure of the best course of action to have taken at the time because really nobody on the other side of the rope would have helped you much unless you got a sypathetic floor or pit boss.

She is obviously bitter about something and above all that not a very nice person either!

On the first part, if you were not seated at the table or standing right at the chair I cannot believe a dealer would say anything as they are kind of taught their table is their life. During my stint in dealer school they told us not to really watch for cheating other than if you caught someone touching cheques after the game started or some other procedure violation. So she clearly has some issues.

As to moving the drink what I would guess is procedure is the dealer stops acting and politely asks that the drink be moved. Now this probably happens in a legit way 20 times a day. 99% of the time the player had no bad intentions and nobody even remembers other than next time they sit they may be more aware of where their drink should not be. We all as players we all make procedure mistakes from time to time, a sharp dealer treats all players as sharps with the first request then dumbs it down from there.

Some people get all crazy when they are "in charge" of no matter how small a part of the world they get to be in charge of. When I train party dealers I stress "control your table" so the game does not get out of hand. She seems to have gotten the wrong message from someone who told her that.

You should have spoken to the Floor.

if this played out exactly as you wrote it then why wouldnt you talk to the floor. For one, you probably paid $6 for the drink. Why should you have to pay for another. I would have spoken with the floor and had him replace the drink.

Also, if you were that unhappy right away why not just move to another table?

Sounds like a pretty shitty experience.

I think Tomspur may be on to something. That dealer may have some black marks in her file and is being extra cautious to the point of paranoia. That's a heck of a way to have to spend eight hours a day. Were there other players at the table and did any of them have a problem? Now Bedwetter, you weren't baiting her were you? Not even just a little? Even if you were she should have been trained to handle it properly and professionally. Regardless, she started it with the cell phone comment.

By all means speak to the floor but only to have him fetch the pit boss. A classy pit boss would apologize and write you a generous comp as a good will gesture.

Dealers, before you complain about poor tips, reign in these rogues. You all know who they are, the ones taking money out of your pockets, so police yourselves.

Quote: 1BB

Now Bedwetter, you weren't baiting her were you? Not even just a little? Even if you were she should have been trained to handle it properly and professionally.

Surely, the dealer over-reached (perhaps even literally) when she moved the drink and non-wagered chips. But, also, no casino anywhere allows players to hold their cards so far back that this would be an issue...

Hmmm...I think the dealer was going too far and being something of a martinet, and that could be for a few reasons. She could be inexperienced, could have been written up and just being spiteful or extra careful, or could just be a total rules...ahem, fascist.

#1: My rule of thumb with phones is that, if people need to use them, I ask them to step back. Two steps back is usually enough and I leave them alone, especially if there's no chance they're taking a picture. That was too far.

#2: We have rules about card placement. I can't speak for where your cards were, but if they were over the table and you were just ordering a drink, then I don't see a problem.

#3: I'm pretty loosey-goosey about card placement as long as all the hard-and-fast rules are being followed and I can see what you're doing. If you have them up near your face but I can see them and they're still over the edge of the table, I will assume you're nearsighted, not a cheater.

#4: If I close betting and people try to put out a buzzer-beater bet, I usually allow it unless they're just dicknozzles. I probably would have counted your bet so long as it doesn't affect the outcome in any way.

#5. That should have been an automatic write-up for that dealer. There are things we don't do and don't touch, including players' chips and possessions that are not being wagered.

The relief dealer, however, seemed to be pretty on the ball.

Honestly, if I hadn't made a nice profit from Blackjack earlier that day, I would have spoke to a floor person and had her written up. Which might be what this lady wanted all along, an excuse to be given a day off or permanent vacation?

For one, I don't want to bother with paper work or formal complaints that probably won't result in any type of benefit for me.

Sands PA, supposedly does not give out written/printed Comps to Table players on $5 - $15 dollar games or anywhere else I've seen. I'm sure they COULD add it on to my card, but I doubt they would. I think the most they would do is give me a voucher for a beverage, given the circumstance that occurred.

As for the dealer's attitude, if it was for one or two things that she had an issue. Fine, but this was seemingly every time I played a hand or did something this lady had a problem with it and had to scold me in front of the table. She paid NO attention to the other 5 players at the table and singled me out for whatever reason.

I let it slide the first few items, but when she starts accusing me of "taking the cards off the table" when they clearly were not. That is when I started being snarky back. And it was mostly sarcasm like "Yea, God forbid we actually win money" and things like that when she threw off the Pair Plus $10 bump bet claiming it was "too late". When in fact the cards had NOT been dealt.

I didn't call her any names or mock her accent(when I should have) to act like I can't understand her. And when someone playing at the table jokingly told me to "just play the hands blind so she won't get upset!" I retorted "Too late for that, THAT ship has sailed!"

Again, I just find it absurd that this person kept escalating her antics and used "The Rules" as a cop-out for her own agenda. At the end of the day I made an extra $150 at 3 card, coincidentally enough all of it came after Miss Nasty left.

So kharma seemed to shine on me for keeping my cool and THAT is more rewarding to me than filing a complaint and possibly helping her campaign to get whatever it is she was looking for.

