Marketing a gambling book
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Such books are considered niche books and have limited appeal to the general book buying public. When a new book comes out and is made available, what would be the most effective way to generate interest and sales? Complimentary books would be available for review, so who would get those comp. volumes for review? Where would the author or publisher invest the advertising dollars to gain interest in the book and create a high volume of sales in the gambling community?
What other avenues are available to generate sales?
Comments please.
tuttigym
People DO judge a book by its cover. Especially the author's name. People tend to not buy books by people they have never heard of.
It is largely up to the publisher how hard to push your book. That is something you won't have much control over. For example, I have yet to see my book on a bookstore shelf, other than bookstores that specialize in gambling books. Thus, the low sales do not surprise me.
Offer the book for free to anyone who might write a review of it. A good start would be to search for sites that review gambling books, like mine.
I think an unknown name should view publishing a book more as a feather in the cap than for money-making reasons. I've heard one criteria to get a Wikipedia page is to be a published author.
tuttigym
Quote: WizardIt is largely up to the publisher how hard to push your book. That is something you won't have much control over. For example, I have yet to see my book on a bookstore shelf, other than bookstores that specialize in gambling books. Thus, the low sales do not surprise me.
Are you saying that you had no feedback into the marketing of your book? Did you ever have any specific advertising that targeted gambling markets? Did you invest funds specifically in the marketing w/o the publisher? Did you critique the publisher's marketing strategy? What kind of reviews did it receive? Could you have revised the volume to make it more appealing? With possibly thousands of potential customers from this site and the other sites, why such "low" sales?
It seems like you did not control the destiny of your work. Did the publisher give you an advance against future royalties so that the marketing made no difference to the possible outcome of sales?
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: WizardIt is largely up to the publisher how hard to push your book. That is something you won't have much control over. For example, I have yet to see my book on a bookstore shelf, other than bookstores that specialize in gambling books. Thus, the low sales do not surprise me.
Are you saying that you had no feedback into the marketing of your book? Did you ever have any specific advertising that targeted gambling markets? Did you invest funds specifically in the marketing w/o the publisher? Did you critique the publisher's marketing strategy? What kind of reviews did it receive? Could you have revised the volume to make it more appealing? With possibly thousands of potential customers from this site and the other sites, why such "low" sales?
It seems like you did not control the destiny of your work. Did the publisher give you an advance against future royalties so that the marketing made no difference to the possible outcome of sales?
tuttigym
I've been through the book marketing process. For some reasons I attract writers into my life. When you are a first-time author, you prepare your own marketing kit (very professional, 20-30 pages) and send that material as well as an early draft of the book itself to publishers for review. If the publishers like your material, they will contact you (eventually) and will make you an offer (which you negotiate) to publish your book based on the quality of the material. You may get an advance to complete the book, or they may offer you nothing until the material is complete. The advance is subtracted from your royalties. The size of the advance will be predicated based on their experience with selling books of the same type before and the quality of the material. They know that they cannot recover the advance so they will only offer as much of an advance as they are certain they will recover.
Authors normally have absolutely no control of the material once it gets into the publisher's hands, and you must supply the publisher with a final copy of your book by the deadline specified in the contract. You then go through a very rigorous editing process with the publisher. All of your rights (very few) and all of their rights (very many) are spelled out in the contract you sign. Since you are an author, the publisher will market your book, control its publication date, figure out how many copies it will print and how it will sell the book. It is their dime and their reputation on the line after all and they have about a million times more experience than any individual author. Even if your book makes it to a bookshelf, you may see between 10-20% of the selling price of the book as your royalty.
If you want to get your book individually published however, you can simply put it together in your preferred format, and market it online yourself. My wife has been successful in that way selling via EBay to a very small, niche market. I would not go with a simple format however that can be copied and distributed freely. I would actually wait for payment and send physical copies of your "book". You can sell it for much less than a publisher and can control the marketing process and deliver better value to the customer that way, though you won't sell as many books.
Good luck.
