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WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
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May 10th, 2012 at 7:24:44 AM permalink
Quote: WongBo

unscrupulous poker players, dishonest casino enterprises,
gee, i couldn't have seen that coming...



I dont see what the big deal is. Did they dupe you about the show? Not really.
I dont think you can blame the players in any way.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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May 10th, 2012 at 8:08:04 AM permalink
All this article does is repeat some rumours and has a quote or two from Mike Matsuw.

Shrug. Who cares? The topic is quite boring, like watching poker on TV is.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
bushman
bushman
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May 10th, 2012 at 8:41:40 AM permalink
Well, it all seems to me to make for "good television." I know I watched it, from time-to-time. I know they said that players brought with them "X" dollars. I don't recall them ever saying they put into action that money. It's "reality tv." I always kind of wondered why they would play against each other, when they could certainly have played against less prepared players and take their money. Of course, this surmises those other players had the bankroll. Just my 2 cents. Not too bothered by it all.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
MikeV
MikeV
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
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May 10th, 2012 at 9:14:25 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Full Tilt kept telling every one we segregate your deposits.



Actually, Full Tilt was never required to segregate the deposits.

www.fulltiltpoker.eu/terms-and-conditions

Quote: Full Tilt Poker Terms and Conditions Section 8.9

Customer funds are not segregated from company funds, but it is the intention of Vantage Ltd to meet its liabilities as they fall due.

Always look for opportunities.
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
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May 10th, 2012 at 9:54:53 AM permalink
Quote: bushman

Well, it all seems to me to make for "good television." I know I watched it, from time-to-time. I know they said that players brought with them "X" dollars. I don't recall them ever saying they put into action that money. It's "reality tv." I always kind of wondered why they would play against each other, when they could certainly have played against less prepared players and take their money. Of course, this surmises those other players had the bankroll. Just my 2 cents. Not too bothered by it all.



No matter how they were staked or bankrolled, they all got $13,000 an hour that was broadcast. If they did 8 hours, and only got on TV for 30 minutes, they were paid $6,500. They ran a lot pots twice or more to reduce the variance, nobody wanted to go home broke after getting a bad beat. They wanted good TV, some large pots, but basically go home with what they bought plus 13k an hour, which to be fair, is a great deal. People like Hellmuth and Negraneu are good for poker TV and I guess made more from the 13k an hour than others. You see some of the lesser known players turn up and play 3 hands all night, but you dont see them invited back.

You can slag off FullTilt all you want (and I think FullTilt were a poorly run company), but this 'product' achieved what it set out to very well in my opinion. Guys coming home from the pub, watching the TV, then blowing a few $$ on the computer before bed. Without the pros on TV you get less 'fish' attempting to become the next big thing on FullTilt, and without the fish donating the $$ you cant afford to pay the pros, or the TV crew or buy the TV time. This is the poker circle of life. As bad as FullTilt was, without them the poker landscape would be very different to what it is now. Massive damage has been done, by a very small number of individuals, but the world will get over it. I hope HTP, PAD and TheBigGame come back.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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May 10th, 2012 at 10:44:05 AM permalink
I always said it was a con job. In real life, pro
players never bet that kind of money against
other pro's in the same skill range as them,
its pointless. All they end up doing is trading
each others money back and forth.

Nobody used their own money, it was given to
them outside the set and they gave it back
when they left. They were there mostly for
camera face time, and to push their poker sites.
These guys make all their real money in back
room games with rich doctors from NY and
businessmen from all over the world. When
the rich guys lose they can brag at home that
a big star took his money so it was OK.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
Joined: May 5, 2010
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May 10th, 2012 at 2:20:58 PM permalink
Quote: MikeV

Actually, Full Tilt was never required to segregate the deposits.

www.fulltiltpoker.eu/terms-and-conditions



This is fascinating to me. I wonder when it was written into the terms and conditions. If it was an upfront rule, then prosecuting the business as a Ponzi scheme will be next to impossible, as players were "informed" of the way funds were handled. This would almost cross into lawsuit territory, based on when the rule was written and how many players are affected (meaning if you signed before this, you would have to be made aware of the terms). I don't think a simple "Our terms have changed" letter would work in this case.

I still believe the company was just poorly managed overall. However this changes my opinion of those in charge a little bit.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
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May 10th, 2012 at 2:32:50 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

All they end up doing is trading each others money back and forth.


What's wrong with that?
Trade money back and forth and get paid from, I've read a figure of $1,500 (but that was first season), up to, if WoE's post is accurate, an average of 13000*13*(0.25..0.75)/24=$3,000+ an hour... not a bad deal. Even for a top pro.

Also I agree the article is not very well substantiated.
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Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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May 10th, 2012 at 3:14:27 PM permalink
I only skimmed the thread, but High Stakes Poker was basically an infomercial. Airtime was bought and used to promote online poker with a few commercials scattered within. This was not a legitimate program purchased by GSN just like Poker After Dark on NBC was purchased by FTP. It was no different than people that buy airtime to promote their music, exercise program, or "You'll make so much money" scams. I thought this was widely known, maybe not. The WSOP is about the only poker programming that is a legitimate TV program.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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May 10th, 2012 at 3:28:44 PM permalink
Quote: P90

What's wrong with that?
.



In a private game, nothing. The games on
HST were filmed in 3 days, with 3 ten hour
sessions. Lots of people were scheduled
to play so you had people coming and going
all the time. If you lost a lot of money you
might not have a chance to win it back.
But they weren't playing with their own money.
It was really just another fake reality TV show.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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