As a Chief Shop Steward, I often had to defend some employees asinine behavior towards a customer. Hey, you pays your dues, or even not in a right-to-scab state, I gots to defend you.

In the outside world, my behavior is different. I have on several occasions not only filled out a comment card and/or emailed corporate.
Always got a reply and a comp of some sort. Had a friend who was a restaurant manager. Nice guy till he got pissed. When he got lousy service, he would write to call Corporate. Always got a card for comped meals, usually with me and Josie included. Ron had a collection of pens and would add drinks to the offer. LOL

Last beef at a casino was a guy playing all 7 spots at the Isle on a busy night. Not busy enough that all tables were open but busy. I had $10 to burn, so when he dropped to 4 spots, I bet 2 spots. He got all indignant and the dealer took his side and pushed my bets back. Yeah like betting $35 made him a whale with a private table.

While deciding how much trouble I wanted to start, the jerk had to go to ATM to get a refill with his GF trying to block me from the table. Just then I saw the nice kid who was the pit boss. He called me over and asked me be cool and he would work something out, even offered open a table for me. I let it go, but later at home got pissed again. Emailed Corporate, got 4 meals and a promise that in the future such things would not happen.

So if you want to complain, do it at corporate level. And I would name the dealer just so the whole staff does not get the heat.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

Was at Sands Casino in Bethlehem, PA today and incurred a very odd dealer who was seemingly trying to provoke a reaction from me.

She was a middle-aged woman of South East Asian descent, with a thick accent and dealing at Three Card Poker.

My friend was playing at the table, which was a $5 table, and I decided to join after doing some damage at a BJ table on the other side to the point I could play a carnival game with no real drain on my bottom line.

I waited to join and was literally standing 10 ft away from the table when Strike 1 against the Dealer occurred...

Strike 1) This lady starts hassling me for looking at my Iphone. I'm not playing at the table, literally standing far enough to have no affect on anyone. And my phone is pointed at the floor. But feels the need to holler in my direction about using the phone? Ok fine, I put the phone away and throw my cash on the table to kill some time.


Start the game with usual back and forth. Mediocre hands and the dealer doesn't qualify, some pushes and some small profits by bumping the Ante bet. As my pile slowly starts accumulating, I figure heck, I'll order a drink! The waitress comes over, a rather attractive young lady , who starts chatting with me as the dealer is placing the cards down. I pick up the cards, glance back at the waitress and say "Oh yea, I'll have a Jack and Coke..." And then...

Striiiiiiiike 2) Dealer goes "Surrr, you cahnt look at cahrds and face avay from tayble..." I say "So you expect me order a drink and not look at her?" She replies "Surr, dees is da rools. I am not vahnting trubble."

So a couple hands pass, and mostly folding with non-qualifying hands. I get my drink, have a sip and place it on the table next to my chips. Cards are dealt and I pick up my cards with both hands, pull them to the padding and look at them with my hands on the felt, keeping them within the confines of the table. The table is full and there isn't much room to put your elbows, but we manage well enough in the cramped space. That is until...

Striiiiiiiiike 3) "Please don't pull cahrds back so fahr"
I go "What? Are you serious??"
She retorts "Eets da rools, cahn't take cahrds off tayble"
I say "I didn't, maybe if you'd stop bothering me over nothing you'd realize it!"

I proceed to look at my cards which started nicely with King , Queen of Diamonds. Only for her distraction to practically ruin the third card being a 10 of diamonds. I play the hand, get paid, start counting my money contemplating whether or not to leave, but decide to press up the bet for the next hand well before the cards are out. At the same time, she's collecting everyone else's $1 chip for the Sucker...er I mean... Progressive Jackpot bet. Low and behold it's ....

Striiiike 4) This "professional" reaches on to my pair plus bet, and flings back the extra $10 I put on it, claiming "Tooo layte!" Sure enough I get a Pair of Kings, but honestly that wasn't the issue. It was this dealer just being a "Cee U Next Tuesday" for seemingly no reason.


And now the straw that broke the Camel's back. I take another sip of my drink, put the half full cup down and proceed to pick up my cards. As I'm looking at the cards...

Striiiiike 5) This dealer actually reaches across the table and puts her hand OVER MY DRINK and MOVES it along with my chip stack that was NOT in play!
I literally looked at her and said "What the hell are you doing!"
She protests " I cahn't see da cards behine da dahrink"
"And what gives you the right to touch my drink?"
She then says "I must follow de rules, you tahk to supervise if you have problem!"
"How about I talk to the health department and the gaming commission about a dealer holding an alcoholic drink?"

I take the drink throw it in the garbage and the lovely waitress from before returns soon after and I order another. Around the same time, the dealer goes on break and a young dealer named Anthony came in much to the relief of everyone.

First thing I ask Anthony is
"Are you allowed to touch someone's drink without their permission?"
"As far as I know, we can't take a drink from someone who doesn't ask us to"
"And how about my chips that are not being wagered?"
"Nope, if a bet is not placed we can't touch the chips when the person is still playing their hand"

I say "Thanks Anthony, you've been very helpful!"