Quote: boymimboIf you want to get your book individually published however, you can simply put it together in your preferred format, and market it online yourself. My wife has been successful in that way selling via EBay to a very small, niche market. I would not go with a simple format however that can be copied and distributed freely. I would actually wait for payment and send physical copies of your "book". You can sell it for much less than a publisher and can control the marketing process and deliver better value to the customer that way, though you won't sell as many books.
Interesting. As an aside, has your wife (or any of the other authors you have worked with) tried the print-on-demand services out there such as lulu.com?
Quote: tuttigym
Are you saying that you had no feedback into the marketing of your book? Did you ever have any specific advertising that targeted gambling markets? Did you invest funds specifically in the marketing w/o the publisher? Did you critique the publisher's marketing strategy? What kind of reviews did it receive? Could you have revised the volume to make it more appealing? With possibly thousands of potential customers from this site and the other sites, why such "low" sales?
It seems like you did not control the destiny of your work. Did the publisher give you an advance against future royalties so that the marketing made no difference to the possible outcome of sales?
When my book was first published my publisher, Huntington Press, and I had conversations about how the book would be marketed. However, I think it came out at a bad time, and they had bigger things on their minds than my book. I did not have any leverage to get them to do much. They probably wanted to feel out initial sales before deciding on how hard to market the book, and initial sales did not go well.
If I wanted to invest my own money to push the book that probably could have been done, but nobody ever raised the idea. I don't want to blame the poor sales entirely on the publisher. There are dozens of other similar books, so I was fighting for a piece of a very crowded market. No, I did not get an advance. I think you need to be pretty big to get one of those. Struggling authors are lucky to find a publisher at all. Every other publisher of gambling books rejected my manuscript, and they knew it, so I had little bargaining power in the terms. I was happy to be published at all, and still am.
Quote: stephenInteresting. As an aside, has your wife (or any of the other authors you have worked with) tried the print-on-demand services out there such as lulu.com?
Nope. I'll have her check it out next time she has something to sell.
Quote: Wizard
If I wanted to invest my own money to push the book that probably could have been done, but nobody ever raised the idea. I don't want to blame the poor sales entirely on the publisher. There are dozens of other similar books, so I was fighting for a piece of a very crowded market. No, I did not get an advance. I think you need to be pretty big to get one of those. Struggling authors are lucky to find a publisher at all. Every other publisher of gambling books rejected my manuscript, and they knew it, so I had little bargaining power in the terms. I was happy to be published at all, and still am.
My wife back was a technical writer back in the 90s and was hired to write some of the "Idiot's guide" series books. In those cases, they pay you a flat rate with no royalties.
It took about 80 attempts to find a publisher for my friend's 'medical' book. She did get an advance, and she only had one suitor as well. The book was on a very popular topic and the market for these books, like the gambling market, is pretty well saturated. I am not sure how well the book actually did.
My feeling is that if you do embark on a career in writing (or anything for that matter), you would do it for the love of the craft or the love of the subject, not for the money. If you want to make money in writing, try journalism instead. Otherwise, I think there is a great deal of luck involved... (kind of like gambling).
Quote: boymimbo
My feeling is that if you do embark on a career in writing (or anything for that matter), you would do it for the love of the craft or the love of the subject, not for the money. If you want to make money in writing, try journalism instead. Otherwise, I think there is a great deal of luck involved... (kind of like gambling).
I agree. While I don't profess to be an expert at the writing profession, I know a lot of people who have written gambling books, and I don't think any of them derive much of an income from them. As you said, writing should be for the love of the craft, and/or a way of self promotion.
Quote: boymimboQuote: tuttigymQuote: WizardIt is largely up to the publisher how hard to push your book. That is something you won't have much control over. For example, I have yet to see my book on a bookstore shelf, other than bookstores that specialize in gambling books. Thus, the low sales do not surprise me.
Are you saying that you had no feedback into the marketing of your book? Did you ever have any specific advertising that targeted gambling markets? Did you invest funds specifically in the marketing w/o the publisher? Did you critique the publisher's marketing strategy? What kind of reviews did it receive? Could you have revised the volume to make it more appealing? With possibly thousands of potential customers from this site and the other sites, why such "low" sales?
It seems like you did not control the destiny of your work. Did the publisher give you an advance against future royalties so that the marketing made no difference to the possible outcome of sales?
tuttigymQuote: boymimboI've been through the book marketing process. For some reasons I attract writers into my life. When you are a first-time author, you prepare your own marketing kit (very professional, 20-30 pages) and send that material as well as an early draft of the book itself to publishers for review. If the publishers like your material, they will contact you (eventually) and will make you an offer (which you negotiate) to publish your book based on the quality of the material. You may get an advance to complete the book, or they may offer you nothing until the material is complete. The advance is subtracted from your royalties. The size of the advance will be predicated based on their experience with selling books of the same type before and the quality of the material. They know that they cannot recover the advance so they will only offer as much of an advance as they are certain they will recover.
Authors normally have absolutely no control of the material once it gets into the publisher's hands, and you must supply the publisher with a final copy of your book by the deadline specified in the contract. You then go through a very rigorous editing process with the publisher. All of your rights (very few) and all of their rights (very many) are spelled out in the contract you sign. Since you are an author, the publisher will market your book, control its publication date, figure out how many copies it will print and how it will sell the book. It is their dime and their reputation on the line after all and they have about a million times more experience than any individual author. Even if your book makes it to a bookshelf, you may see between 10-20% of the selling price of the book as your royalty.
If you want to get your book individually published however, you can simply put it together in your preferred format, and market it online yourself. My wife has been successful in that way selling via EBay to a very small, niche market. I would not go with a simple format however that can be copied and distributed freely. I would actually wait for payment and send physical copies of your "book". You can sell it for much less than a publisher and can control the marketing process and deliver better value to the customer that way, though you won't sell as many books.
Thanks for the great, valuable, and specific information. I really want to control the content and my rights, so my personal investigation has led me to self-publishing. Making money out of it would be great, but I realistically believe that I would be satisfied with some modest success. It should be fun and I envision my initial investment to be less than $7,500 including advertising, 1,000 printed volumes, fees (copyright, etc), and domain interests.
Again, thanks for the feedback.
tuttigym
Quote: WizardQuote: tuttigym
Are you saying that you had no feedback into the marketing of your book? Did you ever have any specific advertising that targeted gambling markets? Did you invest funds specifically in the marketing w/o the publisher? Did you critique the publisher's marketing strategy? What kind of reviews did it receive? Could you have revised the volume to make it more appealing? With possibly thousands of potential customers from this site and the other sites, why such "low" sales?
It seems like you did not control the destiny of your work. Did the publisher give you an advance against future royalties so that the marketing made no difference to the possible outcome of sales?Quote: WizardWhen my book was first published my publisher, Huntington Press, and I had conversations about how the book would be marketed. However, I think it came out at a bad time, and they had bigger things on their minds than my book. I did not have any leverage to get them to do much. They probably wanted to feel out initial sales before deciding on how hard to market the book, and initial sales did not go well.
If I wanted to invest my own money to push the book that probably could have been done, but nobody ever raised the idea. I don't want to blame the poor sales entirely on the publisher. There are dozens of other similar books, so I was fighting for a piece of a very crowded market. No, I did not get an advance. I think you need to be pretty big to get one of those. Struggling authors are lucky to find a publisher at all. Every other publisher of gambling books rejected my manuscript, and they knew it, so I had little bargaining power in the terms. I was happy to be published at all, and still am.
Thanks for the candid background info. It will help.
tuttigym
Quote: DJTeddyBearAm I the only person here who finds it interesting / scary that the person asking about writing a gambling book is the same person who believes the 1.41% is a hoax?
It is BEYOND scary. Besides look at all the interest I have "created." Maybe there will be others who might benefit from such "controversy." One never knows, do they? Kinda like that ramdom, dice have no memory, "average" Rule of 495.
as goat would say, Cheers,
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: DJTeddyBearAm I the only person here who finds it interesting / scary that the person asking about writing a gambling book is the same person who believes the 1.41% is a hoax?