So was this dealer acting unprofessionally and over extending her boundaries. Seemed to me like she was singling me out for every little thing and then started crossing the line by grabbing my drink and chips while I'm playing a hand. Her excuse was not "Just making sure you don't spill the drink" but rather "Just making sure you don't cheat!"

And putting her hand on top of the cup, potentially leaving germs inside the drink, and acting like it is acceptable for some reason. Just really got on my nerves, which seemed this dealer's purpose from the get go.

Anybody know if this is allowed, a dealer grabbing an alcoholic beverage from someone who is playing a hand?

Complain to the floor. Explain the situation, requesting a new dealer and demanding a new drink. In the alternative of a new dealer, request they mark you a spot at a different table. I do not undersand why you did not do this. Seems like common sense, everyone has had run-ins with unprofessional dealers and intolerable ploppies. A dealer may not grab a drink unless you set an empty or finished or abandoned one on the table for him to grab, or if he is attempting to prevent an imminent spill on the felt. Without an approved variance, the dealer's action is a food code violation. Technically, that's nothing illegal in and of itself...all you can do is complain about and possbly health inspectors will keep an eye out for it during their next routine inspection.

At Sands PA, they intentionally open a limited amount of tables during weekday afternoons.

They have been doing this for 3 years now, it causes people to hover around the tables and keep peeking over your shoulder to see if you're low on checks. Causing tension among players and creating an atmosphere of desperation.

This day, there were only 2 open tables for 3 CP and my buddy was sitting at this table. So just to keep him company I sat down and tried my luck for $5 stakes.

Would have had no problem if this dealer enforced these "Rules" on everyone else. but it was clear I was singled out and targeted by this unhappy camper. And sure enough, when the dealer left, the mood of the table improved greatly and everyone could breathe again!


**Update**

Saw this dealer again giving attitude to other patrons at a Casino War table game. One guy was sitting there placing some big bets and was overbetting the WAR wager. I don't know the odds on it or the limits, but the dealer said nothing until she actually had to pay him on it. He complained "You took the bet everytime I lost and NOW you're gonna say something because you finally pay me on it?"

Again she used her "Dees is da rools" argument. But the floor person came over and instructed her to pay the amount owed on it, and from now on he could not bet more than "XX" on the WAR wager.

A few minutes later, I heard another argument erupt. Two young, male patrons were also playing Casino War with Ms. Rules and were playing for a little while with no incident. However, when the "sidekick" of the two hit on the WAR wager the dealer suddenly decided to ask for ID. Which is something they are very strict on at Sands PA and if you look under 30, they ID you at the entrance. Which certainly happened to this fella.

But of course, the friend got upset and started yelling that "You didn't ask for ID the whole time you were taking his money. Now that he won you wanna see ID?" And promptly refused to let the young guy show his ID.

Not sure how that matter was resolved, but either way this dealer starts provoking people and tries to make a small problem into a big deal.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

A few minutes later, I heard another argument erupt. Two young, male patrons were also playing Casino War with Ms. Rules and were playing for a little while with no incident. However, when the "sidekick" of the two hit on the WAR wager the dealer suddenly decided to ask for ID. Which is something they are very strict on at Sands PA and if you look under 30, they ID you at the entrance. Which certainly happened to this fella.

But of course, the friend got upset and started yelling that "You didn't ask for ID the whole time you were taking his money. Now that he won you wanna see ID?" And promptly refused to let the young guy show his ID.

Not sure how that matter was resolved, but either way this dealer starts provoking people and tries to make a small problem into a big deal.

Should've said to this FOBer: "Listen sweetie, I don't ask to see your green card".

(I'm Asian BTW, and I hate nitpicking dealers like this. You are there to provide good customer service, not just to sling the f'ing paper.)

Re: Cheating at Sands Bethlehem- Bet-capping, past-posting, and other cheating methods are regular occurrences due to the busloads of immigrants from NYC that come in every day. I'm not surprised this dealer was wary of cheating, even at 3 Card Poker.

If you go on lehighvalleylive.com, it seems like every week some Chinese guy is locked up in the Northampton County prison in lieu of a $25,000 bail. In fact, in 2011, they were so short on court interpreters who could speak Mandarin and Cantonese that I considered applying for the job (with pays $80 an hour).

From what I've seen of "cheaters", they are escorted out by security and banned from playing at the casino. But I'm sure other places have less tolerance and press charges on the 1st offense.


But I don't see how I could actually cheat on 3 card poker when the progressive $1 bet is a light up bet, and the stakes on the pair plus are $5. Which is easy to tell from even far out as it is only 1 chip.

I'm convinced this dealer has some agenda of either giving a hard time to patrons because she has personal problems and has to project her anger out on others. Or she wants to be written up/fired to be either given a severance or moved off of table games(she only deals table games and never acts as Pit Boss) ahead of the normal procedure.


Either way, it's VERY unprofessional and makes the Sands in PA a less desirable casino, when it doesn't have to be.