It is BEYOND scary. Besides look at all the interest I have "created." Maybe there will be others who might benefit from such "controversy." One never knows, do they? Kinda like that ramdom, dice have no memory, "average" Rule of 495.
as goat would say, Cheers,
tuttigym
The "interest" you have created is somewhere around a dozen people, and it is all negative.
Seriously, you would be better off and have more profitability setting up a website and using clickthrough links to generate income.
Quote: MoscaQuote: tuttigymQuote: DJTeddyBearAm I the only person here who finds it interesting / scary that the person asking about writing a gambling book is the same person who believes the 1.41% is a hoax?
It is BEYOND scary. Besides look at all the interest I have "created." Maybe there will be others who might benefit from such "controversy." One never knows, do they? Kinda like that ramdom, dice have no memory, "average" Rule of 495.
as goat would say, Cheers,
tuttigymQuote: MoscaThe "interest" you have created is somewhere around a dozen people, and it is all negative.
Negative? How so? Believe it or not, you all have helped me crystalize some of my thoughts, and that is a good thing. Many of you lost their cool and diminished your "standing." I have enjoyed the interaction, and I found nothing truly negative in the interest created. Being challenged and responding in an intellectual way (for the most part), is, for me always positive.Quote: MoscaSeriously, you would be better off and have more profitability setting up a website and using clickthrough links to generate income.
How about that - positive re-enforcement with a constructive idea to increase the possibility of success. Thanks, Mosca. BTW, it is being worked on as we grow.
tuttigym
Quote: boymimboI actually see Tutti's book being successful (if his thesis is as he writes) as an online publication as there are always people looking for gambling systems. Maybe a price point of $10 + shipping and handling ($5) for a printed copy.
Thank you boymimbo - more positive feedback and more creative and constructive ideas. Believe it or not, this forum has made me revise some entries in the book and is currently being re-edited to include some real clarity and the additional education garnered here. If success comes, it will be partially your fault. Thanks again,
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymIf success comes, it will be partially your fault.
Does that mean we get a cut?
Quote: WizardWhen my book was first published my publisher, Huntington Press, and I had conversations about how the book would be marketed. However, I think it came out at a bad time, and they had bigger things on their minds than my book. I did not have any leverage to get them to do much. They probably wanted to feel out initial sales before deciding on how hard to market the book, and initial sales did not go well.
If I wanted to invest my own money to push the book that probably could have been done, but nobody ever raised the idea. I don't want to blame the poor sales entirely on the publisher. There are dozens of other similar books, so I was fighting for a piece of a very crowded market. No, I did not get an advance. I think you need to be pretty big to get one of those. Struggling authors are lucky to find a publisher at all. Every other publisher of gambling books rejected my manuscript, and they knew it, so I had little bargaining power in the terms. I was happy to be published at all, and still am.
I spoke with Mason Malmuth a few years back about publishing gaming books. He informed me that the average sales for a gambling book was between 200 and 300 copies. I fully believe him. All one has to do is walk into the Gambler's Bookstore to see he is right.
--Dorothy
Quote: CroupierDoes that mean we get a cut?
No, but I will mention that knowledgeable and craps savvy people who know the math of craps helped to contribute to the validity of my thesis. It should allow some of you to puff out your collective egos. If you buy the book, you might be able to spot the contributions. As far as naming names, some might want to sue for libel or some such thing.
tuttigym
p.s. Wizard: The improvements to this sight are truly classy -- thanks. t
Quote: DorothyGaleI spoke with Mason Malmuth a few years back about publishing gaming books. He informed me that the average sales for a gambling book was between 200 and 300 copies. I fully believe him. All one has to do is walk into the Gambler's Bookstore to see he is right.
--Dorothy
How does he pay the rent or even make a living??
tuttigym
Quote: T
How does he pay the rent or even make a living??
We have already determined you are a troll. 'Nuff said.
--Dorothy
